From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 7:56 PM
To: FAIMLanon; FAIML
Subject: FAIML #309; July 6, 1999

Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #309; July 6, 1999


1.  Introduction
2.  Glucose testing
3.  adrenal surgery
4.  Thank You All!
5.  Ferret (on Lupron) Urinary Problem
6.  Back on the list with Indy
7.  Dr. Weiss' Lupron, Casodex and Arimidex Protocols 
      Available for Your Vets 
8.   Dr. Weiss' Protocol
9    Lupron Available
10. Ferrets Illegal in NY - Website url


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ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE:  FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS:  Past FAIMLs are
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adrenal/insulinoma web site: <http://www.miamiferret.org/FHC>. Michael
is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets
at this site in the FAIML Album.  Check out his site for more info. 

PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs:  I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela
Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer
a good background.  I forward them to all new subscribers, and will
gladly send them upon request.  I also send the "Disease Package", a
file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret
diseases.  Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as
well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site:
<http://www.ferretcentral.org>.

THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML):  The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving
subscribers and the topic is ferrets in general.  Moderated by Mr.
Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret information and
entertainment.  Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above)
for more info on the FML.  To subscribe to the FML, send email to its
moderator, Bill Gruber, at <ferret-request@cunyvm.cuny.edu> and ask to
be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email
to <listserv@cunyvm.cuny.edu> with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET
<first-name> <last-name> in the body of the email.


1.  Subject: Introduction
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 1999 10:57:51 -0600 (MDT)
From: Kim Cierpik <cierpik@belanna.colorado.edu>

Hi,

I first want to send my sympathy for all those who have lost their
ferret kids.  It's nice to have this much support from people who
understand how much our kids mean to us.

I have been reading the FAIML for a while now and I thought it was
time to introduce myself and my two ferrets.  My name is Kim and my
girls are Khobi (2 years old) and Zoey (1 year old).  Khobi is a
little sweetheart, and has recently shown signs of adrenal problems. 
A few months ago her vulva became swollen, but had no hair loss.  I
took her to the vet, and after having an ultrasound, he decided that
we should take the wait-and-see approach.  I spoke to the owner of a
local ferret shelter and he told me to rush Khobi to this vet that he
uses.  I just got back from this new vet and have started her on a new
medication to try to balance the hormone levels produced by her
adrenal gland.  Although this medication may work, he told me that the
only way to cure the problem would be to do an exploratory surgery and
remove the bad adrenal gland.  I was hoping that you could give me
some advice on whether or not surgery is a good idea at this point. 
The medication is called Cassex and if it is successfull, Khobi would
have to remain on it indefinately unless the bad gland is removed.  

Thanks,

Kim, Khobi and Zoey


2.  Subject: Glucose testing
From: Glenn Johnson <johno@ctaz.com>
Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 16:43:29 -0700

Friends of the ferrets,

My insulinomic Chuki had a BS test yesterday. A home type machine
accutech) at the vet's office showed 93mg/dl.  Some ten minutes later
same blood) her in house blood machine showed 82.5mg/dl. The vet
suggests that the first reading may actually be more accurate because
it used the blood "as is" before being spun down. Dr. Karen, or anyone
who may be knowledgeable of glucose testing?

Glenn and Chuki


3.  Subject: adrenal surgery
From: "the delaney family" <ferretkingdom@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 22:47:27 -0400

I think i might go ahead and get the surgery done on Sammy if he
continues the way he has been.  He is older though, and i want to talk
to a vet that does these surgeries.  mine doesn't.  I remember a
friend of mine telling me about the vet she went to with her ferret,
but i can't remeber her name. Anyone in the SW florida area (I live in
Port Charlotte to be exact, if anyone knows wehre that is! :)  that
knows a vet that is experienced in adrenal surgeries?

Sammy can be somewhat aggressive on occasion, and he does get bald
patches every year it seems.  His coat is thinner and coarser than
everyone elses and he scratches incessantly.  His skinn does 'feel'
different, i don't know how else to explain it.  He has no hair on his
belly near his hind end, so i can feel just his skin there....i dunno,
he is my baby though,  we've been through a lot with him.

When he got ece, i used to get up extra early, like 5:30, just to make
sure he got enough duck soup.  He used to lick it right off the spoon.
 When he first got sick too, i stayed up all night with him several
times, just to make sure he was ok :)


4.  Subject: Thank You All!
From: Celeste Jacob <celeste.j@apple.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:47:30 -0700

Hello,

I wanted to write and tell you all that I sincerely appreciate your
support and thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking the time
to write (both to me personally, and through the list).  You all said
such beautiful things that actually did make me feel better, even
though my heart is breaking so now.  :).....   

I also want you to know that I fully intend to write back to everyone
who wrote me personally, but it may not be until next week or even
possibly the week after, as I will have only limited access to a
computer next week, then I am going out of town from 7/8 - 7/11.  In
light of Dusty's condition and recent prognosis, I really wish I were
not, but it is impossible for me to cancel these plans.  :(  
(However, I am prepared to fly back early if necessary.)  Other than
that, I plan to be be with him every minute that I am not at work. 
All social plans and other commitments are canceled or on hold.

A couple of you have made comments - in such a caring and gentle way -
about my intention to give up Ferris "after" Dusty that have made me
rethink my position.  You seem to understand that my priority is doing
what is best for Ferris, regardless of how much it hurts me!  But some
of you have given me another perspective, and because of that, I am
not so adamant about this decision.  Perhaps being with us would, in
fact, be the best thing for him!?!  Either way, I will keep everyone
posted on that issue through the FAIML.

Again, thank you all for your kindness, support, and patience.  This
list has brought me the unexpected gift of so many good friends from
all over this country.  I feel so lucky and blessed to be part of such
a wonderful group of people, coming together to share not just
information, but something profoundly greater . . . compassion and
love - for each other and for the little ones we hold dearly in our
hearts!  Have a wonderful holiday weekend, and give all your babies an
extra kiss from us.

Celeste, Dusty & Ferris
(The Dooks of Hazard)


5.  Subject: Ferret (on Lupron) Urinary Problem
From: Lynn McIntosh <fail@sttl.uswest.net
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 10:36:00 EDT

Hi there.  We had an emergency Friday night.  Our very first ferret,
Gadzook, who has been on about 100 mcg Lupron every 4-6 weeks for 10
months or so, plugged up and couldn't urinate.  I panicked and called
a couple vets and the emergency clinic to see if there was a vet there
who could catheterize a ferret.  There was one who "couldn't guarantee
anything" because she hadn't done many.  Eeks!  Though, with ferrets,
no matter how much experience a vet has it's tough and, if there are
large crystals, may be impossible.  Well, on our list I'd read Troy
Lynn say she'd gotten her fur kids unplugged so, before rushing to the
ER, thought we should give it a try.  I remembered heat and massage so
had Janos (husband) run a warm bath and put Gadzook in, while gently
massaging his bladder.  In the meantime I called Troy Lynn, who had
some other ideas which I wrote down.  Not too much later, while we
were still on the phone, Janos shouted that Gadzook had urinated,
which he did about six more times that night.  What a relief!  I took
him to the vet as soon as I could the next day, where a urinalysis
revealed epithelial cells in the urine, indicating, not infection, but
an irritated bladder (probably due to an adrenal-related prostate
problem).  He got a Lupron shot (he was due) and antibiotics, and I'm
calling his vet tomorrow (he saw the clinic's other vet Saturday). 
Gadzook is urinating, but too often and, sometimes, too little, so
we're running on borrowed time and need to act on the primary problem
fast.  Rather than upping Lupron I think we'll be going into surgery.

There was little indication I saw that Gadzook was having any urinary
difficulties.  He does the common ferret trick of backing into a
corner and not urinating, to try and trick us into treating, so this
may have confused the situation.

I also located the catheter material that Dave Adams once sent me
(thanks Dave!) and was going to bring it with us to ER in case they
couldn't get their catheters in.  Dave had a ferret who couldn't be
catheterized until they used these very skinny catheters, which saved
the ferret's life.  It was comforting to have.  The vet who saw
Gadzook said she didn't see how anything could get through it (i.e.
crystals) but apparently something did.

Just thought I'd mention our scary experience. Has anyone else had a
ferret apparently doing well on Lupron, then beginning to show
symptoms again?  Also, has anyone with a plugging ferret had a vet do
x-rays to look at the prostate?  One of ours did this, the other said
she couldn't get info re: the prostate with an x-ray.

Thanks!

Lynn McIntosh


6.  Subject:  Back on the list with Indy
From: Brooke Lusky <brooke@wans.net>
Date sent: Tue, 06 Jul 1999 22:55:14 -0600

Hi all....looks like I'm back on the list, after dumping all mailing
lists for several months.

I currently have 2 adrenal boys, 3 healthy boys, and a healthy girl.
Cody (my first adrenal male) had the right adrenal removed about 3
years ago and has have very few problems since. He had some problems,
and I got him on Lysodren and he responded well to it. Indy, on the
other hand has had one problem after another. Some of you may remember
me posting about him last summer.

Feb. or March last year, Indy had his right adrenal removed. Last
August, he began having severe trouble urinating and had to have a
P/U. Turns out the doctor "botched" that job, and he's had trouble
ever since, off and on. I recently moved from FL to Denver and am
currently working in a vet clinic. Luckily, they see several ferrets
there and have a good amount of knowledge about them....BUT, Indy and
I are in the process of teaching them even more than they wanted to
know, I think!

Last week, I noticed Indy had another killer infection, so I took him
in with me and rattled off his history. He is currently on Antirobe
and Cefa-Drops, as he has pus pouring out both the old and new holes.
Also, his lowest part of the abdomen is swollen and solid as a rock.
Today, we did an ultrasound to see if we could find out *exactly* what
we're dealing with. Indy believes ultrasound is the worst form of
torture a ferret can endure....gooey stuff all over his belly and it
isn't Ferretvite!

Anyway, the doctor who performed the ultrasound believes what she saw
was cystic prostate...asked if there was such a thing and I told her
"yup". Reminded me of a spay on a cat a few years ago with cystic
ovaries..even though this time I was just looking at a screen which I
am not even familiar with. The left adrenal did not appear to be
enlarged, but with him squirming every time the vet tried to get that
area, it's hard to be positive. Regardless, he is a poor surgical
candidate....one day he's fine, next day looks and acts like death
warmed over.

Tomorrow, he'll be getting a special delivery of Lupron from KS
(thanks again tle...you're right, Larry is great!)....hope to see the
Lupron help him...anything is worth a try at this point, outside of
surgery. Just wanted to re-introduce myself and fill  in on the
latest...always seems to be something.

Brooke and the Aurora Six-Pack
Cody, Indy, Dizzi, Ekko, Pewter and Smokey
http://members.aol.com/FerretFun/frenzy.htm


7.  Subject:  Dr. Weiss' Lupron, Casodex and Arimidex Protocols 
                     Available for Your Vets 
From: MiskaBC@aol.com
Date sent:  Fri, 2 Jul 1999 10:39:00 EDT

Dr. Weiss gave me a protocol sheet to type up called "Medical
Treatment of Hyperadrenocorticism in the Ferret."  He wrote it for all
of the veterinarians who have been calling about lupron and the two
other drugs he used in his study to treat adrenal tumors in
non-surgical candidates.  This sheet contains the 3 protocols he uses.

The study has been completed and submitted to a journal but has not
yet been published so is not available.  However, he does not want to
withhold information that may help treatment of ferrets.

He has been able to locate a pharmacy with an 800 number which will
compound lupron into 1-ferret sized 4-month doses (2 mg/ferret).  That
means a veterinarian no longer has to buy a human sized dose (30 mg)
which is far more costly.  The pharmacy number is listed on the sheet.

The 2 mg 4-month dose comes in two vials - a liquid and a powder. 
They can be stored indefinitely until mixed.  Once mixed they should
be used immediately.

There has been some confusion over the 1-month versus 4-month lupron. 
Giving more of the 1-month lupron will not make it last longer.  The
microspheres are time release (think of your Contact cold capsules,
but the release being over a longer period) and will dissolve after 1
month, no matter how much is given.  The 4-month dose ends up being
less expensive as well.  It will sometimes last for 6+ months.  I
spoke with a shelter director recently; her two ferrets who
participated in the study are 6 1/2 months past their first lupron
injection, and there has been no return of symptoms so far.

If you would like me to send you a copy of the two-page protocol,
please email me privately, and let me know if you want it in an email,
attached in a Word document, or attached in a WordPerfect document.

Dr. Weiss is receiving huge numbers of calls about the study, and is
also faxing this same information out to veterinarians.  Of course,
should your veterinarians need information beyond what is on the
sheet, they may call him.  The pharmacy that he has located is
familiar with the protocol; he has spoken with all three pharmacists,
and they are used to shipping all over the country.

Again, please email me privately to receive a copy, and in what format
you want it.

All the best -

Beth + Miska + Pads + Gabby + Smudge + David


8.  Subject: Dr. Weiss' Protocol
From: "Michael F. Janke" <mjanke@miamiferret.org>
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 09:12:13 -0400

I have just place Dr. Charles Weiss' "Medical treatment of
Hyperadrenocorticism in the ferret" on the Adrenal/Insulinoma web
site.  You'll find the link in the left column on the Adrenal page.

For the ferrets,
Mike

* Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org
* Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue
* A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation
*
* Visit our shelter's web site:  http://www.miamiferret.org
* Visit the Adrenal/Insulinoma web site:
http://www.miamiferret.org/FHC


9.  Subject: Lupron Available
From: JSTEPH1219@webtv.net (J. STEPHEN WILLIAMS)
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 23:41:29 -0400 (EDT)

Troy Lynn Eckart <teckart@oz.oznet.ksu.edu> Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999
15:00:42 -0600 

Our Lupron came in. Our pharmacist packaged it in individual 100 mcg
premixed 1 cc syringes. Storage requires a regular refrigerator and
shelf live is 1 year. Cost is $10/syringe with a minimum order of 5
doses. Shipping is FedEx overnight. 

If you and your vet are interested, please have them contact our vet:
Dr. Larry Snyder University Animal Clinic Topeka KS 785-233-3185 

Larry is not in the clinic on Wednesdays and he normally does
surgeries in the mornings so afternoons are the best times to reach
him. He is in the clinic on Thursdays till 7 pm, and Mon-Tues-Fri till
5. We are on Central time. Larry is good about returning calls so if
he is not available, have your vet leave his/her name, clinic, and
phone number and time available and he'll return the call. We gave our
first injections on Friday. If we do not see a response by the end of
June, the second injection will be 200 mcg (2 syringes). Larry talked
to Dr. Weiss on Friday and he mentioned that the 100 mcg dose seems to
be a bit too low and recommended going to 200 mcg if the ferrets
didn't respond.


10.  Subject: Ferrets Illegal in NY - Website url
From: Melissa <melissa-blake@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 18:58:19 -0400

Hi,

I know this is off topic and I'll understand if you choose not to post
it, but I'd really like to get this information and URL out
particularly since it may directly affect some people on this list.

Some of you may have heard that as of 6/29/99 ferrets have been made
illegal in New York City and the five boroughs by the NYC Dept of
Health. (No, they were NOT illegal before. That was a rumor started by
the DOH. Now they are.) Ferrets that are confiscated may be held for
15 days before a hearing is granted at which time a judge *may* decide
to let the owner re-locate the ferrets. -Also may not.

There is a city councilmember trying to propose a local law change to
make ferrets legal in NYC and if passed that should supercede the DOH
ruling. For now, though, every ferret owner in NYC is currently
considered to be a criminal. A brand new site has been created with
information concerning the new law and what people can try to do to
change it. The url is:

http://members.aol.com/NYCFerrets

This is not *my* site but I will be supporting it and Lori (website
owner) is very open to suggestions. She's done a great job with it so
far. Please stop by and lend your support, particularly if you live in
the New York City area. If anybody is on the FFML or another mailing
list, please post a copy of this information there as well. The FML is
already covered.

Thank you,
-Melissa


-------------------- End of FAIML #309 --------------------