From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, March 14, 1999 9:41 AM To: faiml; mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: Adrenal List #03 Hi there. I hope this list format works!!! For more info and an update on posting messages please see message #4 "Adrenal List!", which has new info. Hopefully, I will do more reading and less writing in the future :) Hugs to all our fur kids, Lynn Mc. Adrenal List #3, dated April 24, 1997 Messages: 1. Adrenal 2. Introduction 3. Adrenal Surgery 4. Adrenal List! 5. Ligating the Vena Cava 6. Oreo 1. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 16:38:08 -0500 From: Deana Beek Subject: adrenal How do you tell which adrenal is affected if the tumor is really small...in early stages??? -Deana- 2. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:16:26 -0400 From: "Michael F.. Janke" Subject: Introduction Hi all. This is my first post so I'll tell you all about my world of ferrets and adrenal problems. I've only had four ferrets total, so even as verbose as I tend to be, this won't be TOO long! :) We got our first fuzzy (Sidney) in 1986. We did everything totally wrong... wrong food, no shots, etc., etc., since we knew nothing and neither did anyone else. In spite of us, Sidney lived a long (as ferrets go) and relatively healthy life. He died at age 7+, never having an adrenal problem or any of those "omas" you hear so much about. Sidney, by the way, was a Marshall Farms ferret. I still miss the little guy. 3 or 4 months after saying "Never Again!!" when Sidney died and we were totally devastated, we adopted Max and Punky Doodle (whose given name was Duncan but he'll always be Punky Doodle to me) from our shelter. Around a year ago Punky Doodle started showing the classic hair loss signs.. We pondered whether or not we should do the surgery since he had previously been diagnosed with a heart murmur, and x-rays showed a rather enlarged heart. We opted to go the lysodren route at the suggestion of our vet. By the second week of lysodren, Punky had stopped eating his regular food (IAMS) and I had to feed him chicken baby food. We stopped the lysodren and amazingly enough, his hair started to grow back. Things went along relatively ok for a few months and then the hair loss started showing again. I feared putting him through the surgery because of his heart. An ultrasound was done and it appeared that it wasn't all that bad and surgery was scheduled. I paced the floor and Punky made it through just fine, minus an enlarged left adrenal. His right was normal, the biopsy on his left came back carcinoma. Unfortunately, many other problems, probably related to his heart condition, were seen during surgery. Punky Doodle never really recovered all that well from the surgery. I hand fed him 5 to 6 times a day for the next few months and he was on about 4 different meds. He grew progressively weaker, sleeping most of the time. He always had an ackward gait, but his hind legs were getting weaker and weaker to the point where he couldn't walk at all on tile, only carpeting. Finally, when it became obvious he was having more and more difficulty breathing, and his quality of life was nil, Punky Doodle went to sleep for the last time with the help of our vet on Nov. 26, 1996. That left us with Max and another "Never again!" ... until Beasley came along a few months later. Well, you all know how that ferret math goes. Beasley is only two years or so and the picture of good health. Max, on the other hand, started showing signs of hair thinning, though no bare spots, shortly after Punky Doodle passed away. I took him in, vowing to avoid lysodren at all costs. Max had his adrenal surgery on March 3rd of this year. Unfortunately, both his left and right adrenals were enlarged. For reasons I not sure of, our vet elected to remove the left and leave the right to "see how it goes." Like Punky's, Max's left also came back from the biopsy with carcinoma. So it's been almost two months, his hair has not shown any signs of regrowth and in fact, appears to be getting thinner, with a small bald spot at the base of his tail. As Jackie Hawley, who is in this group, will attest, this vet is pretty ferret knowledgeable and is our shelter's "medical advisor" but apparently not good enough to be comfortable with removing that right adrenal so close to the vena cava. And I'm upset that I will probably have to put Max through surgery again real soon. So, there it is. Ok, so it was a little longer than planned! Now, who has had experience with having a ferret that has no adrenal glands? For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke - mjanke@bridge.net * Member, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * * Shelter Home Page - http://www.bridge.net/~mjanke 3. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:45:04 -0500 From: Deana & Justin Beek Subject: adrenal surgery Just wanted to let everyone know that the surgery went fine. I got to see the adrenal that was removed (it was the left one) and it was slightly enlarged and had small round nodules on it. I was surprised at the size...I had expected something much larger but she told me that a normal one is about the size and shape of a rice crispy....interesting. She had a hard time finding it because she said it was surounded by fat. She said Mo has a lot of fat built up. It has only been about 1 and 1/2 hours since the surgery and he appears fine so far. Now all we can do is hope for a great recovery with no complications! Fuzzy Hugs to all! -Deana- 4. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:34:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: Adrenal Group Subject: Adrenal List! Hi there. Well, I'm trying the list thing! Let me know if you have any problems getting this, responding, etc. I'll say a big prayer before sending it tonight, as I've been all evening at my keyboard figuring out how to do the list. It's the first list to go out, but numbered #3, so I can put the glump of messages I've saved into some semblance of #1 & #2. Please let me know if you'd like these issues. As I said, I messed around with my e-mail software this evening and this is what I came up with, and it looks like I may have reached the extent of this software, so as time allows I'll continue to strive ever for greater technical sophistication ;). I'm still working out the bugs, and getting our adrenal group electronic "filing cabinet" in order. I'll save people's introductory messages giving a medical synopsis or history of their ferrets, so I can send them upon request; maybe call it the "biofile" list, until it gets too long. Can forward individual synopses too, upon request, at least for now. Thanks to Christine Code, of the Greater Vancouver Ferret Association, and to Michael Janke, of the South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue (and our adrenal group), for inspiration and info on lists versus newsgroups. It was pointed out that I might be able to finagle my own e-mail software options into creating a list. (A list seems to be more preferable than a newsgroup; and a listserve (like the FML) is mucho expensive). Ongoing technical suggestions are always welcome! So send messages to my address faiml@sttl.uswest.net that you want posted. Since I only have one address I'll need some way to differentiate messages to the list versus messages to me personally, or messages about the list but not for posting. Please put the word "post" somewhere in the subject line, which will help facilitate assembling the list visually, as well as giving me a word to sort with to more quickly assemble the list from my Inbox. I'm not sure how often the list will go out, but will try for every day or other day, depending on messages and need. If someone has an emergency mark the message URGENT and I'll send it right to the whole group. About adrenal info: A Seattle veterinarian who works at the UW Primate Center and has an adrenal ferret on chemo, successfully, has sent me an article she recently published in the Seattle-King County VMA newsletter. I'll send that on as soon as I get her permission. Due to length it will probably come as an individual message but I'll send it when I send a list. I wish I'd figured out all this before starting the group, but thanks for your patience; the doing has been the catalyst to learning in this case! Take Care and hugs to the furkids, Lynn Mc. 5. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:55:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: Barbara Gustafson , Subject: Ligating the vena cava Hi Barbara. I will send a couple messages to the group from people who have had the surgeries done I've saved on this soon. I've been curious about this too, as my vet seemed pretty surprized when I mentioned it. I wonder if naything has been published about this and if there is any record of the success rate. I think it's a very new procedure, or fairly new, and involves tying off (ligating) the big vein near the right adrenal. I'm sure someone else knows more about this. Lynn Mc > On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Barbara Gustafson wrote: > > > Lynn, > > > > Hi! We seem to be off to a good start. Sure hope something good will come > > of this. I enjoyed reading the summary of Dr. Dutton. I recall reading > > somewhere some information on a procedure you could have done when the > > tumor is attached to the right adrenal and the vena cava (??) I now in > > the case of my older fert Hobie, my vet has removed both glands. If I had > > known about this procedure I could have passed the info to my vet.. Do you > > know the article I'm talking about? 6. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 20:50:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: Pam Franklin , Pam Franklin , RE: Oreo Thank you for the excellent background message on Oreo. I'm glad you wrote so thoroughly about Oreo; especially as hers is a complex case including two surgeries and a recently recurrance of adrenal disease to boot! It's such an example of the difficulty of dealing with this disease, with so many conflicting statements extant about treatment. Dear Oreo's story really exemplifies the ongoing surgeries (necessary, sometimes curative) and treatment coupled with ongoing disease which so frightens me about this illness. We've been writing to each other for a while now - and first met on cyberspace (though live in the same city and must rendeveous at the Best Little Rabbit, Rodent, and Ferret House in Lake City one day soon!) and I've been frustrated I couldn't be more help with Oreo, so hope this group's collective experience will help. > That (second surgery) was December. In February she showed heat signs AGAIN!!! Yep, the > Tennessee test confirms it. > vet you don't think they know their stuff when I hear how well Lysodren has > worked for ferrets on the FML? Troy Lynn, do you have any info that could > help prove that the drug would be effective? You wrote your vets said lysodren does not have a high rate of success and they don't ue it because it only affects cortisone-producing cells not estrogen-producing cells. You're vets are supposed to be some of the most informed ferret vets in this greater Seattle area, Pam! What gives? My vet won't prescribe it either, but because he says it's very toxic and the longterm effects on other tissue (besides the adrenal tissue it's geared to destroy) isn't known. Pretty sure he wouldn't do chemo either, though. Another vet in the area says Percy is a candidate for Lysodren, though in his first and only exploratory (November) only a bit of the right adrenal was removed! Any Lysodrena success stories out there, (to pass on to our vets) for males and female ferrets? I wonder if Lysodren affects males and females differently. > At this point surgery is not really an option. That leaves chemo. This > will involve putting a catheter button in her neck so quick access to the > vein can be obtained. I have just found out that this will cost $500 - > $700. Then she will need treatment once a month for six months and ... > no object (that's what credit cards are for right?!). But I don't know how > I feel about chemo. I've heard it doesn't make ferrets sick like it does > people but it still sounds like a hard thing to go through. We need to get more adrenal chemo info. Have your vets called Dr. Kawasaki? I have his number, and can try to call tomorrow or give it to you, as you have more specifics on Oreo. I don't know if he's doing chemo but he's removed many adrenals and must have to deal with this. Sandi, of the Best Little Rabbit, Rodent, and Ferret House, the pet supply store in Seattle, gets the $5 (limited hours but costs more as more hours are used, version of AOL) to get online to the vet group, where there are some very knowledgeable ferret vets. It's all she uses AOL for. I will do this after I get a new computer. Can you get on AOL now? Check with Sandi for details. > Anyway, I know this was suppose to be brief but I'm just starting to enter > crisis mode with this latest problem. I have not had any success in > getting responses from people who have had experience with ferrets and chemo > from the FML For those of you just starting out with adrenal problems - > keep positive. Oreo is the only ferret (except for one other) that I have > heard of that still has problems after two surgeries. > Any input anyone may have would be appreciated. I know your message has gone out to the group once, but wanted to reply at length more now that we have a list format. I know you're getting desparate and need to make some decisions. I hope some of us can help. Any Lysodren success stories? Male versus female on Lysodren (don't even know if this is a valid question)? Chemotherapy information? I know you have to decide soon Pam and my thoughts and hopes are with you. Remember you can phone too! Hugs and a kiss to sweet Oreo (and Chubba Whubba and Big Foot, too!) Lynn Mc. ---------------------------End of Adrenal List------------------------