From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:12 AM To: mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: (Fwd) Adrenal List #27 Forwarded message: From: Self To: @SENDLIST.PML Subject: Adrenal List #27 Reply-to: Lynn McIntosh Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 12:53:04 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 01:35:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: Adrenal Group -- Amy Cada , AndresenK@aol.com, beek@feist.com, Beth , boots@icrossroads.com, "Brian L. Schmidt" , Cat13Dog5@aol.com, dadams@dzn.com, Dave and Pam Taynor , Dixie Carter , Ela_Heyn@notes.pw.com, Ellen Jensen , ferreton@pond.com, ferretwise@top.monad.net, Gabby , Gary Holowicki , Helen Andersson , Jan3GDFA@aol.com, Jennifer Skeem , Jennifer_Morlanne@email.fpl.com, Jim Dunn , Joanne Gelormino , "Karen Purcell, DVM" , karen wisniewski , Lee McKee , Lisa Leidig , Lorraine Tremblay , lotaweasel , Margaret Lehman , "Mary L. McCarty" , "Michael F. Janke" , Pam Franklin , Pam Franklin , Patricia Curtis , ROCHELLE@art.fss.buffalo.edu, sterling , TMccabe453@aol.com, Troy Lynn Eckart , Tryntje Miller Subject: Adrenal List #27 Hi there. Good to here that Kelsey and Ludwig are through surgery and doing fine! Will look for updates. By the way, I received an update to Timmy's recipe from Gary Holowicki - hi Gary - and am including the first part of his message sent with the update, as he is asking for feedback, and Timmy's recipe has been tried by some on the list for their adrenal fur kids. It has been posted to the list, but is now updated, so write Gary (or me, and I'll forward messages to Gary) for the update if you would like it. Also, Michael has sent an adrenal recipe, too, which is included here. Troy Lynn, I've written Cathy Delaney-Johnson about Lupron and it's uses, as I thought she just used it in cases where the prostate was enlarged, but if it affects the feedback loop of the pituitary gland and adrenals, it would seem it might help otherwise. I hope she isn't out of the country, but I'll write more when I get her reply. Interesting list tonight! I'm pretty excited by the mention of the pituitary's involvement in adrenal disease, and how the pituitary/adrenal feedback loop might be related to instances of very furry fuzzies, i.e. not apparently adrenal-diseased, with diseased adrenals... and apparent adrenal fuzzies, i.e. balding, etc., whose adrenals look normal. And how Lupron, and now this other drug Dave is looking into, might help! This seems like pretty heady stuff!! Fuzzy hugs, Lynn Mc. PS. A lot has come up for me lately, but I'm setting the end of next week as a deadline for deciding, or making BIG decision headway, on a new computer, so I can go *much* higher tech, and start promoting our list a bit more, and make it prettier, be able to search for subjects, etc., those kinds of things. I know about what I'd get in a Gateway, but wanted to shop around locally first. Any and all computer suggestions (off topic, but would sure help support the topic!), hints, rantings, opinions, warnings are VERY WELCOME about now! Plunking down 3 grand with the possibility of landing a lemon is scary. Not even my car is worth that much (I'm Scottish, cheap, and proud of it!... well, sort of ;p...) Thanks, LMc. Adrenal List #27, dated July 19, 1997 1. New Drug: l-deprenyl (also called eidepryl and selegiline) Bobo Update 2. Ludwig's Surgery 3. Adrenal Recipe Post 4. Lysodren 5. Kelsey Update 6. Timmy's recipe, revised 7. Wally - Adrenal/Big Spleen Question; Hi to Bobo Troy Lynn: Lupron Question 8. Full recoveries from adrenal disease? Stories, please 1.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 17:47:39 -0600 From: dave adams Subject: New Drug: l-deprenyl (also called eidepryl and selegiline) Bobo At 12:37 PM 7/17/97 -0600, you wrote: >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:14:36 -0600 >From: Troy Lynn Eckart >Subject: Re: Mary McCarty; Lysodren > >With ours Larry is learning to trust my intuition. With Kadie, a >month ago, she was showing only vulva swelling. It just didn't feel >like adrenal to me. We tried a hormone shot (not the TN Adrenal >Panel) but it didn't help. Still didn't feel like adrenal. And when >Larry went in, guess what - ovarian remnant. Unfortunately she was >opened from top to bottom because Larry went for the adrenal first >but since I'd indicated we might be dealing with ovarian remnant he >checked and found it. > >We go on symptoms. Larry says, and I agree, when the symptoms >indicate adrenal problems and the test costs as much as the surgery >why spend the extra when you don't have too? Now in Kadies case we >might have been able to determine the difference but either way she >would have had to have surgery. > >Another tidbit. >Larry ordered a new drug. It is used for dogs that exhibit adrenal >problems that are caused by the Pituitary (sp) Gland telling the >adrenals to put out more hormones (not very technical am I). Could >this be something that is happening in ferrets that the adrenals look >fine but still show symptoms? Possibly. We will try the drug on the >next little one that shows symptoms but adrenals look good. Also >could this be why the adrenals go bad???? > >Hugs to all. tle This new drug is probably l-deprenyl also known as eidepryl and selegiline. I talked to my vet about this but it appears to be a blocker of dopamine and other things related to the control of the adrenal gland. We are very interested in the use and especially any use in ferrets. Please keep us posted on any use of this drug. Also Bobo finally pee'd. He has spent the day at the vets and apparently has been able to go. The main thing here for the adrenal group is not pee but the fact he had an enlarged cancerous left adrenal but showed none of the normal signs of adrenal problems. ie hair loss manly behavior etc only the urinary problem which is one of the possible side effects of adrenal disease.(prostatic tissue involvement). This may have slowed the flow enough to allow a build up of crystals and ultimately a blockage. will keep u posted dave adams +16 fbs 2.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 00:00:28 -0400 From: Karen Wisniewski Subject: Re: Ludwig's surgery Hello Lynn-- Ludwig had his surgery on thurs, I guess it went well, he came home the same day. His entire belly is shaved and he has about a 3 inch incision. He seems to be doing well, still sleeping alot, eating and drinking have resumed to normal. I think he misses Zuni (she is staying with a friend for a week to allow Ludwig to recuperate) he appears to be looking in her hiding spots for her. Biopsy was sent out, we will have results next thursday... crossing my fingers. Thank you everyone for the support and well wishes. Karen, Ludwig, and Zuni xox 3.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 08:37:07 -0400 From: "Michael F. Janke" Subject: Adrenal Recipe Post Here's an adrenal recipe that I got from one of the girls in our club. I can't tell you anything about it, 'cept what you see here. She says it works! I imported this as a text file into the message, so I hope this doesn't come across too badly formatted. ---------------------------------------------------------------- RILEY REMEDY NATURAL ADRENALTREATMENT INGREDIENTS: NATURAL SOURCES All Adrenal Raw adrenal glandular concentrate (freeze dried bovine) SOLARAY Grapenol 100% Grape Seed Extract 30mg TWINLAB L-Tyrosine free form amino acid 500mg EAGLE HEATH TECHNOLOGIES 100% pure shark cartilage 740mg TWINLAB C-Plus Citrus Bioflavanoid caps (with Rutin) TWINLAB Pantothenic Acid (B-5) caps 100mg NATURE'S ANSWER Alchohol Free Echinacea 1 oz. (As with any herb, use 6 days and skip the 7th for more effectiveness) MORINDA Tahitian Noni Juice I always make two batches of the dry vitamin mixture at the same time. It's a little easier to measure that way and I can save the second batch in a ziplock baggy and use it the next day. When using the capsules, I break them open and split 1/3 of the capsule between two batches So there is 1/6 of a capsule in every batch. (Unless otherwise specified in the recipe) When using tablets, I cut the pill in fours with a pill cutter and use 1/4 of a tablet per batch.. BASIC SOFT FOOD RECIPE (Recipe can be doubled. Just keep refrigerated in air tight container ) 1 can SCIENCE DIET A/D 1 jar GERBER 2nd Stage (Blue Label) Chicken Baby food 1/4 tsp. PET'S FRIEND, INC. Ferretzyme Plus 1/8 cup water The following are the steps I recommend in treating an adrenal ferret. You may skip some steps and/or ingredients and may or may not get the same results. Hopefully you will report any results back to me so we can know what is necessary and what isn't. The first three weeks of treatment, I feed the following morning and night. Shark Cartilage 1/6 capsule Grape Seed Extract 1/4 capsule Animinerals 2 drops Echinacea 5 drops Noni juice 6 drops I mix this with two heaping teaspoonfuls of the basic soft food that has first been warmed slightly in the microwave. After three weeks, I add the following ingredients to the above mixture and started feeding only once a day. All of the above, plus: Raw adrenal concentrate 1/4 tablet L-Tyrosine 1/6 capsule C-Plus Bioflavanoid 1/6 capsule Pantothenic Acid 1/2 capsule I mix this in same as above. I researched this remedy out of desperation for a ferret who had already had one adrenal removed and started showing symptoms again before the hair on her shaved belly had grown back. I did the three week pre-treatment to get her system used to the extra vitamins and to boost her immune system. Two weeks after adding the second batch of ingredients I started to see a change in the size of her vulva. After three weeks I was sure of what I was seeing. After four and five weeks, I started to see little hairs poking through her bare skin. After eight weeks, she was fuzzy and at 12 weeks, she had a thick soft beautiful coat and a normal size vulva. I stopped the treatment for one week while I was treating all my ferrets for a case of ECE and thought I noticed the vulva trying to sneak out again. If the treatment works for you, you probably shouldn't stop it. I also found that during the spring which is the normal active breeding season, they may start showing slight symptoms. Do not be alarmed. The treatment will keep your ferret's adrenal functioning normally during this stressful time of year. ---------------------------------------------------------- For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke - mjanke@gate.net * Member, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * Editor, SFFCR's Ferret Footnotes Newsletter * Webmaster, SFFCR's web site * * Shelter Website - http://www.gate.net/~mjanke 4.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 09:33:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Subject: Lysodren I have an 8 1/2 year old who has been on Lysodren for about 2 years. I believe Lynn mentioned "pulsing" the dosage. This seems to be working for my ferret at well. The Lysodren was given in capsule form, with instructions to open the capsule and mix the contents with Ferretone. I was told not to mix it with water, as Lysodren breaks down in water and would be ineffective. What my vet has usually done is put her on daily dosages at the beginning of increased adrenal activity, weaning her off to bi weekly, then weekly dosages. The last time we gave her Lysodren (in January) she began to develop ulcers and we stopped the treatment. Right now she has regained all fur but on her tail. The vet told me that Lysodren is effective for only so long, as it actually effects the adrenal stem, stopping it from overproducing hormones, but doesn't actually effect the tumor. We've only (the vet that is) felt a small size increase in the tumor over the 2 years. There have been periods of increased fur loss, and then regain after a couple months treatment of Lysodren. Hope this helps! Chris (and Missie, the 8 1/2 year old female with adrenal tumor) 5.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 23:31:20 -0400 (EDT) From: AndresenK@aol.com Subject: Kelsey Update Hello there !!! Hugs and Kisses to all fuzzies !!! I just got caught up on the adrenal post and want to say first off Lynn - hope your dad is doing well, Our prayers are with those fuzzies out ther facing challenges right now. Hope that Big Foot, Oreo, Ludwig,Grimmy,Kadie, Baby, Bobo, Tippie, Wally, Zippy, and Sanka - continue to fight the fight and do well. Sorry to hear about FLASH goin on to Rainbow Bridge - He is in the best company there and living a pain free, illness free life now. I bet Percy - is showin him the ropes. I hope I did not forget anybody - is so I am sorry. Kelsey has been home for 3 days now and seems to be doing well. He does alot of sleeping - which is expected after what he has been through. He does get up to eat and relieve himself and seems to be doing well in those area's. When I do see him get up I do try to keep him awake and play with him a bit - which he has been doing alittle more of. His strength seems to be building a little bit everyday. Tonight is the first night in the condo with his brothers and sisters - Ofcourse he has gotten spoiled and wanted to come right out but, he is sleeping in he old spot cuddled with love. He loves to sleep right in front of the food dish - so, when he wakes up he does not have far to go. He sure does love to eat . He seems to be resting comfortably and his 8 brothers and sisters are glad he is back and are taking it easy on him - for now. Thursday Kelsey will see the vet for a check up and to see if the stitches can be removed. Maybe the results of the biopsies will be in by then. Thank you everyone who sent well wishes for kelsey and included him in your prayers - It is much appreciated by me and the 9K's. I stopped by a fair that was going on here in town and the 4H club was having a ferret show - so of course I had to stopp by. Not many ferrets there. About 7 - All sizes and colors. There was this lady there holding her little fuzzie - the poor thing was just about completly bald - apparently has adrenal tumors the ferret is 5 yrs old., so sweet. The ferret also had small growths like moles popping up - currently one in her ear and one quite large under her chin. I spoke in lenght with this person about the ferret. The vet she see told her that she did not recamend doing adrenal surgery since the ferret is 5 and it would be like putting a 90 yr old under. This poor lady is terrified of having her ferret go under and not wake up. I gave her my vets name and my email address and told her of this list and the FML and tried to calm her fears about adrenal surgery and her ferret She said she will pay my vet a visit and get another opinion. I told her to email me with her work email address and I would send this address and the FML so, she has other contact with the many of us who have been there, and help her through. I sure hope she gets in touch with me - so, be on the lookout for a new member. Our prayers are with those fuzzies who are facing a challenge to make a speedy recovery and, with those who are not to stay healthy. Thanks for everything Katherine and the 9K's Kira,Kloee,Kory,Koko,Kandi,Kasey,Kelsey,Kaila and Kiku 6.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 00:02:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh Subject: Timmy's recipe, revised Hello all:) Well, it's been a while since I sent out the newly revised Timmy's recipe & story. He's still alive & well, and eating more of a variety of foods:) I also finally got a company to manufacture a couple of tonics that together very closely duplicate the original Chei Shei herbal tonic that very much helped Timmy get well! (For legal reasons they could not put everything into one bottle). Below is Timmy's story with the newest recipe, and I have a FAQ on Timmy's Tonic I can send out for the asking. I do need some feedback on the following: Over the years I have had requests for a "starter kit" of all the more weird ingredients of Timmy's recipe, (or all except the baby food), so I would like to know if this would be something you would like to see available, or would it only appeal to people new to using the recipe..? Any other comments would be welcome:) _______________________________ Cancer, health, & Timmy's recovery Timmy's home page with picture is: (updated 7/9/97)... SEE NOTE FROM LYNN MC BELOW Their energy levels are up overall, and Timmy is currently well, stable and absolutely beautiful!. :) Gary Holowicki garyh@indirect.com 602-957-3112 800-209-1071 Gary & the gang of fur -> Info on Timmy's healing & holistic healing= Pager email address for urgent messages=<2091071@skytel.com>; (500 Char. Max.): "Regular pages"=800-209-1071 (I am on Pacific Time!) NOTE: For the update, write Gary, or I, and I'll forward messages to Gary. Thanks Gary, and I'm glad to hear Timmy is doing well! Lynn Mc. 7.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 00:02:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh Subject: Wally - Adrenal/Big Spleen Question; Bobo Comment Troy Lynn: Lupron Question Wally is looking suspiciously adrenal. The same as Percy, with patchy hair loss not in classic pattern, but Percy was confirmed adrenal through the Tennessee adrenal panel... Probably many here have experience with enlarged spleens (I don't). Wally's spleen (I sure hope it's the spleen) feels four inches long, at least, and fattish. His hair loss started about a month ago, and I was waiting to see if it was seasonal; it's not. Has anyone noticed a difference in body shape with an enlarged spleen? His rib cage looks bigger and haunches skinnier, though he hasn't lost any weight. He'll be getting the Tennessee Adrenal Panel, or a portion of it, soon. But for now I'm curious about this apparent body shape change. His neck sure looks skinny as it has balded and is growing back short fur, and his head looks big, poor dear. He's got patches here and there and no regrowth on his chest area at all. I've read that hair loss is caused by elevated estrogen, so we may just get him the estradial test and confirm it that way, but I'll ask our vet. No signs of urinary problems at this point, thank goodness. Hi there Bobo (and Dave). I'm glad you're better and I'm glad you're peeing. Don't worry about discussing your pee problems here -- peeing is very relavent and important to the adrenal list! Percy died because he blocked up due to an enlarged prostate caused by adrenal disease. We lost another adrenal fur kid, Mary McCarty's Bear in June, to an adrenal- related urinary blockage. Percy's vet was going to put him on Lupron immediately following his surgery -- which he didn't wake up from :(.... -- which is what she did with her Robbie, and, when Robbie died of other complications later in life, a necropsy showed the prostatic tissue nearly invisible, it had shrunk so well. Lupron worked for her. If you can get your hands on any Lupron (it's very cheap, $15/shot every three months I think - but comes in an expensive human package for $350-500, and must be divided and kept at minus 70 degrees, so is not a simple proposition, as I understand it) it might be a good idea. Cathy Delaney-Johnson, DVM, feels this is a very important element in shrinking the prostate and solving the urinary blockage problem. I am so glad Bobo is well and peeing. Please keep us updated, as this particular element of adrenal disease is still very important to me. For Percy, I want to find the most effective remedy. And for Bear. And Bobo... and all the other adrenal fur kids. Hey Troy Lynn. Does Larry have a cheaper source for Lupron, and how is he planning on storing it, and will he use it in place of Lysodren? Anyway, we're sure enjoying a sunny weekend in Washington State, and if I don't get Tarzan and the other furzies outside tomorrow I'm in deep doodoo (literally, probably :// ) Hugs to all fur kids, those lost to love, and those safe and secure in their snuggle sacks... from the furriest to the baldest and every one in between... :) Lynn Mc. 8.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 00:02:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh Subject: Full recoveries from adrenal disease - stories please Hi there. Back again. I'm interested in hearing stories of full recoveries from adrenal disease with treatment being removal of adrenal tissue via surgery. Alicia, you may have compiled some stories by now. Others? Cathy Delaney-Johnson, DVM is saying that even with surgical removal of tissue, the pituitary-adrenal feedback loop continues, and causes problems. It does seem like a lot of fuzzies end up with multiple surgeries, and continued symptoms. But, I'm sure I've read stories of full recoveries, though don't know how long they lasted. If you have such stories would you share them with the list, and I'll keep track? They need not be long. How about summaries of the following: 1) Age of fuzzy 2) Symptoms 3) Timeframe of symptoms 4) Time of surgery and what was done; pathology, if any 5) How long it took for symptoms to fully subside, including urinary problems in males and enlarged vulvas in females and, of course, hair loss 6) How long the fuzzy has been symptom free? And, anything else I forgot at 1:30 am - sheesh - that's relavent! Goodnight, LMc. -------------------End of Adrenal List #27----------------------