From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, June 26, 1999 5:03 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #305; June 26, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #305; June 26, 1999 1. Fatigue/Hind end weakness 2. Anaka's surgery 3. Bandit 4. pepto 5. Euthanizing adrenal patients?! 6. Ezzie leaves us 7. Cory 8. Jasmine's burial 9. Lupron (plus note from moderator) 10. FAIML #304; June 21, 1999 TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: Fatigue/Hind end weakness From: Lynne Wooldridge Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 22:31:15 -0500 My 8 (approximately) year old ferret, Dustie, has been doing well since his surgery last summer for adrenal disease, insulinoma, and enlarged spleen (removed). However, recently he has had less energy and tonight I noticed that he was having trouble climbing into his little "house" which is flat on the ground. His little legs did not seem to want to cooperate, and he climbed half way in and just lay down. This really worries me. He has had some stress because I have been fostering a litter of five kittens until I can find them homes. It has disturbed his routine. I find he is getting less exercise. I am trying desperately to find homes or foster care for this kittens. If I cannot find something soon for them, I may board them at my vets for a few days just to give him a break. Dustie is taking 1/2 cc of pred twice a day, and .4 ml of baytril for chronic urinary tract infection. He gets lupron injections once each month. I am feeding him duck soup every four hours or so, and I have added chicken baby food to the recipe to give him more protein (thanks for the suggestion, Mike J.). Is there anything else I should be doing? Lynne 2. Subject: Anaka's surgery From: "Janice L. Underwood" Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:17:40 -0400 (EDT) Hi all - Anaka had surgery yesterday [Wednesday] to remove a right adrenal tumor, or so we thought. My vet went in and found that the right gland appeared totally normal. She called another vet who has done many adrenal surgeries to come assist her. They re-checked to see if the left gland had regenerated from missed tissue [was removed a year ago] but there was nothing there. They checked for other tumors including in the liver. My old male who had adrenal problems several years ago had metastasized into the liver. They could find absolutely nothing wrong anywhere, no tumors, no tissue remnants, nothing. I feed Totally Ferret mixed with small amounts of Iams kitten [to help keep stools firm] and have her under full spectrum lights on a timer. Any suggestions? What we have for symptoms are swollen vulva, thinning hair and skin, and becoming aggressive. This has been going on since winter. We went for the surgery because her symptoms had recently escalated; her hair started thinning and her skin started to look different, along with a sudden increase in the amount I was noticing her drinking. Her blood sugar was tested, and it was 109. She's lost a significant amount of weight, and is right around one pound. She's always been a long skinny girl - even winter weight has never exceeded 1-1/4, but now her hip bones are sticking out. By the way, she came through with flying colors - by the time I got her home less than four hours after the surgery was over, she was digging in her bed, tipping dishes and using the litter pan. Now she's mad at me because I won't let her out to play with her toys. She's a little bit tender and walks with a big arch so her stitches don't touch anything, but even so. Even for a ferret she is one tough crittur. Thanks :) Janice L. Underwood Schenectady, NY UnderwoL@union.edu Vorri@juno.com 3. Subject: Bandit From: Melissa Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:27:48 -0400 >1. Subject: Bandit >From: "Rocky" >Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 17:47:27 -0700 > > ...I believe that if I have the surgery done again and have the > other one >removed then she must be on meds for the rest of her life? Right? I >don't want to put her thru that. My ferret had one 1 and 3/4 adrenals removed 2 years ago (the remaining 1/4 is attached to the vena cava) and has not needed any kind of adrenal medicine. YMMV. What about trying the Lupron shots that people here have had such a positive response to? -Melissa 4. Subject: pepto From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:51:10 +0000 HI Lynn, > > To the list and Dr. Karen: I asked my vet about Pepto and she said > she didn't believe it has enough aspirin to irritate the stomach - > just one more difference of opinion. Dr. Karen, I'd be interested > to hear more about your conclusion, since Pepto has been widely used > for ferrets. If there's much chance it will irritate the stomach > lining I'd like to avoid it; ferrets have enough problems with > ulcers as it is (not to mention they usually hate Pepto!). I've > used Sulcralfate plenty. My theory is that there are plenty of other drugs we can use, why use one containing aspirin in a possible ulcer case? I've had similar comments from other ferret vets (but believe it or not, the dose is still in my book, this tells you how fast our knowledge changes). BTW, latest word on 'the book' is that the publisher gets it next week, it should be back to AAHA for distribution in August if we're lucky. -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com currently practicing in Cumberland, RI 5. Subject: Euthanizing adrenal patients?! From: Andrea M Miralia Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:10:18 -0400 Hi all. I've had nine ferrets over the years, and only two have not had adrenal tumors. All had adenomas, except for Bean who had both adenomas and finally carcinoma. :-( I really don't think adrenal tumors warrant euthanasia, EXCEPT in the case of advanced carcinoma (which is rare.) The surgery works perfectly well to remove the tumors, although of course ligating the vena cava should only be done by very experienced vets. (My vet is an exotic and avian specialist and can handle very delicate surgeries on birds, so I know she can handle the surgeries on ferrets.) I have not heard of any bilateral adrenalectomy ferrets having a "poor quality of life" because of needing medication for the rest of their lives. They simply need the hormones their body can't make any more. Medication does not equal suffering. Nor does surgery, if done correctly with the proper anesthesia and post-operative care! (And I am someone who is EXTREMELY supportive of animal rights and aware of and sensitive to animal suffering.) If surgery isn't an option (the ferret is too old or has other cancers or heart disease), Lupron and/or Lysodren work well enough to alleviate symptoms. Please (Bandit's owners) reconsider surgery or medicaiton before you give up on Bandit. My Amos is skinny right now too - I'm working hard to fatten him up so that he can have his adrenal surgery. On the meantime, he is on Lupron, and is getting lots of Bob Church gravy in addition to Sustacal/Deliver and Totally Ferret. By the way, my 5 year old Snoo had abdominal surgery yesterday -- the tumor was the size of an ORANGE! We think it actually was some sort of uterine tumor- it was nowhere near the adrenals. We'll see when the pathology comes back. Snoo is feeling MUCH better today! In fact, she began eating Sustacal only a few hours after surgery... and wanted to sleep with her ferret-mates last night. Normally I don't allow this, but I was more worried she would tear her stitches by scratching at the (isolation) cage door in loneliness than if I just let the three ferrets sleep together. It worked out well - the boys just slept with her and didn't bother her at all, so we all got some needed sleep! She ate solid food on her own this morning - extremely fast recovery! (Much faster than adrenal post-op.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrea Miralia miralia@juno.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 6. Subject: Ezzie leaves us From: "Troy Lynn Eckart" Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 10:29:15 -0600 Ezzie was around 9 yrs old and she was our little one that had a right adrenal growth that had grown into the liver. Our vet removed as much of the growth as he possibly could. Ezzie had lots of little pinholes in her liver that were seeping blood. Ezzie stayed with us a few months after her surgery. Last night she died. I'd been nursing her for several days. She tried very hard to stay with us. Ezzie was on the bed beside me in her favorite puffy sweatshirt and with Zipper wrapped around her. Last night after a good warm meal, Ezzie went to sleep and never woke up. There is no more pain for Ezzie..... Ezzie came to us at the age of 5 1/2. She was an only ferret her entire life and had to do some adjusting to our free roam lifestyle. She had a few special friends she would allow to sleep with her. She was very much a squeaker and when someone rousted her she would squeak squeak squeak until I came running to save her. For some time I had placed her in her favorite cage when I wasn't home so she would be safe and secure. Now that her spirit has been set free she will be able to enjoy the company of all other ferrets. Please give all your little ones extra hugs in memory of Ezzie. Hugs to all. tle 7. Subject: Cory From: "Amy C. Dempsey" Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:59:08 -0700 We lost our little Cory yesterday. On Friday I had taken her with Odie to the vet because I had noticed a small ball like lump just inside her rib cage. Both the vet and I thought it wasn't the spleen but couldn't figure out what it was. On Saturday morning her mid section was like a tennis ball, it was huge. I rushed her to the vet and we both agreed that it was worth a try to put her through surgery. Surgery was scheduled for Monday, and I managed to nursery her through the weekend. She sat in my lap all yesterday morning and wanted me to rub her head. At eleven I took her to the vet and waited to hear. At 12:45 the vet called and said she had made it through surgery! It was a 6 cm (yes 6 cm) tumor on her liver. She said the rest of the liver didn't look so good, but her color was good and she was holding on. She did say that her pancreas looked great! As did everything else. At two they called said she was awake and that I could come for her about 4:30pm. As I was driving to the vet's, she called to say she had just slipped away. We had all been so elated, it was devastating after building up so much hope. Cory had just turned 8 years last month. She was a beautiful little blind albino. I had brought her home from the states 8 years ago in my shirt on the airline. She had slept peacefully for the 4 hour plane ride. She was always an angel. Both my vet and I question if the liver could have been causing her blood glucose problems over the last 3 months. We had put her on Pred in March when her BGL tested at 43. Cory will be sorely missed by me and her brothers and sisters. Amy and her 6 fur snakes and 13 fur angels. 8. Subject: Jasmine's burial Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:34:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Clare Sebok Jasmine, our four-year-old white ferret who died last week following surgery for a large right adrenal tumor, was buried today in a beautiful pet cemetery. Her grave is next to our dog's, and nearby is a nestbox with a family of bluebirds. Buttercup and Bridgett came along to help us say goodbye. We want to express our sincere thanks to everyone who sent sympathy messages about Jasmine's passing. Clare and Bill Sebok with Buttercup, Bridgett, Bonnie, and Charlie and Ben, Jerry, and Jasmine in spirit 9. Subject: Lupron From: "Ulrike Hassold" Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 19:06:22 +0100 This post is from my friend Jane and was on the FML, she hasn't had any replies about what Lupron is so I thought I post it on the FAIML, please e-mail Jane directly if you can help her. Thanks! Ulrike Forwarded: Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 18:20:38 +0100 From: Jane Odell Subject: Lupron? Hi all, I`d like to thank everyone once again, who gave me advice on Dylan's problem (the Cushings thing) As of yet it`s still undecided what is actually going on with him, his wounds are healing and his still fit and well :o) As long as this continues, i`m going to just keep a close eye on him. My vet did ask me a question though, she asked me to ask all of you (the ones that know, at least) what Lupron is? This, i think - was one of the drugs a couple of you mentioned for use in adrenal problems, but my vet has never heard of it. Unfortunately at this stage my vet hasn`t been able to find another vet in the UK who has ever performed an adrenalectemy(sp?) successfully. One vet she does know of, has only performed this surgery twice and sadly both ferrets died :o( So, if this Lupron can offer some hope at this time, to ferrets in the UK who are having adrenal problems - that would be a wonderful advancement :o) Please if anyone could enlighten me, with as many details as possible, i can pass the info. on to my vet. Thanks so much everyone - you are doing a great job of further educating the vets this side of the pond ;o) Best wishes, Jane, Harvey, Katy, Casper, Phoebe, Emil, Dylan, Annie, Clara & the 11 squeakers and fur kids Jilly, Jack, Igor, Bella, Tom, Mason, Baby, Dana, Fox and Reno Missing Angel West Wales Ferret Welfare Treasurer of The National Ferret Welfare Society National Ferret Welfare Society area co-ordinator for West Wales http://www.ferretlove.freeserve.co.uk/ MODERATOR'S NOTE: It would be good to get an informal Lupron FAQ together. I think there were a couple good posts recently I can scare up, and I can write up the names/numbers of people to call for info. I'll collect the posts that come in on this, unless requested otherwise, for a Lupron file that can be sent out. Will let you know when I have something. Also, if you send info on Lupron to post, try to copy to Jane. Thanks! Lynn 10. Subject: Re: FAIML #304; June 21, 1999 From: KFor651676@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 21:17:08 EDT I am sorry I have not been reading all of the posts. Life has been hectic! I just noticed something written about mucosy stools. My Baby has had both her adrenals removed and suffered from frequent bouts of this. We searched for answers and after many different vet visits no one seemed to have a solution? She would also loose her appetite. Finally after refusing to eat for two days I resorted to buying different types of ferret food as well as kitten chow. She began to eat Purina Kitten Chow and after over 6 months of this mucosy diarrhea she was healed. I know it is odd. I cannot figure it out. Since then we have added NutraMax with it because I am well aware that Purina is a low quality food but we were desperate. She is an odd one and we have had to do odd things to keep her going! Keep your options open and when all of the usual solutions fail try anything. Phoebe has been so close to death so many times and I am so pleased to say that after many illnesses and to major surgeries and monthly shots of DOCP she is well. Happy, healthy and full of ferret energy! Kelly Foran -------------------------- End of FAIML #305 ----------------------------