From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 6:19 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #307; June 30, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #307; June 30, 1999 1. Insulinoma questions 2. Elie Update 3. Surgery and Advanced Age 4. Pred vs. Tummy 5. Pain Medication 6. Sunshine Gang/Herbals 7. Very Bad News :(... 8. A new disease that is unknown TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: Insulinoma questions From: "Vicki L. Henderson" Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 15:21:59 -0400 My 3 1/2 yr old. MF boy was just diagnosed with insulinoma, we are trying to control it with .5cc prednisone twice a day and diet, he is not a candidate for surgery since he has an enlarged heart. I have a couple of questions that I was hoping that I could find answers to. First, is insulinoma hereditary? I also have his littermate, should I be concerned for him also? What is the expected life expectancy after diagnosis using meds and diet alone? I have checked a couple medical sites out, including Ferret Central, and emailed Dr. Williams, am not happy one bit about this situation. Thanks. -- Vicki L. Henderson-a.k.a. Ferret Fanatic The Fearless FLO! Buzz, Woody, Miss Tizzy, Ginger & General Kaos! http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/2373/ Our Furry Felines! Jinx and Tygger AIM: FerFanatic ICQ: #11898312 2. Subject: Elie Update From: Gail.Shochet@bdk.com Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:54:31 -0400 Hi Everyone, I am a terrible lurker, but I just wanted to post an update on my eight-year-old, Elie Wiesel. Throughout the last three years he has been one of Dr. Weiss' best "guinea pigs" and has been on a great number of different medications (and combinations of medications) for insulinoma and adrenal disease. He went for his checkup this past weekend and for another shot of Lupron and he is doing great! He was completely bald except for his face six months ago when Dr. Weiss started the Lupron, and now he has peach fuzz all over his body and some real fur also. His treatment for the last six months has been Lupron, Casodex, Carafate at one point (I think for stomach irritation?), and 1 cc of Pediapred in the morning and 1 cc in the evening. He was undernourished at one point and Dr. Weiss suggested we switch from hand-feeding turkey baby food to giving Prescription A/D dog/cat food. He eats this food readily from the can--almost an entire can a day, and also eats Totally ferret. He is a tubby hair-growing cranky old man, and we are ever so happy to still have him around. Elie has had two adrenal surgeries and Dr. Weiss took out as much as he could. We don't intend to subject him to any more surgeries due to his age, but we will continue his medication and A/D regimen for as long as we can keep him happy and comfortable. Last week my five-year-old male, Pepe, had adrenal surgery also and he is doing well. We did the surgery fairly early on him--the only signs were some hair loss on the knuckles, the base of the tail, and the nape of the neck, as well as an overall dry skin. Much of this had been reversed through the use of Lupron but Dr. Weiss recommended the surgery and so we went ahead. Dr. Weiss mentioned also that he has found a compounding lab in DC which will prepare individual doses of Lupron which can be mixed when needed, thus resolving both the dosage and the shelf-life issues. I know that he does phone consultations with other vets, I think he charges for them now as he is very busy, but if someone needs their vet to talk to them they can email me for his phone number. My condolences to those who have lost fuzzies recently, and warm thoughts to all of you nursing ailing fuzzbutts. Regards, Gail ..and Elie Wiesel, Pepe, Kiaya, and Pixel 3. Subject: Surgery and Advanced Age From: Lynne Wooldridge Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:53:24 -0500 When Dustie's spleen got so huge last year about this time, I was sure that surgery would kill him. In fact, "Not a Candidate for Surgery" was written in his medical records. However, I just could not give up on him. I contacted Dr. Bruce Williams by email and asked his advice. He not only wrote back by email, but was so kind as to consult with my vet about his treatment. He had just had his 7 or so year old ferret have surgery and he had done well. With a skilled vet surgeon, proper treatment, and excellent care, Dr. Williams assured me that Dustie had a chance. I was terrified, but that spleen was huge, the insulinoma worse, and adrenal disease had developed. I thought I would give him a chance. It could have turned out differently I know, but those critical factors and Dustie's own ability to recover, made the surgery a success and I have had him with me another year. It helps that my vet is a highly skilled (famous) surgeon to whom people all over the US send their dogs for delicate heart surgery. Sharon, from Ferret Rescue here in Austin, also provided advice and care after the surgery. Dustie is having some problems again, but he has had a wonderful year. Successful surgery depends on so many factors, but age alone should not keep you from that treatment option unless you and your vet feel that it would not be a wise option. I know that you will be considering many things when you make that decision. My heartfelt best wishes go out to you and Trekkie. Lynne and Dustie in Austin, Texas 4. Subject: Pred vs. Tummy From: "Michael F. Janke" Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 12:45:40 -0400 >donna@cmwaec.com> >Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 12:14:15 -0400 >i'm hoping that i've misunderstood things i've been reading about >prednisone causing ulcers, etc. is this not the case with pediapred? >i'm asking because her vet just told me that she's given pediapred to >ferrets for many, many years with NO tummy problems. please, somebody >tell me that pediapred isn't hurting her tummy. Pred should be given with food. It's my understanding that in the long term, it can cause ulcers if not given with food. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Visit our shelter's web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Visit the Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/FHC 5. Subject: Pain Medication Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 22:10:01 -0500 From: Lynne Wooldridge I firmly believe that pain management is critical to a ferret's (or anyone's ) well-being and recovery. My Dustie had Torbutrol after his surgery and I do not think that he could have endured the pain without this help. I think that the pain medication should be given on a schedule, and not administered after the pain is so obvious. From what I have been reading, it is much easier to control the pain that way, and much harder to control the pain once it starts. Any vets out there have an opinion? :) Lynne 6. Subject: Sunshine Gang/Herbals From: Buetow Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 19:30:32 -0500 (CDT) Hi everyone, Just wanted to let you know that we are still struggling with ECE. I also wanted to ask if anybody who has been using mostly herbal remedies with their fuzzies would be willing to talk to my vet. He's interested in complimentary medicine and would like to put together some protocols, I think. So if you're willing to talk to him, please e-mail me with permission to pass on your e-mail address to him. Chris and the Sunshine gang Missing Pippy buetowc@sls.lib.il.us 7. Subject: Very Bad News :(... From: Celeste Jacob Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 10:44:40 -0700 Hello All, I'm sorry to write you all in a group, but I just don't have the strength to do this more than once. I took Dusty in to the vet yesterday, as his belly felt very tight and he's been whimpering whenever he goes to the bathroom. She did an ultrasound and found that his spleen is 3 times its normal size, there's a spot on the spleen, the kidney, and the liver, fluid in the abdomen, as well as fat . . . which in total explains the discomfort when he eliminates. In addition, his blood sugar has been lower lately and I've had to increase the dose of Pred, but I'm almost maxed out on what I can give him. Surgery is the only solution for an enlarged spleen, but I know he would never survive another after taking the last one in March so hard. Nor would I even dream of putting him thru something like that again. Any way you look at it, either one thing or another will get him . . . if its not the spleen, it will be the Insulinoma, and there's no stopping the progression of that. I've tried him on Diazoxide twice before with no response at all. The vet said he may have weeks or months left, just depending on how his body holds out with all its going thru. My personal judgement - mom's instinct, if you will - tells me a couple/few weeks, if I'm lucky! He looks so tired, yet he sleeps 23 hours a day, his hind legs drag more often now, and although he's not in pain, he is clearly uncomfortable. I am going to the health food store today. Last night I was searching this holistic herbal book for anything that might help the spleen problem. There's an herb called Barberry which I will try in tincture form that "has the ability to reduce an enlarged spleen" and is said to be one of the best remedies for correcting liver function. I've been supplementing his baby food with all kinds of cancer-fighting herbs for over a year now and I believe it has helped sustain him. This is a last ditch effort to help extend the quantity or at least the quality of his life. How do I prepare myself to lose my baby?! I always knew from the time he was diagnosed last year that this moment would come, but now that its here, I can tell you its no less of a shock and devastating blow. I have asked Larry to start building a box for him and have been thinking about where we should make his resting place. These are things that must be dealt with, like it or not. And if that isn't bad enough, as soon as it happens, I must give up my sweet little Ferris, too. I am now so attached to him, it is killing me to even think about it! :(.. I got him in February because his previous owner was looking for a shelter to give him to, and he was depressed from having lost his little sister and cagemate in Dec. I took him so that he wouldn't end up Lord knows where and so he would have a safe, loving home with us. I also thought he would be good company for Dusty, which he really has been, and vice versa. Ferris is very active and I know he could never be an only child. When Dusty passes, he will once again be lonely and depressed without a playmate, and I would never subject him to a life of lowliness. After having ferrets for the last 10 years straight, I can only say that I am emotionally and financially spent, and could never take on another! I wish I could. I admire those people who always seem to have room in their homes, their hearts, and their wallets for as many ferrets as happen into their lives. Sadly, I am just not one of them, I just cannot take anymore heartbreak. Larry and I will be completely blown away when we lose Dusty; he is our child, our sweet baby boy. Since his diagnosis in May 98, we've spent close to $3,000 in treatments and surgeries, and countless days and nights worrying about him. I know Ferris will be much happier with my friend who has many other ferrets where he will be loved and cared for and have lots of little friends to play with. This will be the saddest time in my life. Thank you all for being such wonderful friends to us and so supportive through everything. Please say a prayer that when its time for Dusty to go, that he will slip away painlessly and peacefully. In Love, Celeste 8. Subject: A new disease that is unknown From: "Margie's FLO Hangout" Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 07:25:33 -0500 I am posting this so everyone is aware there is a disease that mimics ECE. Hopefully no one will have to deal with it. Margie -----Original Message----- Date: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 10:02 PM Subject: Gus biopsy His biopsy came back today. Now I at least know why nothing I did worked. Dr. Williams is not sure he ever had ECE, but it doesn't really matter at this point. Gus' villi in his intestines are blunted and fused together. Dr. Williams said he never saw anything like it before. He did say that he had a good chance if I could maintain him. this was because the cells underlying that build the villi are healthy. so, if I could keep him going long enough for new villi to grow, he would probably be ok. However..... His lymphatic tubes connecting to the intestine are clogged. Therefore, he is not getting any proteins and fats. this at least explains the weight loss despite what I fed him. there are 2 known reasons for this. Cancer and fungus. Gus has neither. Therefore, he is essentially starving to death no matter what I do. The only course available that usually takes care of the clogged tubes is prednisone. However, Gus has already been on a large dose for a fairly long time. That is why he would peak, then for whatever reason, get bad again. I don't have many options. Doc said to keep things going until this weekend, then if he shows no improvement, we would put him on a WHOPPING dose of pred. If that didn't work, Gus would probably be out of time. I will not starve an animal to death. Keep him in your thoughts, he really needs them now. -----Original Message----- From: Date: Monday, June 28, 1999 6:13 PM Subject: Re: Gus No problem. Gus got a feeding tube today. the vet didn't like his progress so he said he wanted to put one in. the surgery went fine and I find out tomorrow if I can take him home. Doc said to take him off the aspirin. Chances of perforated ulcers is too high. gonna start the flagyl and stay on the clavamox and back to AD. When I talk to him in the morning, I -----Original Message----- Tuesday, June 29, 1999 9:05 PM Subject: Gus Gus is dead. He passed away in his sleep while at the vets today. I will bury him in the woods tomorrow. He was a shooting star that hung around just long enough to steal my heart, but not long enough for me to be able to tell him thank you. However, I can say thank you to you for being there for me through Gus'illness. You are priceless. ----------------------- End of FAIML #307 -----------------------