From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:12 AM To: mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: (Fwd) Adrenal List #24 Forwarded message: From: Self To: @SENDLIST.PML Subject: Adrenal List #24 Reply-to: Lynn McIntosh Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:52:35 Adrenal List #24, dated July 9, 1997 1. Big Foot Update: Histology Results (malignant) 2. Reply: Big Foot Update; Histology Results 3. Reply: Big Foot Update; Histology Results 4. Reply: Big Foot Update; Histology Results 5. Reply: Big Foot Update; Histology Results 6. Reply: Histology and Adrenal Tumors 7. Big Foot Update! 1.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:51:23 -0700 From: pfranklin@panlabs.com Subject: Big Foot Update I just got the histology report back on Big Foot and it is not very good. While the spleen biopsy was normal, both the adrenal and insulinoma material was malignant. All of the insulinoma tumor was removed but the adrenal may have spread. I'm not sure exactly what this means, my vet says she will discuss our options at his re-check in a week or so. Since Oreo's adrenal tumors were/are benign I'm not sure what I'm (or Big Foot) is in for. The brusing is starting to go away but he is not eating solid food yet. He is so weak that he can not stand up on the hardwood floor in the room he has access to so I have had to put down blankets. Not that he is very active but I like to give him a chance to move around a little bit each day in the hope that it will stimulate his appetite. Since Sunday morning he will not drink more than a lap or two of water and doesn't want any food so I have to force him to eat and try to get enough water down him so he does not dehydrate. I do not remember Oreo being quite so bad after her surgeries. Has anyone else had these difficulties? My vet thinks his iron level may be way down so I am going to pick up a supplement from her after I get off work. I am trying not to get discouraged at his slow recovery. At least when he is awake (which is not a whole lot) his eyes look very bright and normal. Keep the good thoughts and prayers going! Pam 2.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:39:55 -0400 From: "Michael F. Janke" Subject: Reply: Big Foot Update > I just got the histology report back on Big Foot and it is not very good. > While the spleen biopsy was normal, both the adrenal and insulinoma > material was malignant. Both of my ferrets that had adrenal surgery came back with a report of carcinoma. It's my understanding that it doesn't usually metastisize (sp?) so it might not be as bad as it sounds. > The brusing is starting to go away but he is not eating solid food yet. He > is so weak that he can not stand up on the hardwood floor in the room he > has access to so I have had to put down blankets. Not that he is very > active but I like to give him a chance to move around a little bit each day > in the hope that it will stimulate his appetite. Since Sunday morning he > will not drink more than a lap or two of water and doesn't want any food > so I have to force him to eat and try to get enough water down him so he > does not dehydrate. I do not remember Oreo being quite so bad after her > surgeries. Has anyone else had these difficulties? Judging from the past messages, it's only been 5 days or so since surgery, right? How old is Bigfoot? Neither of mine were ready to bounce around in a few days... not that I'd let them. I kept Max confined to one level of his cage for a solid week. He wasn't eager to get out, that's for sure. He's around 5 years. Even after a week, he wasn't too sure footed on our tile floors. This is pretty major surgery! I imagine they're still sore for a while, as you would be if you were split open from breastbone to bellybutton. Max also didn't go totally back to his dry food for at least a week or so, and then it was a gradual transition from hand feeding chicken baby food to eating IAMS totally on his own. Of course, Max sees baby food as a treat. Give the little guy time. I'm sure he'll come around. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke - mjanke@gate.net * Member, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * Editor, SFFCR's Ferret Footnotes Newsletter * Webmaster, SFFCR's web site * * Shelter Website - http://www.gate.net/~mjanke 3.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 20:52:20 -0600 From: Barbara Gustafson Subject: Reply: Big Foot Update > Date: Mon, 7 Jul 1997 10:51:23 -0700 > From: pfranklin@panlabs.com > Subject: Big Foot Update > I just got the histology report back on Big Foot and it is not very good. > While the spleen biopsy was normal, both the adrenal and insulinoma > material was malignant. All of the insulinoma tumor was removed but the > adrenal may have spread. I'm not sure exactly what this means, my vet says > she will discuss our options at his re-check in a week or so. Since Oreo's > adrenal tumors were/are benign I'm not sure what I'm (or Big Foot) is in > for. Personally I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference if the tumor is benign or malignant. Tippie's tumors were benign yet she is the one who I'm having so much trouble with continued hair loss etc. Hobie on the other hand was diagnosed as malignant yet the progression is very slow. He still has all his hair cept for on his tail where it is sparse. In appearance he looks much healthier than Tippie. Physically it's hard to tell due to Hobie's extreme age (11), his eyes are still bright and he still takes an interest in walking about checking things out. I wouldn't worry overly much about the histology results. I'm beginning to wonder if the test is even necessary. > The brusing is starting to go away but he is not eating solid food yet. He > is so weak that he can not stand up on the hardwood floor in the room he > has access to so I have had to put down blankets. Not that he is very > active but I like to give him a chance to move around a little bit each day > in the hope that it will stimulate his appetite. Since Sunday morning he > will not drink more than a lap or two of water and doesn't want any food > so I have to force him to eat and try to get enough water down him so he > does not dehydrate. I do not remember Oreo being quite so bad after her > surgeries. Has anyone else had these difficulties? Big Foot's surgery was pretty extensive, plus with his age it will definitely take him longer to recuperate. For Hobie it was a good week or better before he was what I would term back on his feet again. I would suggest giving him anything he likes best to get him to start eating on his own. Hobie would readily take mashed banana, yet we still had to force feed his other food. Maybe try using Pedialite (?) instead of water. Try adding some Ensure Plus to his food if you haven't already done so. > My vet thinks his iron level may be way down so I am going to pick up a > supplement from her after I get off work. I am trying not to get > discouraged at his slow recovery. At least when he is awake (which is not > a whole lot) his eyes look very bright and normal. Please keep us informed as to Big Foots progress. I'm still keeping him in my prayers. Barb Gustafson (aka Boots) 4.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 9:51:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Rochelle Newman Subject: Reply: Big Foot Update; Histology Results Barbara Gustafson wrote: >I wouldn't worry overly much about the histology results. I'm beginning to >wonder if the test is even necessary. I have to agree... It seems as if the test generally doesn't say much of anything useful at all, unless its the case that the vet removed one adrenal on the guess that it was the right one (without actually being able to see a difference). If the difference is obvious, then you already know its adrenal disease, and the only thing the histology can tell you is whether its benign or malignant - but for adrenals, this seems to be an almost useless differentiation. If its malignant, its rare that it would have spread to anything besides the other adrenal, and the histology doesn't tell you whether its had the opportunity to do that or not... If its benign, the chances are still pretty high that the other adrenal would get the cancer independently. For tumors that are relatively rare, histology makes a LOT of sense, because it gives you a pretty good idea about the chances of having to face that same cancer again - if its benign, you're pretty safe, and the chances of seeing that same cancer pop up again are fairly slim. But adrenal disease is simply not that rare, and many ferrets who get the "benign" form still get it again later. I sometimes wonder if ferrets who have the "malignant" form are even any more likely to have problems in the other adrenal than are ferrets who get the "benign" form - and if not, then there's not a whole lot of practical meaning to the histology reports. I have to admit that I didn't have the test done either of the two times I've had an adrenal removed from one of my gang. If it was benign, it wouldn't mean we might not face problems again in the future - and if it wasn't, it would just serve to make me depressed and anxious. - Rochelle Newman 5.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 13:53:01 -0400 From: "Michael F. Janke" Subject: Reply: Big Foot Update; Histology Results > Barbara Gustafson wrote: > >I wouldn't worry overly much about the histology results. I'm beginning to > >wonder if the test is even necessary. > > I have to agree... It seems as if the test generally doesn't say much of > anything useful at all, unless its the case that the vet removed one adrenal on > the guess that it was the right one (without actually being able to see a > difference). I agree too. I have let my vet send out samples from the last two adrenal surgeries, the results of both were carcinoma. It didn't really make any difference in the aftercare or anything, so what was the benefit? I plan to skip the test the next time. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke - mjanke@gate.net * Member, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * * Shelter Home Page - http://www.gate.net/~mjanke 6.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 23:09:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Amy Cada Subject: Reply: Histology and Adrenal Tumors >I agree too. I have let my vet send out samples from the last two adrenal >surgeries, the results of both were carcinoma. It didn't really make any >difference in the aftercare or anything, so what was the benefit? I plan >to skip the test the next time. > Yes, but where were they sent? I sent mine to Accupath. For some reason I am blanking on the name of the veterinary pathologist that runs it, but he's a ferret expert. The tissues from both ferrets that had adrenal surgery last fall were sent to him and they were right on the money in terms of what I could expect later on. Unfortunately so, that is. Zowie is now no longer with us (predicted) and Hobbes' came back 'guarded, hyperplastic, but no evidence of neoplasia' and he has bounced back pretty well for an old guy (he's now almost 7) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Amy M.E. Cada amycada@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu Behavioral Neuroscience, UT Austin Asta- 2/3 NA agility, tennis ball, flyball, and bath addict scottie; Wylie-court jester wire fox; Gryphon, toothbrush loving scottie Their 2 geriatric ferret friends; Foster & Zowie ferrets @ the RB ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 7.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 10:44:54 -0700 From: pfranklin@panlabs.com Subject: Big Foot Update! Big Foot is finally doing better! He has objected to being caged seperately to the point of where I have had to let him back in the big condo cage with the rest of the gang. The bruising is almost all gone and he is staying awake and being active longer. He still will not eat solid food so I am crushing up Totally Ferett and mixing it into his baby food to make sure he gets enough protein. I also gave him pedialyte and I think that with the iron supplement has made a big difference. His histology results came from Phoenix Central Lab in Everett, WA. The thing about his carcinoma tumors is all of the insulinoma turmor was removed but they found cancinoma cells all the way out the surgical edge of the adrenal tumor which means all of it wasn't removed and that it has probably metastasized. Amy, what were the symptons you saw after surgery? I won't be able to discuss this with my vet until next week. Dr. William once emailed me about the Tennessee Panel. It is a good thing to do because if it only shows estradiol levels elevated (we were discussing my female Oreo at the time) then you have ovarian remnant, not adrenal problems. If the other hormones are up then you know it is adrenal. I am so glad that Big Foot is getting better. I had an asthma attack at work on Tuesday (my first one) and all I could think of was what would happen if I passed out and went to the hospital, who would take care of Big Foot's medicine and food that night! Luckily I only had to go to my doctor and I was able to go home afterwards. Isn't it amazing how much these little furries come to mean to us! P.S. My home email is down for a few days so please email at my work address which is pfranklin@panlabs.com til further notice. Once again, thank you all for messages, they really help! And I think it is time I finally try Timmy's receipe with Big Foot. Sincerely, Pam Franklin ------------------End of Adrenal List #24----------------