From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:12 AM To: mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: (Fwd) Adrenal List #11 Forwarded message: From: Self To: @SENDLIST.PML,@SENDLIST.PML Subject: Adrenal List #11 Reply-to: Lynn McIntosh Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:29:45 Hi there! *Welcome* to new members Brian Schmidt, Dr. Karen Purcell, DVM, and Patricia (Trish) Curtis - and I hope I didn't leave anyone out (getting closer to getting that new computer, and software that will make the list a tad easier to manage!) Nice to have another ferret-interested vet on the list and thank you for taking the time to join, Dr. Karen. Most of you will recognize Trish from her shelter work. Try and remember to write "post" at the end of your subject lines when you send me posts, please. And Michael J., I'm still getting an answer on posting Dr. Cathy Johnson-Delaney's article to your web site, and I'm asking in general if people can use it for non-profit shelter purposes with proper credit given to the publication Seattle-King County Vet Med. Assoc. newsletter "VetRap". Will let you know as soon as I can, though I doublt she'll mind, but it's always good to ask. Hugs to all your fuzzies. I just matched a well-loved fuzzy whose fuzz-dad was going to college and couldn't keep him anymore :( with a neat woman whose ferret needed a companion. It sure felt good... though I sure was sad thinking of that young man giving up his special ferret, and he was clearly hurting. But it was a happy ending for the fuzzy and new mom and friend :) Thoughts and prayers for Kodo tonight! Lynn Adrenal List #11, dated May 15, 1997 1. Depoprovera 2. NC Rogue is doing well! 3. Adrenal Females 4. Reply: Adrenal Females 5. Update on Baby 6. Prostate problems - Baytrill POST 7. Reply: Adrenal Females 8. FML Post: Ferret Prostate Update on Antony 9. FML Post: Vet Answers: Update on Antony 10. Marshall Farms 11. Ovaban for Male Agression? 1. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 10:36:02 -0600 From: Troy Lynn Eckart Subject: Re: Depoprovera We haven't read nor heard nor had any prostate problems thus far. Petey is doing just fine. Rick White of SAFE uses it on the real problem ferrets, sparingly of course. The problem is that it increases appetite. (my estogen does too so I know how that goes) Petey was skinny so I'm pleased to see him eat 2 plates of recipe at a feeding. I actually have to not give him more as I'm sure he'd go for a third plate. Petey is growing hair!!!! It is in a very strange pattern but growing it he is. Yep, very busy with Kodo. I faxed 200 pages of data to his vet on Saturday. Took 3 hours. She was frazzled too as she had no idea what she was asking for. Heck, I didn't get my title for nothing (national rabies information coordinator). ;-) Hugs to all. tle 2. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 09:08:18 -0400 (EDT) From: ShariDiane@aol.com Subject: NC Rogue is doing well! NOTE from LMc: Not having kept up terribly well on the FML I grew worried that this Rogue (who had a vena cava ligation a while back) had passed away and wrote Shari, but no, he's doing very well. Go Rogue! LMc No, no, no, no, no. The recent FML Rogue that passed on was a male. Our local Rogue is a 3yo albino female, doing quite well. She won the Paper Bag Escape at the club's annual Ferret Fun Frolic last Saturday with a time of 6.51 seconds! Another local ferret, Baby, had her left adrenal removed in January. Dr. Dan Hudson (same vet) completely removed the right gland last Thursday. All is well. Dr. Hudson does not believe in Lysodren. Baby will be getting monthly cortisone shots. I emailed Barb Gestaphson (sp?) yesterday about it. Shari Newsletter Editor Triangle Ferret Lovers club, NC http://www.trifl.org 3.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:02:27 -0600 From: Barbara Gustafson Cc: Lynn Mcintosh Subject: Re: Adrenal females Lynn, I read you post in Adrenal post #10. I would like a little advise regarding my ferret Tippie. She had her left adrenal removed 1 1/2 years ago at age 2. Her hair never grew back. Since then she is constantly scratching, is always hot to the touch, her hair is thinning all over and is losing it off her back. She also gets red looking skin around her neck. Her vulva could be swollen but I'm not sure as I have nothing to base it on. In February of this year she underwent exploratory surgery for a possible tumor on the right side but nothing was found. I'm almost positive these symptoms are adrenal related. My question is this. Do you think I should ask my vet to remove the right adrenal even though no tumor was present? I have heard that in a few cases the tumor could be inside the gland. I'm at my wits end as to what to do to help her at this stage and maybe I'm grasping at straws but I don't know what else could be causing this. 4.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:11:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: Barbara Gustafson Subject: Reply: Adrenal females On Tue, 13 May 1997, Barbara Gustafson wrote: Hi there Barbara. > Lynn, > > I read you post in Adrenal post #10. I would like a little advise > regarding my ferret Tippie. > She had her left adrenal removed 1 1/2 years ago at age 2. Her hair never > grew back. > Since then she is constantly scratching, is always hot to the touch, her > hair is thinning all over and is losing it off her back. She also gets red > looking skin around her neck. Her vulva could be swollen but I'm not sure > as I have nothing to base it on.. How hairless is Tippie? Is it the tail (sorry; this is probably in a Adrenal List somewhere). From the symptoms, it sounds like abnormal adrenal tissue is still present. Are you acquainted with any breeders? They could tell you if the vulva is swollen. In a spayed female the vulva shouldn't be a visually prevelant organ, but pretty much flush with the rest of the area. When it's swollen, it looks like lips pursing out (sorry I couldn't think of a better analogy). > In February of this year she underwent exploratory surgery for a possible > tumor on the right side but nothing was found. > I'm almost positive these symptoms are adrenal related. > My question is this. Do you think I should ask my vet to remove the right > adrenal even though no tumor was present? I have heard that in a few cases > the tumor could be inside the gland. > I'm at my wits end as to what to do to help her at this stage and maybe I'm > grasping at straws but I don't know what else could be causing this. Dr. Kawasaki welcomes consults from vets and I'll be happy to repost his phone number. He told me he's done more than 1,000 adrenal surgeries! I would trust my ferrets to him in a heartbeat, but he's in Virginia. Have your vet call him; he's very friendly and either comes to the phone or you get a phone appointment with him. Why not have your vet give him a call? I think we're going to have an ultrasound done on Percy before going in to remove the right adrenal. Our vet thought both adrenals looked pretty normal, but took part of the right and Percy's hair grew back, though he's still got thinning hair (expecially on shoulders, with spotted red skin), frequent urinating, and male agressiveness. A vet forum where slides were shone visualizing the normal adrenals and abnormal adrnenals would be of great interest to me! Let me know if you need Dr. K's phone numbers. I've thought of asking my vet to remove Percy's right adrenal, but then I think he should decide. I asked Dr. K about what my doc was recommending re: medication for stemming the current symtoms, but Dr. K. doesn't used interim meds; he does surgery. My vet says a slight deviation in surgical technique can make a difference how much tissue is removed, but that not all the right will be completely removed. When both adrenals are removed Dr. K. says there is some ectopic adrenal tissue that serves the purpose of the adrenals. Why this tissue isn't diseased, if it isn't, I don't know. It sounds like Dr. K. gets most or all of the right adrenal. As my vet says, there are more questions than answers, and a lot more opinions than questions.... *sigh* Percy needs some relief too, and I suspect is will come from the removal of his right adrenal. Take Care Barbara and have your vet give Dr. K. a call! Lynn Mc. & the Gang of 8 5. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 09:49:01 -0400 (EDT) From: ShariDiane@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Update on Baby (Adrenal) Lynn: Info on female named Baby in North Carolina that had left gland removed in January and right removed in May.... Shari Gunter --------------------- Forwarded message: From: DUNN@pairgain.com Sender: owner-trifl@mindforge.com To: trifl@mindforge.com Date: 97-05-14 09:09:14 EDT Well Its been 5 days since Baby's right adrenal surgery and she's doing great. Her surgery was on Friday and we picked her up Saturday. As soon as we got her home she was ready to explore and play although we kept this to a minimum. Last night she was up to her old tricks like hunting kitties (they liked it better when Baby wasn't feeling good) and nipping toes. Baby in on two different medications, prednisone and florines. Both are liquids and are given at a rate of 0.5cc/ml per day. She has to take these every day for the rest of her life so we have already started trying to experiment by mixing with ferretone. She definitely doesn't like us shooting the stuff down her throat with a surgine. Thanks for everybodies concern and we'll keep TriFL updated as to her recovery. I can't wait until the little bugger grows some hair and the vulva goes down. Anyone got any ideas on how long I can expect to wait? Later. *************************************** Jim Dunn Staff Engineer Raleigh Design Center E-mail: dunn@pairgain.com Phone: (919) 875-3341 Fax: (919) 876-1817 *************************************** 6.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 14 May 1997 15:59:55 -0000 From: dervish@scrye.com Subject: Prostate problems - Baytrill POST I saw this on the FML and felt it belonged on this list. Update on Nickodemus: He's not had any discharges for three weeks and is now off the Amoxicillin which did seem to help. Now we wait and pray that we are through the woods. His activity is not what I would like. But on the good side he's not bothering his sisters. Also, his bald patch is still there but his tail seems to slowly be growing furr. :) >Subject: Re: your post on enlarged spleen/adrenal tumors/ prostrate >Hi Dixie, > >You are welcome to pull anything I post on the FML or the DFW-list and >put it on the adrenal list. The more information we all can share, the >better for *all* the fuzzy-kids. I am happy to help. I hope you will >take care of this for me. Also, I am not "subscribed" to that list, how >do I do that? > >As for the Baytrill, I am told by my vet that it is one of the few >antibiotics that help the prostate, Amoxi won't touch it as a rule. See >if your vet will prescribe Baytrill for about 28 days. If he/she would >like, my vet is very willing to talk to them on the phone and make >suggestions on dosage for ferrets and such. So many vets know so little >about ferret medicine. I am very fortuante, I think I have a brilliant >vet. > >Trish > >From: Patricia Curtis >Subject: Re: Enlarged spleen/adrenal tumors/prostate > >>From: "Craig W. Lovell" >>Sam... has been having difficulties urinating. Sometimes, he squeaks or >>groans, which makes me think that it hurts to urinate. Two X-rays.... show >>a rather enlarged spleen. My vet is thinking that th is is what is causing >>the problem, as some of the internal organs are pushed ou t of their normal >>positions. He also appears to be developing adrenaloma; his rear end is >>bald, in this funny-looking square patch. > >An enlarged spleen is not that uncommon a condition in ferrets. Slight >enlargement is usually nothing to worry about. Greatly enlarged spleens >can cause some crowding of organs. How many enlarged spleens in ferrets >has your vet seen? Many vets who don't realize how common this is, will >panic when they see it and feel it must be removed, when that is not the >case at all. (This is just one more reason it is so important to use a vet who >is very skilled with ferrets and who is familiar with and sees many in his >practice!!) > >I suspect the real trouble is the prostate gland!! Enlarged prostate (which >does cause serious problems) is often a secondary condition in males with >adrenal tumors. The prostate, however, cannot be removed (so I am told, I'd >love to know if anyone has removed one sucessfully). Sometimes infections >builds up in the prostate and fluid can be drained off to relieve pressure. >Amoxicillin will have little impact on an infection in the prostate, I've >seen astounding results with Baytrill though!! > >>My vet recommended an ultrasound exam, which I'm trying to avoid. I'd >>prefer that the mone for the ultrasound just go directly to surgery. >Due to Sam's age, and the fact that the adrenal condition has been there >awhile (since you say his bottom is bald) I would opt for an ultrasound too, >that is, provided the vet is very skilled at ultrasounding ferrets. The >ultrasound is a test that is only as good as the person performing the test. >If the tumor is advanced to the point that it is inoperable (especially if >it is on the right) then it would be a sensless surgery, and you would >certainly not want to risk surgery on an older ferret like this. An >ultrasound will tell you to what extent the tumor has advanced. > >Even if the tumor looks operable upon ultrasound, because of Sam's age, I >would put him on Lysodren instead of doing surgery, if it were my ferret. >In some ferrets Lysodren has worked miracles on adrenal tumors, in some >others it has had little effect. (If you go with Lysodren, have the >pharmacist mix it with Ferretone, Linatone, or Virgin Olive Oil.) A 30 day >treatment of Baytrill should help the prostate condition. (Ultrasound >testing may be valuable in viewing the prostate too.) Lysodren will have to >be given for the rest of Sam's life. > >I have a little gal here, Rikki, who has seen immense relief of her >inoperable adrenal tumor on the Lysodren for almost 2 years now!! I've seen >another male get great relief of his prostrate trouble on the Baytrill, >he'll soon start on Lysodren if surgery turns out not to be an option for >him (he isn't at my shelter). > >Another important note to all: DO NOT IGNORE HAIRLOSS!!! When the >first signs of adrenal tumors begin to show, take action immediately. >Some tumorsgrow quite rapidly! I have seen tumors go from "invisible" >to "inoperable"in just a few weeks!! If you have hairloss at the base of >the tail, or a swollen vulva in the females, you've probably got an >adrenal tumor. Occasionally in males, you'll have hairloss across the >shoulders first. > >There is also a skin condition, (oily deposits, clogged pores) that causes >hairloss on the tail also, but usually it does not start at the base of the >tail. Often you will be able to see tiny black or orange spots. Cleaning >the tail with Stridex pads will clear up this condition, usually within a >week, and you can quickly rule in or out, an adrenal tumor. Occasionally, >antibiotics will also be needed if infection is present on the tail. But >act quickly regardless of which condition you feel it is, because if it is >an adrenal tumor, you need to know definitely and act appropriately. >If you need more information, email me directly. Kisses to Sam. >Trish >Director, Ferrets First Rescue & Shelter 7.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:10:17 -0600 From: Barbara Gustafson To: Lynn Mcintosh Subject: Reply: Adrenal females ---------- > From: Lynn Mcintosh > > I read you post in Adrenal post #10. I would like a little advise > > regarding my ferret Tippie. > > She had her left adrenal removed 1 1/2 years ago at age 2. Her hair never > > grew back. > > Since then she is constantly scratching, is always hot to the touch, her > > hair is thinning all over and is losing it off her back. She also gets red > > looking skin around her neck. Her vulva could be swollen but I'm not sure > > as I have nothing to base it on. > > How hairless is Tippie? Is it the tail (sorry; this is probably in a > Adrenal List somewhere). From the symptoms, it sounds like abnormal > adrenal tissue is still present. Are you acquainted with any breeders? > They could tell you if the vulva is swollen. In a spayed female the vulva > shouldn't be a visually prevelant organ, but pretty much flush with the > rest of the area. When it's swollen, it looks like lips pursing out > (sorry I couldn't think of a better analogy). Her tail has been hairless since her first operation and has never grown back. Now the hairloss is extending up her back and along the sides. > > > In February of this year she underwent exploratory surgery for a possible > > tumor on the right side but nothing was found. > > I'm almost positive these symptoms are adrenal related. > > My question is this. Do you think I should ask my vet to remove the right > > adrenal even though no tumor was present? I have heard that in a few cases > > the tumor could be inside the gland. > > I'm at my wits end as to what to do to help her at this stage and maybe I'm > > grasping at straws but I don't know what else could be causing this. > > Dr. Kawasaki welcomes consults from vets and I'll be happy to repost his > phone number. He told me he's done more than 1,000 adrenal surgeries! I > would trust my ferrets to him in a heartbeat, but he's in Virginia. Have > your vet call him; he's very friendly and either comes to the phone or you > get a phone appointment with him. Why not have your vet give him a call? Have you posted his number on the list before? If so I will go find it. If not then yes please send it. I don't know if my vet would be willing to call him or not. You know how some vets can be. I do plan on taking all the material to date posted on this list. Hopefully it will help. > I think we're going to have an ultrasound done on Percy before going in to > remove the right adrenal. Our vet thought both adrenals looked pretty > normal, but took part of the right and Percy's hair grew back, though he's > still got thinning hair (expecially on shoulders, with spotted red skin), > frequent urinating, and male agressiveness. A vet forum where slides were > shone visualizing the normal adrenals and abnormal adrnenals would be of > great interest to me! I think my vet would probably vote for the surgery as opposed to an ultrasound. Mainly cause he doesn't have one. LOL! He has always said that if they show the symptoms then thats probably whats wrong. > > Let me know if you need Dr. K's phone numbers. I've thought of asking my > vet to remove Percy's right adrenal, but then I think he should decide. I > asked Dr. K about what my doc was recommending re: medication for stemming > the current symtoms, but Dr. K. doesn't used interim meds; he does > surgery. My vet says a slight deviation in surgical technique can make a > difference how much tissue is removed, but that not all the right will be > completely removed. When both adrenals are removed Dr. K. says there is > some ectopic adrenal tissue that serves the purpose of the adrenals. Why > this tissue isn't diseased, if it isn't, I don't know. It sounds like Dr. > K. gets most or all of the right adrenal. If there is still residual tissue left, does that meant that the tumors can continue to spread? > > As my vet says, there are more questions than answers, and a lot more > opinions than questions.... *sigh* I agree with you there. > > Percy needs some relief too, and I suspect is will come from the removal > of his right adrenal. Best of luck with Percy. NOTE from LMc: Dr. Kawasaki's phone number is 703-690-2580. He is happy to consult with vets, or even me! A very nice man who has been treating ferrets for a long time. 8.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:30:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh Subject: FML Post: Ferret Prostate Update on Antony On Tue, 13 May 1997, Automatic digest processor wrote: > Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 22:42:02 -0400 > From: Ellen Goffin > Subject: ferret prostate > > To the person who was asking about ferret prostate glands: > > My vet told me something similar. He said the gland is not a true gland as > it is in male humans but prostatic tissue which forms a "U" or cup shape > around the bladder. When it gets inflamed or enlarged it presses into the > bladder causing the symptoms your Percy has (and my Antony, too). > > Ellen egoffin201@aol.com > & Antony ("yea, I'm the one with the enlarged prostatic tissue" > & Lexie ("prosthefittelyatic what? I don't have one of those, do I?" > & Babe ("I'm too young and restless to care about tissues... except the ones > that come in boxes that I can tear every single tissue out and then jump in > the box") > > > Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 07:31:57 -0400 > From: Ellen Goffin > Subject: update on Antony > > Some of you may remember that I wrote about Antony's bladder troubles a > couple times a few weeks ago. He had been straining when urinating and > going many times a day with small outputs. Anyway, he had a slight bladder > infection combined with enlarged prostatic tissue (we found the last out > from an x-ray). He is seven years old with one remaining adrenal gland. > Our vet special ordered some medication to help shring prostatic tissue > called Flutamide. We give him .1 cc 2 x a day. He's been on it five days > and still no change in symptoms. Unfortunately, this problem has led him to > pee wherever he happens to be. Even in the cage he is now using non-litter > box space and he was probabably had a 95% hit rate in the cage before. Out > of the cage anything goes: corners, middle of the floor, even on towels and > t-shirts strategically placed to keep ferrets going back to the litter box > to do their thing. Sigh. And I think his behavior, which may be beyond his > control, is rubbing off on our other two, Lexie and Babe, who have no excuse > and used to be 100% hit rate in cage and 90% out of cage. > > Ah well, so I have some damaged carpeting. Has anyone else tried Flutamide > for a similar problem and what has your experience been like? TIA. > > Ellen egoffin201@aol.com > & Antony (I'm sorry, but I just can't wait these days.) > & Lexie (I hate baths.) > & Babe (I'm SuperFerret. I can climb slippery bathtubs, I can leap tall > cages, I can dig to the other end of the Earth!) 9.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:30:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh Subject: FML Post: Vet Answers: Update on Antony On Wed, 14 May 1997, Automatic digest processor wrote: > From: "Michael Dutton, DVM, DABVP" > Subject: vet answers > > **The advice dispensed by myself in reference to FML postings is not meant > to supplant the advice of veterinarians who are in charge of the patient. > If the patient is not currently under the care of a veterinarian, the client > is recommended to take their ferret to one.** > > Long time, no write. The Hospital has been very busy. I have added an > associate veterinarian and also am a new Dad. Too many things, too little > time:) > > >Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 07:31:57 -0400 > >From: Ellen Goffin > >Subject: update on Antony > >Some of you may remember that I wrote about Antony's bladder troubles a > >couple times a few weeks ago. He had been straining when urinating and > >going many times a day with small outputs.... > > Flutamide is a medication that inhibits the action of androgens (male > hormones) on target tissues such as the prostate. I personally have not > back. >