From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net]
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:12 AM
To: mjanke@miamiferret.org
Subject: (Fwd) Adrenal List #22 

Forwarded message:
From:     Self <faiml>
To: @SENDLIST.PML
Subject: Adrenal List #22 
Reply-to: Lynn McIntosh <faiml@sttl.uswest.net>
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:52:10

Adrenal List #22, dated July 4, 1997

1. Adrenal Mailing List
2. Quiet Group; Tippie Update
3. Timmy's Tea
4. Reply: Percy is Very Sick
5. Reply: Percy is very sick 
6. Percy, Deliver 2.0
7. Percy Sick
8. Percy is Very Sick
9. Flash and Slinky
10. Moxie/age at adrenal surgery
11. Percy! :) 
12. Percy :(


1.---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 23 Jun 97 15:55:40 PDT
From: "Dunn, Jim" <DUNN@pairgain.com>
Subject: Adrenal mailing list

 Hi Lynn,

Could you please add me to your ferret adrenal mailing list.  I 
currently have a female ferret, about 2 I guess (she was a 
resue) who has gone through two adrenal surgerys and has 
recovered nicely.  She is happy and full of life.  I want to 
keep up on adrenal information, especially for ferrets with no 
glands left, to learn about new drugs and therapes.  Right now 
our ferret is on daily doses of 2.5ml of Florinef and 5 ml of 
prednisine, both liquid.  I have heard about monthy shots which 
could replace this but niether my vet nor I have found much 
information on this.

Thanks,
Jim

PS:  please forgive any spelling errors in the drug names.  I 
didn't have the bottles at work and the spell checker doesn't 
include such techinical terms.

***************************************
Jim Dunn
Staff Engineer
Raleigh Design Center
E-mail: dunn@pairgain.com
Phone: (919) 875-3341
Fax: (919) 876-1817
***************************************


2.---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 13:43:50 -0600
From: Barbara Gustafson <barbg@oanet.com>
Subject: Quiet Group; Tippie Update

Hi Lynn,

Well I haven't received anything lately from the group so can only surmise
that we are: a) all still stunned by the news of Kodo's death and are still
in shock,  b) busy with the Kommando list and helping further the cause, or
c) all our ferrets have had a miracle and are suddenly cured. 

I would hate to see this group die as I think we are doing some good.

Lets see what news do I have?    Tippie is recovered from her exploratory,
we are waiting to see if she will grow back the hair that was shaved of her
tummy for the surgery.  She is still bouncy and full of life. I have
decided against using Lysodren at this time as I would like to give Timmy's
recipe a chance to see if that helps.  Personally I would rather use
natural means to help her rather than chemical.  I will keep you updated as
to her condition.

We recently started a Society and Rescue here in Alberta, Canada so I'm
keeping very busy with trying to spread the word and organize our first
fund raising event.   Lots of work but I'm having a ball.

Our first shelter ferret which we obtained about a week ago shows symptoms
of advanced adrenal.  She's about 60% hairless.  She went to the vets
Tuesday of this week but as of yet I haven't heard the diagnosis.  I assume
he will confirm our suspicions and she will have to undergo surgery.  

So whats new with the rest of the group?    I recall a couple of people who
had mentioned that their vets were going to write papers on the vena cava
ligation.   My vet has read the info I gave him and is hesitant to try it. 
 Would sure like to be able to give him some literature from other vets who
have performed this surgery.

Anyway that's about it.  Hope to see the list back up to speed soon.

Take care all,
Barb Gustafson (aka Boots)

PS:  My new e-mail address as of June 30 will be boots@icrossroads.com


3.---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 18:46:25 -0600
From: dave adams <dadams@dzn.com>
Subject: Timmy's Tea

At 04:58 PM 6/28/97 -0600, you wrote:
>
>NOTE:  Hi Barbara (post follows this note) and all.  I'll certainly have
>some news when I get a moment to write.  I just got back from a five-hour
>vet trip with Percy, whose enlarged prostate blocked off his urine flow

I am glad to see someone else trying Timmy's tea.  I have been giving
Bumpkins this brew as well as the red clover brew.  He(Bumpkins)has had two
surgeries and the last confirmed the adrenal,right, is inoperable.  The
problem with the adrenal tumors is they behave the same as the adrenal gland
but in an uncontrolled fashion and appearently will regenerate from very
small numbers of cells.  Well it appears that this regeneration in Bumpkins
has moved the source of trouble between and behind the aorta and the vena
cava.  I had been talking to Gary H., my vet, and another local vet who is
not afraid of herbal and holistic techniques.  As a matter of fact he is a
lisenced acupuncturist for animals.  He is a very interesting  person to
talk to about herbs etc.  Well i see i have ambled off the original course.
I would like to see how Barbara does with the tea.  I will try to post
progress but it will not be rapid as i understand.  So far the only change
is he did have an attack of something which produced a low glucose count but
during his last surgery no pancreatic tumors were noted although his
enlarged spleen was removed.  I have added something called Deliver 2.0 to
his soup and it has seemed to help( no more pred which was initially given
and then reduced to zero).  The information can be found on Gary's web page
which i will have to lookup and post later.  My vet has done several
adrenalectomies >20 and is very interested in the herbal approach.  Gary has
had good luck with his fuzzies. 

I am also feeding the brew to five others in lesser amounts.  Four of the
five have had adrenal surgeries and one is going to have same if this
doesn't help.

One of the four is still bald and the other three have regrown hair but seem
to be a little "slower" than i recall the to be before.  I think it has to
do with getting older and sleeping more.

sorry for verbose post.  will keep in touch and am reading the post along
with the KK and FML.
thanks
Dave Adams +16fbs


4.---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 23:47:49 -0700
From: Gary Holowicki <garyh@indirect.com>
Subject: Reply: Percy is very sick 

	Hi Lynn;

	You all are in my prayers tonight....  You might get some Deliver
2.0 from any pharmacy, they have to order it, but can get it in less than
24 hrs.  It is certified for tube feeding in humans, & Dr. Brown the
ferrret vet expert says it's the only thing suitable for ferrets since it
has 470 cals per 8oz can.  I have known of ferrets to survive on it while
going thru various stresses..  I also mix it with Timmy's recipe & they all
seem to love it.

Email or phone if I can help, 602-957-3112,

Sincerely,

                 Gary & the gang of fur ->
        Thru joining, their grief has been transmuted to joy,
        loneliness to celebration...
        ..Data, in "The Tin Man" episode, STNG.

  Info on Timmy's healing & holistic healing=
<http://www.concentric.net/~Gferret/> //  My [2-way pager] email address
for urgent messages=<2091071@skytel.com>; (500 Char. Max.): or
<http://www.skytel.com/Paging/2way.html>  ..  "Regular pages"=800-209-1071


5.---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:17:31 -0700
From: Gary Holowicki <garyh@indirect.com>
Subject: Reply: Percy is very sick

	Hi Lynn,

	Re;   I do have Sustacal in the cabinet,
>which we bought for our viral bout time, and never used.  I've heard that
>is a fitting substitute for Deliver 2.0, but am not sure.

	I asked Susan (Dr. Brown) 3 times when she sold me the first can of
Deliver if there was any substitute, as I was afraid I might not find it
somewhere on my travels.  She was  >very<  adamant that there is NO
substitute!  (her emphasis)...  I later learned that at least two things
are special:

1.	It has much higher calories per ounce than the other liquid
nutrition products.  Since a ferret, especially a sick one, can only hold
so much volume, and their metabolism is so high, nothing else can support
their life, by the sheer number of calories burned vs. intake.

2.	 I found the term "fractionated triglycerides" on the label means
that the fats are broken down to be more easily assimilated.  This is a
plus when working with a sick little one, or big one, for that matter.

	I'd guess that anything (almost) is better than nothing, so in a
pinch you might have to make do...

	I haven't looked at the other products labels, but if they have
sugar, sucrose, dextrose these refined sugars cause an insulin roller
coaster, where the blood sugar jumps, then in response the insulin surges
into the blood stream to then cause lower than before blood sugar.  There
is corn syrup in Deliver 2.0 which is not perfect, but it seems to be
balanced out by the easy to digest fats to overall help maintain a good
blood sugar level.  This last item is not a medical opinion, just my
midnight logic & personal understanding.

	I tried to take these things into account in developing Timmy's
recipe, where I use Ferretone and flax seed oil to provide the stabilizing
effect.  Flax seed oil also specifically will reduce cholesterol & improve
the lipids profile, so it's my first choice.  I get the kind sold from the
refrigerator in the health food store, dated for packing date and
expiration date (some brands do this), and organic so I know there are no
designer poisons working against what we're trying to do.  (also called
pesticides in the industry.  Think a moment, they must be poisons if they
are designed to kill living things, even if they are the "undesirable
bugs").

	Anyway, you all are in my prayers tonight & in the future.  If you
think this may help others, you can post it to the adrenal group.

Take care,

                 Gary & the gang of fur ->
        Thru joining, their grief has been transmuted to joy,
        loneliness to celebration...
        ..Data, in "The Tin Man" episode, STNG.

  Info on Timmy's healing & holistic healing=
<http://www.concentric.net/~Gferret/> //  My [2-way pager] email address
for urgent messages=<2091071@skytel.com>; (500 Char. Max.): or
<http://www.skytel.com/Paging/2way.html>  ..  "Regular pages"=800-209-1071


6.---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:29:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lynn Mcintosh
Subject: Percy, Deliver 2.0

Thank you very much Gary.  I will post your messages as you suggested. 
I've always worried about all the sugar in these human things versus plain
old baby food, meat and water.  I'll scour my Sustacal ingredients
tommorrow, when I'm awake. It's late.  I want to sleep in though and and
awaken to no news is good news, as my vet isn't going to call if Percy is
doing well.  I want to hear everything about him, but she did work 12
hours today, part of it caring for Percy, who she had not seen before, nor
me.  I'm thankful his vet is checking on him and treating him tomorrow,
rather than carting us off to an ER ward.  I'm sure she needs a sanity day
off.

Hugs to all fuzzies and BIG prayers for Percy, the sweet fuzzy kid,

Lynn


7.---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 19:37:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lynn Mcintosh
Subject:  Percy Sick

Hi there.  Thank you so much to those of you who wrote me about Percy!  I
can't possibly express how much it helps.  Well, no news was supposed to
be good news. And no news.  Though, when I filled out the info sheet
Saturday I was so worried about Percy (he hadn't been seen yet) I only put
one of the home phone lines, the one hooked to the computer.  On another,
second, sheet, later when I could think A LITTLE straighter, I wrote the
second number, to call if the first is busy.  So, I'm still worrying! 
What if she called when it was busy, etc., etc.  So I'm staying off the
computer as much as possible, keeping the first line open in case that's
the only one she's seen.  What a dolt.  I've learned, in an emergency,
bring someone who doesn't get rattled.  I panic.  I made sense of barely
anything that was said, I was so worried.  Luckily, hubby Janos picked up
on everything.  They couldn't catheterize Percy for the blockage
yesterday, but were going to try today.  I'll know everything tomorrow
morning.  I slept with a really funny looking stuffed animal named Herman
pretending it was Percy, since I wished he was on the top floor of a cage
I put fuzzies in when there sick, level with my bed.  I thought about him
all night, and the second I awoke, pulling for him.  I think the many
prayers and thoughts for him helped. 

Of course I sat on the couch all day waiting not to get a call, with
Herman beside me, and a neighbor stopped by.  I had papers all over and
had made a general mess in my worry, and this stuffed animal sitting
beside me.  I can only imagine what he thought.  Thank goodness I was
dressed.

I'll post those who wrote me personally, when I'm not avoiding my
computer.  Thank you, thank you, thank you.  I just hope and pray I didn't
miss the call and that he is doing great.  Will post how he's doing
tomorrow, and try to get a little more into the adrenal medical issues,
since I've learned a couple things. 

Fuzzy hugs to all and a big cosmic hug for Percy,

Lynn and the furry gang, and up in the stars, Schroedee Boat and Squeekers


8.---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 20:42:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lynn Mcintosh
To: Adrenal Group
Subject: Percy is very sick

I just heard from my vet and Percy isn't doing well.  She doesn't know if
he'll make it through the night.  Please, whatever your religious
affiliation, turn your hearts toward Percy tonight.

He is a sweet ferret and has never been in a fight in his entire life.
He's our highest hopper and biggest muck-mucker.  He loves life.  He spent
two years in a lab being anesthetized and used to train medical techs to
intubate babies.  He deserves to live.

We took him in first thing this morning with a blocked bladder.  X-rays
showed prostate enlargement, and he had blood in his urine. He was running
around just yesterday.  We had scheduled an appointment already to start
working on the adrenal problem, but it crept up on us faster than we'd
hoped.  I have to keep thinking the best for him. The clinic is closed
tomorrow but the vet is going in to check on him, but we can't visit him
:(...  We left first thing this morning when we saw he was blocked, and I
didn't have time to throw in blankets (scented with his buddies oils), his
own food (at least they have Totally Ferret at the clinic), and his little
rubber saddle.  I wish I'd brought them to him today while I could.  We
left at 9 am and got home at 2 pm, and it would have just meant driving
another 20 miles, but I thought he'd be doing just fine - he was so
healthy last night.

If all goes well, we're sending a blood sample to the U. Tenn. to check
estradial and testosterone on Monday.  He has two vets, and one's ferret
recently passed away and she has Lysodrena and Lupron (expensive if you
have to buy a kit- $500) for Percy (Lysodren and Lupron kept her little
Robbie alive three years, furry and fluffy, but I'll tell his story
another time).  But Robbie's necropsy showed no damage from the Lysodren. 
His may be an important story.  I'll ask Cathy to post to the group and
she plans to write a paper.  She is helping with Percy.  His first
exploratory (another vet) yielded little info, and his right adrenal was
biopsied and showed some adenomal tissue.

We need this group.  We need vets, such as Percy has now, that are
proactive in treatment and keep up on ferrets.  I'm thankful Percy has his
new vets.

I heard just a half hour ago from his vet and she is checking on
him tomorrow, but he has only had nutrical (I said we would be force
feeding him chicken soup, but she said he might aspirate at this point)...
and fluids and steroids (I think) and antibiotics.  She's going in
tomorrow to treat him (and a bird that got attacked by a dog :(  ) and she
said she won't call me if he's better.  She said she hopes she doesn't
have to call and say he's not doing better and really hopes she doesn't
have to call and say he "didn't" do better :(.......

That's why I'm so worried.  But I feel better writing this, and I'm glad
the adrenal group is here to write to.

Thank you for listening, and please send strong, healing thoughts for
Percy tonight.

Lynn and the Gang of 8 sweet fuzzies and, always, Schroedee Boat and
Squeekers, in Spirit


9.---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 20:48:08 -0400
From: Joanne Gelormino <moxieent@tiac.net>
Subject: Post:  Flash & Slinky

Hi all,

I have a six year old male MF ferret, Flash, who is showing signs of
adrenal disease (the loss of hair down the rump).

He also has insulinoma and is currently on Azium twice a day.  The poor
critter is also almost blind from cateracts and has an enlarged spleen.

My vet has been monitoring him.  He recommended not doing surgery unless
the spleen enlarges more and makes Flash uncomfortable.

Has anyone had adrenal surgery performed on a ferret who also was
suffering from insulinoma?  

I also have a 5 1/2 year old male ferret, Slinky, who had adrenal
surgery at age 5 and recovered nicely, although his hair took a few
months to return.  

Back in 1995, my now deceased ferret, Moxie, had adrenal surgery
performed at age 5.5, and what he had removed was actually a very large
hematoma on the adrenal which my vet said could have killed him if it
had burst.  His hair grew back fast but he died of kidney failure one
year later.

I was curious as to the oldest age a ferret in this group has had
adrenal surgery.

Thanks.

Moxie


10.---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 23:37:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: Amy Cada <amycada@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Moxie/age at adrenal surgery

I had a complicated right adrenal tumor removed from my ferret Zowie (RIP @
RB 6/12/97) last September.  At the time, she had insulinoma and was over 5
years old.  I decided to try for the surgery since hormone shots did not
decrease the mild swelling in her vulva and I didn't want high estrogen
levels to be the cause of a fatal case of anemia.  A 5% dextrose drip was
used during the surgery and her blood sugar was monitored every 5-10 min.
:She came through it fine, but the biopsies of the adrenal and surrounding
lymph nodes came back cancerous, so when she relapsed this spring, we did
not go for a second surgery since we knew what we were dealing with.  
If the adrenal is going to be the worst thing your ferret is dealing with,
and surgery may give a good quality of life, try for it.  However, if having
surgery means a significant risk to her life, or with a strong possibility
of adding little more than a month or two, then it might be worth it to wait
a couple of weeks; maybe try the HCG shots to control the hormone output of
the adrenal tumors.  ;They won't work forever, but it's hard to say when
"enough is enough" when you just want them better!
Keep us posted on whatever you decide...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Amy M.E. Cada                            amycada@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Behavioral Neuroscience, UT Austin
Asta- 2/3 NA agility, tennis ball, flyball, and bath addict scottie; 
Wylie-court jester wire fox; Gryphon, toothbrush loving scottie
Their 3 geriatric ferret friends, and Zowie ferret @ the RB
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


11.---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:29:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lynn Mcintosh
To: Adrenal Group 
Subject: Percy! :) 

Sorry to those of you that get two Percy! messages.  Hi to the adrenal
group.

Subject: Percy! :)

Hi there!  Finally heard from Percy's vet.  She's really great.  Percy is
much perkier this morning, but they still can't catheterize him, so
they're doing that at noon today with surgery (and cleaning out the
bladder and peeking at the adrenals, etc.).  His CBC count is right in the
middle of normal, and the vet is very positive he'll do well, and hopeful
it's the last surgery he'll need.  He was very happy to get some baby food
today, too.

I'll hear back about 3 pm -- in a meeting 1-2:30 :( 

Thank you, thank you for your support and kindness.  If you have a moment
send a prayer, or warm thought, for Percy.

Lynn


12.---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:45:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Lynn Mcintosh
To: Adrenal Group
Subject: Percy :(...

To all you sweet people who wrote, and those of you (in the adrenal group
and on the FML) who thought of Percy or just took the time to read about
him, thank you.  He made it through surgery, and was breathing on his own,
then passed away. 

It's been a long day and I will post medical details tomorrow.  One of
Percy's little buddies has holed up in the carrying case, with Percy's
other sleeping and longterm companion, and won't let anyone in.  Tarzan
even brought him their favorite smallish, rubber beach ball and was
allowed in for awhile, but once he left (with the ball) he wasn't allowed
back.  Tarzan started pushing the carrying case around (it's Gadzook's
first home;  Gadzook and Wally, our first ferrets, are holed up) and tried
to go in again, but Wally would have none of it.  Everyone has tried to
visit but Wally squeals and bares his teeth and and snaps at them, and
they know better than to enter.  It's very unusual behavior from Wally,
and I must give he and Gadzook lots of attention.

They are amazing and wonderful little creatures.  I just wish I could have
visited Percy on Sunday.  I didn't expect Saturday to be our last goodbye,
though I tried to get a big kiss from him (very enthusiastic kisser), but
he was just too tired.

Percy was a high hopper, a huge mucker, very rambunctious, and very loving
of all.  He never fought with anyone.  I brought Percy and Schroeder home
from the medical lab, separately, then let them out and they dooked an
danced for hours.  I'll never forget it.  It brought such joy to my heart,
and with joy comes the potential for pain, which I'm more than willing to
pay for the gift of being loved by fuzzies.  Percy ran with his head and
tail straight out and just bopped along, looked very perky and somewhat
businesslike.  He loved life and, until he started losing hair, I thought
of him as our most robust of ferrets.  He was cinnamoni colored, with a
face that looked like a baby calf - huge pink nose and wideset, big eyes.
Just one three-pound big-ole sweetheart sent from heaven into our house.

Thank you all for being there and for the letters and prayers - we held on
tight to those for awhile.

Percy may now be romping at the Bridge with his lab buddy (they were used
to train medical techs to intubate humans).  After Schroedee died, Percy
got fat.  Maybe he'll regain his lithe, hoppy, furry persona again.

Thank you and with this letter I'm sending all sorts of love to our Percy.

Hug your fuzzies tightly, always,

Lynn and the Gang of Seven, with the big spirits of Percy, Schroedee Boat
and Squeekers leaping above us...


---------------------End of Adrenal List #22--------------------