From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:12 AM To: mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: (Fwd) Adrenal List #14 Forwarded message: From: Self To: @SENDLIST.PML,@SENDLIST.PML Subject: Adrenal List #14 Reply-to: Lynn McIntosh Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:30:48 Hi there. Sorry this is a bit late. Good news about Sully! Not so good on Nickodemus, though - drat. You've received the post from Pam about Oreo, but I've included it, as usual, so it's saved in a list. Haven't heard any update on Oreo's treatment or Big Foot's diagnosis, but hope some progress has been made Pam. Have a good weekend and Memorial Day, Lynn Mc. Adrenal LIst #14, dated May 23, 1997 1. Marshall Farms 2. Histopath Results? 3. Sully 4. Nickodemus status 5. Urgent Post: Oreo 6. Reply: Oreo 7. Reply: Oreo 8. Reply: Oreo 9. FML Posts: Dr. Dutton re: Histology Results Flutamide 10. FML Posts: Sprite with Enlarged Vulva Ferret Health (Adrenal) 1. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 22:37:12 +0000 From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" To: Ster2872@aol.com Subject: Re: Marshall Farms Sterling, I apologize if my message came off a bit terse. I've spent an awful lot of time fending off nasty comments about Marshall Farms from a local shelter operator and the FML. As a Cornell grad with Judith Bell as an instructor, I tend to be a little touchy. I really would be happy to answer questions about the Farm. I have 4 of their furkids myself. Again, I am sorry. -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com [Note: Hey, thanks Dr. Karen! E-mail is a funny mode of communication. I've found it pretty easy to get ticked or irritated and send something in writing that I would have said less brusquely face to face. We have four Marshall Farm ferrets ourselves. I just remembered a post on the FML (I think today's) from someone who has MF and non-MF fur kids, and it's the two non-MF fuzzies that have adrenal disease. I'll rustle it up and post it at the end of this list. Also, hasn't someone done some statistics gathering about the rate of adrenal disease in early versus late spay/neuter fuzzies? I seem to remember something. We have another early spay/neuter gal, about a year old, from a Canadian farm, and I think the angora ferrets are early spay/neuters as well. LMc] 2.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:37:38 -0500 From: Debra Thomason Subject: Histopath Results? >When I was at my vet's office earlier this week he gave me a copy of a >histopath report on an adrenal tumor he removed recently and asked for me to >pass it around to ask if other vets had seen the particular neoplasm >(leiomyosarcoma) described. He's been doing a lot of adrenalectomies, but >had not yet seen this type of tumor. > >The ferret is a spayed female, three years of age. > >Source: Right adrenal gland. 1 x 2 cm. gray white tissue(s). >History: Endocrine alopecia, vulvar enlargement for greater than one year. >Pancreas and left adrenal - normal. Right adrenal debulked approximtely 95%. > >Description: A section of greatly enlarged adrenal gland is examined. >Effacing up to 98% of the tissue is an expansive mass composed of interlacing >streams of pleomorphic, spindle to strap-shaped smooth muscle cells. These >cells often bisect one another at 90 degree angles. Mitotic figures are >infrequent. There are frequent small clusters of entrapped adrenal cortical >epithelial cells. The mass extends to well demarcated natural borders of the >section. > >Diagnosis: Leiomyosarcoma of adrenal glandular origin, with interspersed >adrenal cortical epithelial cells (possibly hyperplastic). >Prognosis: Fair, recommend follow up. > >Comments: Leiomyosarcoma of adrenal glandular origin has been reported in >ferrets. These tumors can also arise from the reproductive tract, including >the gonad and from subcutaneous sites. I am not aware of these neoplasms >themselves being associated with endocrine alopecia, however within this >neoplasm were entrapped clusters of cortical epithelial cells that appeared >mildly hyperplastic and may have been responsible for increased production of >estrogenic compounds which caused endocrine alopecia. Leiomyosarcomas of >adreanl origin have been reported to exhibit local expansive growth into the >abdomen, however metastasis has not been reported. This mass appeared >well-demarcated and may have been completely removed, however follow up is >suggested. > >Vets, any similar cases? Ferret owners, have any of you had an adrenal >problem ferret whose tumor was reported as leiomyosarcoma-- if so, may I >pass your vet's name and contact info to my vet? I know it's a pain, but if at all possible, could you CC replies to DTHOMA1@TANDY.COM? I do not subscribe to this list but it was recommended to me to post a message here. > >Thanks-- > Debra in Ft. Worth 3.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 17:00:57 +0000 From: Beth Subject: Sully We had great news today. Sully's pathology report came back with no signs of carcinomas. Spleen, adrenals, mass off pancreas & lymph node came back hyperplastic & reactive to the adrenal disease but no sign of cancer. His energy seems pretty good. He ate this morning about a half hour after his Pred. He actually likes Ensure Plus Vanilla & Pedialyte unflavored. He gets his Pred in a teaspoon of heavy cream in the morning. My husband has taken wonderful care of him the last 3 days as I ended up in the hospital.I had what looked like a mosquito bite but was probably a spider bite on the back of my knee last week which got red, blistered & spread quickly. Antiobiotics on Sat did nothing so when I saw the doctor again on Monday I was immediately admitted to the hospital on intravenous antibiotics. At least now I'm home doing the intravenous antibiotics here. If I could only get more than 5 hrs of sleep I'd feel fine. I'm on a 6 hour schedule. My knee looks great today so I should be able to switch to oral on Sat. Then sleep! This was the first time I missed work in 12 years so I'm normally a healthy active 33 year old. Just a weird thing to happen. Pred after surgery: Sully started with 1/4 tablet for 2 days, now 1/6th of a tablet every morning for another week, then down to every other day for a couple weeks as long as he looks ok on his days off then we'll stay every day. The vet said he doesn't like to give Pred because it suppresses the immune system so they only give it if they have to. Bear did not have it after his surgery because he was so active. Hint for giving meds: Of course we learn the hard way...Meg told me never give meds in Ferretvite or Ferretone because then the ferrets won't touch them. Sully should be getting nutrical or ferretvite but hates it now because the first 2 days we crushed up his antibiotic tablet in a mixture of both. My smart husband said lets just dissolve it in water & eyedropper it in. Worked great. He hated it of course but we got all of it in him. Now I'm putting a smear of Nutrical on his mouth & he runs off like I've put something really nasty on him. The tiny amount of Pred can be hidden in anything but those antibiotic tablets were pretty big. Hope everyone has a great Memorial Day weekend. Beth 4.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 22 May 1997 17:44:15 -0000 From: dervish@scrye.com Subject: Nickodemus status Dear Adrenal folks Nickodemus had been off of his Amoxicillin for a week and two days when the discharges began again. : ( He's going to the vet next wednesday and I'll talk to the vet about the Baytrill option as Trish memtioned in her post. He and his siblings will also get there Canine distemper booster at the same time. -Dixie Carter 5.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 20:42:37 -0700 From: Pam Franklin Subject: Urgent Post: Oreo I am not having good luck with my babies and I am going to need some big help for Oreo. I just found out that even though her heat signs have gone away, Oreo's estradiol level is still going up. Dr. Riggs took a look at her histology report on the tissue that was removed on her last surgery and it was benign. That would normally be good except that like adrenal tissue is prone to, it keeps growing back. Unfortunately, this kind of adrenal cancer can't be treated with chemo. Dr. Riggs is checking with other vets to see if they have any ideas. Surgery seems to be the only option at this point and since Oreo's tissue seems to regenerate every three months after a surgery this option is not very viable. I mentioned what Troy Lynn had said about mixing Lysodren with oil or nutrical instead of water (water causing the drug to be in-effective thus maybe leading to the low success rate some vets claim it to have) and my vet was unaware of this but very interested. Lysodren is only mixed for ferrets due to it coming in pill form for dogs and cats and has to be diluted for the smaller size of a ferret. I also told her about a procedure that is being discussed here and on the FML about litigating the vena cava. She was VERY interested in this especially when I said I had read that some vets have actually done it with success. She wants me to gather all the info I can (especially from vets having done this) and to fax it to her ASAP. The problem is I have not been saving the FML's and when I try to search the archives I keep getting errors. If anyone can get me this info PLEASE send it to me asap. It seems Oreo is turning out to be a very unusual ferret and we (my vet and I) have to start looking at other alternatives for her. It looks like one of my other ferrets Big Foot, may be having adrenal problems too. He went into the vet on Saturday to be looked at. He has thining fur and strange behavior and while still being on the thin side, feels like he weighs a ton. Turns out he has an enlarged spleen (already have one ferret with one of those!)which must be huge to make him feel that heavy. He did not get much of an exam due to on the way to the vet he had a seizure and required rush treatment (he has insulinoma) then my vet didn't want to further stress him out by continuing with a complete exam. He is okay now, but I will have to bring him back for further examination to determine if his other problems are adrenal. So, any info I collect for Oreo may be needed for Big Foot also. I am going to fax my vet the info on vena cava litigation from our adrenal list on Monday. If anyone can get me the info off the FML or tell me when the search feature on the Ferret World site will work I would greately appreciate it. Once I get all the info from Oreo's case organized I will post it here. I learned some things about adrenal disease I have never heard of before and I think it will greatly benefit this group. Sincerely and soon to be broke from vet bills! Pam Franklin 6.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:34:24 -0700 From: Patricia Curtis Subject: Re: Urgent Post re: Oreo If your vet did not know that Lysodren is ineffective if mixed with water, then how can your vet be sure this cancer won't respond to chemo??? I find this puzzling. Sammy has a cancerous right adrenal, she's responding well to Lysodren. At last "look", the tumor hasn't increased in size since her surgery 6 months ago (maybe longer, can't recall at the moment). As for help on the ligation of the Vena Cava, this procedure has been practiced for some time now. Dr. Charles Weiss is quite skilled in this, and has even written papers on it. He should be listed on the STAR Database. Hope this helps you. Trish Director, Ferrets First Rescue & Shelter 7.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 07:50:16 -0400 From: "Michael F. Janke" Subject: Re: Urgent Post re: Oreo > From: Pam Franklin > Subject: Urgent post > option is not very viable. I mentioned what Troy Lynn had said about > mixing Lysodren with oil or nutrical instead of water (water causing the > drug to be in-effective thus maybe leading to the low success rate some > vets claim it to have) and my vet was unaware of this but very > interested. Lysodren is only mixed for ferrets due to it coming in pill > form for dogs and cats and has to be diluted for the smaller size of a > ferret. My vet gets Lysodren in a liquid form, which I believe is something relatively new. In fact, I was just speaking to her Saturday about Max and she was telling me how it comes in a vanilla tasting liquid. If your vet is not aware of where to get it in this form, I'm sure my vet would be glad to tell him where. Her name is Dr. Chavez and the number at the clinic is 305-238-2030. How about complete removal of the gland in question. If there was nothing at all left, it wouldn't grow back, would it? For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke - mjanke@bridge.net * Member, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * * Shelter Home Page - http://www.bridge.net/~mjanke 8.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 08:47:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh Subject: Re: Urgent Post re: Oreo (fwd) Hi Pam. Your work mail is bouncing again! I hope this helps and you're getting messages at least at home. If you're considering the vena cava ligation research it carefully. Trish says Dr. Weiss has been doing it so perhaps a call to him would be good 800-449-4460, weissdvm@aol.com He's very ferret knowledgeable and willing to help. Dr. Kawasaki, two weeks ago, doesn't recommend vena cava ligation (rather removing the right adrenal completely, which it sounds like he's good at, though I've heard there are some that can't be removed, so that would be yet one more question for him I guess) nor does Cathy Johnson-Delaney, saying survival rate is low (but then, we have Rogue, for one, on this list, as happy proof to the contrary!, and a call to that vet could be fruitful). If Oreo has adrenal cancer, why is your vet saying Lysodren won't work with "this kind of cancer". That's puzzling to me, too! Keep me posted and hugs to the kids! Let's hope Big Foot isn't adrenal :( Lynn 9.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 19:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: FML Posts: Dr. Dutton: Histology Report Flutamide Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 08:37:03 -0400 From: "Michael Dutton, DVM, DABVP" Subject: vet answers **The advice dispensed by myself in reference to FML postings is not meant to supplant the advice of veterinarians who are in charge of the patient. If the patient is not currently under the care of a veterinarian, the client is recommended to take their ferret to one.** >From: Debra Thomason >Subject: Vet Input >When I was at my vet's office earlier this week he gave me a copy of a >histopath report on an adrenal tumor he removed recently and asked for me to >pass it around to ask if other vets had seen the particular neoplasm I haven't had a histopathology report like this one. The person you should contact is Dr. Bruce Williams at since he has done tons of biopsies. Mike Dutton, DVM, DABVP Weare Animal Hospital Weare, NH, USA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 13:54:43 -0400 From: Ellen Goffin Subject: flutamide Dr. Dutton, thank you for taking the time to find out some information about Flutamide. The funny thing is, the vet who saw Antony (Dr. Nye in Illinois) decided to try this out after talking to Dr. Rosenthal. It's got to be the same Rosenthal. I think her name is Liz and she is out east somewhere although I hadn't heard of her before. As for Antony's progress, I haven't seen any change in symptoms yet and he's been on the medication about 10 days now. I hope it is helping him internally though and maybe making him more comfortable. Ellen egoffin201@aol.com >From: Dr. Michael Dutton >More on flutamide. I talked to Dr. Rosenthal and she has used it for >adrenal disease. Her results have been so-so. [Moderator's note: That's Dr. karen Rosenthal at the Animal Medical Center in New York City. BIG 10.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 15:02:00 PDT From: Stephanie Yoong Subject: ferret question--sprite with enlarged vulva A question: My lil girl, Spice, four yrs old, DEW, spayed and descented (she is a MF girl) has developed an enlarged vulva that is weeping a little bit of whitish/green pus. It is not the typical enlargement that would be associated with Adrenal disease (the vulva is not looking like that of a ferret in heat) This is the first time this has happened, and she has been in this condition for a while. She is not experiencing any hair loss. We first thought it was some sort of vaginitus--and she has been treated with 2 different antibiotics with no improvement (Baytril and SMZ-TMP suspension) She has had a vaginal culture done and it came back negative. She is going in today for bloodwork. Any and all suggestions would be appreciated. I would rather avoid surgery at this point as I will be moving soon (probably). Thanks in advance for your help, Stephanie Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 10:12:17 -0400 From: Katherine Kuckens Subject: Ferret health This is just anecdotal, not meant to prove or impy anything. I have four ferrets. 1) Female, age 3, from pet store in VA, NO Marshall's Farm tattoos. Recovering nicely from recent adrenal surgery. 2) Male, rescue, history unknown, age about 5, no MF tattoos. In advanced adrenal right now. 3) Female, came with above, no MF tattoos, also about age 5, excellent health. 4) Male, baby, from pet store in CT, MF certificate and tattoos. No health problems - yet. SO, three of my four ferrets are NOT MF, and two of my three non-MF ferrets have adrenal problems. Guess in my little isolated case, MF is not to blame. But I do worry that my lovely MF baby faces health problems in the future. Is it inevitable? I'm actually afraid to get any more ferrets because of the threat of adrenal/insulinoma problems and expense. *sob* Kat ------------------------End of Adrenal List #14-------------------------