From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:12 AM To: mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: (Fwd) Adrenal LIst #10 Forwarded message: From: Self To: @SENDLIST.PML Subject: Adrenal LIst #10 Reply-to: Lynn McIntosh Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:23:11 Hi to new member Brian! LMc Adrenal LIst #11, dated May 12, 1997 1. Timmy's tonic post 2. Pet tinic/taste test post 3. Depoprovera 4. Vet doing Right side Adrenal surgeries 5. Depoprovera 6. Shadow,Rascal,Bandit,Odie,Hope,Kyle,Mischief; Prostate prob; Depo-Provera 1. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 18:19:41 -0700 From: Gary Holowicki To: mjanke@bridge.ne Subject: Timmy's tonic post From: "Michael F. Janke" Subject: Article/Timmy's tonic post > From: Gary Holowicki > I have just connected with a company that has six generations of > herbal formulation experience & have sent out the first bottles of Timmy's > Tonic (yea!) Is this and "Timmy's recipe" one in the same? And where would this be available? For the ferrets, Mike --------------- Hi Mike; No, Timmy's recipe supplies food to live as long as necessary & things I've picked up on to help healing & general health. The Tonic is a suppliment that has a lot of strengthening and healing things , but is not food enough to survive on. Timmy's tonic is as close as we can get to duplicating the origional Chei Shei I used with Timmy long ago. By adding a red clover formula, from a seperate bottle, it seems to cover the bases with a couple of extras. The tonic is in a base of clover honey, so I just put the two in some warm water & it's like a magnet drawing takers. It's really funny to watch the first time they have it.. Bunny sniffed, drank some, licked her "lips", drank more, went to food, went back & drank more, a total of nine times. Since she's by herself, I saw the maby 1/2 cup lasted her over two days, which was good as I didn't want her to over do it, either, if there can be such a thing. WHen TImmy was going thru the mmonths of healing, the herbal tonic in water was the only thing he'd have on his own. I hand fed him off the tip of a feeder syringe for over 5 months. The first solid food he ate was Whiskas' Kit Nips. This helped his coat within 2 weeks, & then I read the lable carefully, & found it had 5 animal protein sources! It still is one thing the guys have to choose from the 6-7 different foods they eat. Since it's coming directly from the company & they want to talk many cases per order, I guess I've been elected to do the mailing out of them. The going rate for the Chei Shei was $30/btl. (in1994), & they are selling the Rid Clover for $25/btl. I will be able to sell both for $25/btl, or a six pac at $20/btl. that saves shipping & handling. I decided to make a "starter pac" price of two bottles of Timmy's Tonic & one btl. of the Red Clover formula for $60, plus shipping. A Chei Shei "clone" is supoosed to be selling for $35-55/btl.! I thought if there's enough demand it might be in stores or thru vets, but on the other hand, that adds to the cost, etc.. so I'm not going to persue that unless I just can't keep up some day. I don't seek to make a living off this, just help as many ferrets & their owners as possible. I know thru Timmy's ordeal how hard it is when your small child is very sick, & how great it is when they are all better:) Gary & the gang of fur -> Thru joining, their grief has been transmuted to joy, loneliness to celebration... ..Data, in "The Tin Man" episode, STNG. 2. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 22:35:43 -0400 From: "Michael F. Janke" Timmy's tonic post Subject: pet tinic/taste test post > From: Barbara Gustafson > To: Gary Holowicki > I have accumulated all the ingredients (mostly) and I've mixed up the brew. > I found it tastes quite yummy up till you add the kelp stuff at which > point it tasted like seaweed. Well at least I'm not alone in taste testing everything I give my ferrets! My wife gives me strange looks when I taste stuff, and I think even other ferret people in the club think it a bit odd. I figure if it's medicine or food for them, it won't kill me and I like to know how they will like/hate it. > 1) Pet Tinic liquid vitamins - my vet thought substituting 1/8 tablet I'm surprised your vet doesn't have this stuff. I thought it was pretty common. It is a vitamin supplement and I can give you the ingredients if you need 'em. My vet had me give a good dose of it daily for 14 days to Beasley when he was a blood donor. Lots of iron in it, among other things. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke - mjanke@bridge.net * Member, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * Editor, SFFCR's Ferret Footnotes Newsletter * Webmaster, SFFCR's web site * * Shelter Website - http://www.bridge.net/~mjanke 3. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 09:54:51 -0600 From: Troy Lynn Eckart Subject: Depoprovera Lynn - Depoprovera (I think that's the name - our vet refers to Dep) can be given to take away the male assertiveness. Petey had a shot and he's been fine ever since. Hugs. tle 4. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 11:43:47 -0400 From: Dave and Pam Taynor Subject: Vet doing Right side Adrenal surgeries Hi Everyone, We just got back from Rikki's 5 day checkup after adrenal surgery (right side, ligating the vena cava). The vet said he looked great and his insides sounded good too. This vet has done 4 right-side adrenal surgeries in the last few months. Pouka's was the first, and he came down from Virginia (we are in central North Carolina). Rogue was next, then Rikki, and most recently Baby, who is now adrenal-less (Her left had been taken out several months ago, but the symptoms continued). This vet will be doing one more this week. So far all 4 ferrets are doing fine! The vet is writing a paper on the procedure and these 5 ferrets (hoping the 5th surgery goes well). He too had been told that ferrets could not survive the vena cava being tied off, but performed the first surgery because it was a case of the ferret was going to die soon anyway if nothing was done. With 4 sucesses he feels that others need to be informed. Hopefully once the paper is written, other vets will have something to go by, if they too attempt this surgery. Pam Taynor 5. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 10:36:02 -0600 From: Troy Lynn Eckart Subject: Re: Depoprovera We haven't read nor heard nor had any prostate problems thus far. Petey is doing just fine. Rick White of SAFE uses it on the real problem ferrets, sparingly of course. The problem is that it increases appetite. (my estogen does too so I know how that goes) Petey was skinny so I'm pleased to see him eat 2 plates of recipe at a feeding. I actually have to not give him more as I'm sure he'd go for a third plate. Petey is growing hair!!!! It is in a very strange pattern but growing it he is. Yep, very busy with Kodo. I faxed 200 pages of data to his vet on Saturday. Took 3 hours. She was frazzled too as she had no idea what she was asking for. Heck, I didn't get my title for nothing (national rabies information coordinator). ;-) Hugs to all. tle 6. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 17:04:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Ferretlesa@aol.com Subject: Shadow,Rascal,Bandit,Odie,Hope,Kyle,Mischief;Prostate prob;Depo-Provera Hi everyone! This is a short (I hope) synopsis of all the adrenal ferrets that I have personal knowledge of, but please understand that because I am a shelter, there are at least 12 - 20 ferrets that I will not cover in this list because they were single adrenalectomy ferrets in unremarkable cases. Shadow - MF, female,rescue. Had adrenalectomy at age 4 on the right side - vet actually admitted after the fact that he had nicked the vena cava and had to seal the cut. Shadow came down with ECE approximately 6 months afterwords and had liver/kidney dysfunction that caused her to be jaundiced (and I mean she was ORANGE/RED!!!) Recovered from jaundice and approximately 1 year later, was diagnosed with insulinoma. Surgery was not successful, and she died as a result of surgery. Rascal - MF, female,rescue. Had adrenalectomy at age 2 1/2 - 3. We actually waited to do the surgery, as she would go through cycles of hairloss and swelling (as we put it, "you can't put the volvo in the garage"). Finally did the surgery and removed the left adrenal gland - tests came back malignant. Rascal is currently going to turn 7 with no recurrance of adrenal disease. Bandit - MF, female, rescue. Had symptoms of insulinoma first, (at age 5 1/2 - 6) being treated for 6 months when the distinctive hairloss/swelling patterns began. Made the decision to do surgery for both - tumors removed from both sides and no nodes found on pancreas - although the pancreas crumbled when being examined. She died 4 days after surgery. Odie - MF, male, rescue. Had adrenalectomy at age 3 1/2 - left side removed, most of right, had lost almost all of his hair.Began having problems with adrenals again within 1 year - treated with Lysodren for 3 months - initially a success, and his hair did grow back but currently scheduled for another surgery, due to problems/complications of adnenals, and his hair loss has begun again. Hope - MF, female, rescue. Picked up from SPCA. Turned in by owner to be put to sleep - picked up in the following condition: no hair except on face, feet and a sprinkle across shoulders; 5 mast cell tumors located all over her body;cataracts in both eyes;covered in fleas & filth;deformed back feet and no muscletone in back/legs because in a cage all the time;suffering from both advanced adrenals and insulinoma. Age was approximately 6 - 7. (BTW, she went through ECE just fine) Decided to remove mast cell tumors first, since most were bleeding. Sailed through surgery. Then did surgery for both adrenal/insulinoma - all of left and most of right adrenal removed, too many nodes to count on pancreas - took the largest. Had trouble recovering from surgery, but came back ok. Hair never regrew and in fact, continued to lose hair until all she had was her face and feet. Being treated with both Prednisolone and Proglycem for insulinoma, no treatment for adrenal. Died at age 7 -8 of old age/insulinoma. Mischief - non-MF, female, rescue. Approximately 3 years old - symptomatic for adrenals loss of hair and swelling. Currently waiting on surgery. Kyle - non-MF, male, rescue. Surgery for adrenals delayed due to more pressing issues - swollen lymph nodes and bleeding ears - removed the inner lining of right ear and sewed ear shut. Monitored nodes for possible lymphosarcoma, but to date not diagnosed (asymptomatic). Kyle has also had a large (3 inches) fibrous mass removed from his left side, which tested unremarkable and non malignant. Waited one month after his ear surgery to do adrenal surgery, at this point had lost all the hair surrounding his tail and was losing a stripe up his spine. Surgery removed both adrenal glands. Recovered from surgery well and was under no medication. To date, Kyle is taking no medication, and is doing quite well. I had observed a 2 week period about 4 weeks after surgery in which he seemed to be suffering from insulinoma (lethargy, trouble walking, lack of appetite) and took to the vet. Blood chemistry panel came back ok on BG (fasting was 82), but pointed out lots of other areas of concern. Monitoring him closely, but seems to be back to normal. Hair completely regrew within 8 weeks, including the wound area. Now, my opinion - I have a 100% hit rate on diagnosing my own adrenal ferrets without the panel test - as a rescue, I can not afford to do the test ($70.00 each time). My best method of determining adrenals, especially in the males is this: the ferret smells and acts like a whole ferret! My informal diagnosis on that is that the hyperactive adrenal gland causes the ferret to release hormones as if the animal is in heat/rut - that would explain the swollen vulva and odor in the females, and the odor and aggressiveness in the males. Whether or not there is any scientific data to support this, I can't say - but so far this has worked for me, even BEFORE the ferret began exhibiting symptoms of adrenals. In the cases of Rascal, Bandit and Mischief, I began watching them for signs 3 - 6 months before the hairloss/swelling, simply because they started to have a stronger than normal odor. In Mischief's case, I was concerned that she was a botched spay, since she had distinctive scar tissue from being altered. I hope that this information helps, and if any information is needed on any of these ferrets, please email me. I can get more info on Kyle's blood chemistry panel if needed, I just don't remember all of the details! Sorry if this is long, I did try to be brief!! Prostate problem: I had a ferret that was released back to me, due to a large swelling in the abdomen, and the owners were unable to afford surgery. I took the ferret to the vet and determined the swelling was the bladder. Surgery was scheduled, and the bladder was swollen and the ferret constantly dribbling urine because a tumor in the abdomen had wrapped around the urethra, cutting off the ability to urinate normally. The tumor was removed, but unfortunately for the ferret, the people had waited too long and the ferret did not survive the surgery. It is possible that a tumor, even adrenal tumor, may be causing a lookalike prostate problem in the males. As far as using depo-provera, I don't like it. I was talked into using it on an aggressive ferret to help her get along with other ferrets, and for what I saw it do to her, I am deeply ashamed. She became a walking zombie -like on valium! Very unresponsive to stimuli, she gained 3/4 of a pound, she violently reacted to sounds (very easily startled) and did nothing for her aggressiveness! I will never consider using it again. I do not recommend it for ferrets, although some people have seen good results from it. The effects finally wore off after 8 months, but she has never been the same. Hope all of this helps! Happy Ferreting! Lisa -----------------------End of Ferret Digest #11---------------------------