From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:12 AM To: mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: (Fwd) Adrenal List #31 Forwarded message: From: Self To: @SENDLIST.PML Subject: Adrenal List #31 Reply-to: Lynn McIntosh Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:44:41 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:48:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: Adrenal Group -- Amy Cada , AndresenK@aol.com, Anthony.Mastropolo@sandoz.com, beek@feist.com, Beth , boots@icrossroads.com, "Brian L. Schmidt" , Cat13Dog5@aol.com, dadams@dzn.com, Dave and Pam Taynor , Dixie Carter , Ela_Heyn@notes.pw.com, Ellen Jensen , ferreton@pond.com, ferretwise@top.monad.net, Gabby , Gary Holowicki , Helen Andersson , Jan3GDFA@aol.com, Jason & Alison Overstreet , Jennifer Skeem , Jennifer_Morlanne@email.fpl.com, Jill Galindo , Jim Dunn , Joanne Gelormino , Juliana Quadrozzi - GA Domestic Ferret Association , "Karen Purcell, DVM" , karen wisniewski , Lee McKee , Lisaferets@aol.com, Lorraine Tremblay , lotaweasel , Margaret Lehman , "Mary L. McCarty" , "Michael F. Janke" , Monica Maples , Pam Franklin , Pam Franklin , Patricia Curtis , ROCHELLE@art.fss.buffalo.edu, sterling , TMccabe453@aol.com, TrinaSing@aol.com, Troy Lynn Eckart , Tryntje Miller , "Valori K. Blank" , Vicky James Subject: Adrenal List #31 Hi there. Well it was very busy for awhile, then slowed right down, which corresponded with my schedule really well. We had a mongo garage sale - made $600 - which was exhausting. But, I'm now a reformed pack rat. It feels great to get rid of so much junk in one fell swoop. I only brought two grocery bags back up to the attic! Wally's going in for an exam and workup tomorrow - in all liklihood adrenal. His spleen is huge. I'll keep you all posted. I'm wondering how all our recent surgical fuzzies are doing. I'll be going up to Big Foot, Oreo and Pam's vet tomorrow, and feel very good about it. Welcome Juliana and Vicky - six new members Friday! Welcome to you all. Wow Vicky. What an interesting post. And Juliana's too. Thanks for the biofiles about your sweet fuzzies. I hope we can help. Anyway. It's a short but pithy list. I'm sorry for any delays, though. Lynn Mc. Adrenal List #31, dated July 28, 1997 1. Big Foot, Oreo; Lysodren 2. Bobo Update 3. Cassie, Athena, Ulysses and Mandy 4. Anola Gay Mystery Adrenal Symptoms, but no adrenal glands 1.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 16:24:50 -0700 From: pfranklin@panlabs.com Subject: Big Foot, Oreo; Lysodren Good News! Big Foot is finally eating hard food on his own! He started Saturday morning and ever since his color has really "pinked" up so I think we can forget about testing his blood count. It seems the flu bug has hit my place. First Fluffy, then Chubba Wubba and then Oreo. When she vomited I was afraid it was a reaction to the Lysodren but I stayed home from work the next day to watch her and she was okay. Then I got the bug so since she is now fine I'm assuming it was the flu not the drug. My vet office just called me and said that they attended a seminar on Lysodren and that there is a new dosage protocol. It is administered Monday thru either Thursday or Friday while taking Saturday and Sunday off. You are supposed to go til Friday unless you see signs of depression or anorexia then quit on Thursday. I am suppose to talk to my vet on Monday to see if she wants to switch Oreo to the new schedule. Anyone have any thoughts or experience on this? I kind of like the every three day schedule but maybe this other way is more effective. The vet office also gave me a handout on Anipryl (selegiline hydrochloride, L-deprenyl hydrochloride). It is suppose to work by promoting normalization of dopamine metabolism in the hypothalamus, helping restore HPA (hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal) axis regulation. (Okay, I hope everyone followed all that! I'm typing extactly what the handout says.) It is used to control clinical signs associated with uncomplicated canine pituitary-dependent hyperadrenocorticism (PDH) in dogs. It has a statement "Anipryl is not recommended for treatment of patients with Cushing's syndrome not of pituitary origin such as those due to an adrenal tumor or administration of glucocorticoids". I am assuming that this is in reference to dogs and people since adrenal tumors in both secrete cortisone and the same tumors in ferrets secrete (as we all know!) hormones. Looks like we need to gather all the info we can on this. As soon as anyone's vet gets a dosage for ferrets, please post it here. The handout lists a company called Deprenyl Animal Health, Inc. and they have a web site at http://www.deprenyl.com. I haven't checked it out yet, I can only access email at work and my online software at home is currently not working. If anyone checks it out let us know if anything good is there. Concerning the adrenal licking - I think it has less to do with salt cravings and more to do with hormone driven behavior. Oreo licks me and only the boy ferrets and if given the chance will pass me up if there is a human guy around! Oh, and beware, the 2 times she has gone to 5 months and beyond with this behavior she starts to bite instead of lick! I hope the lysodren kicks in soon! Ouch! Best regards, Pam Franklin 2.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 19:11:48 -0600 From: dave adams Subject: Re: Bobo update Well Bobo is home without a catheter. He is peeing but no big puddles. He is dehydrated but did drink and eat on his own tonight. He is being fed, by force, SD feline cat food in addition to his normal diet. This is to attempt to keep the urine ph slightly acidic to keep the formation of stones(crystals) low or zero. He is sleeping alot but has energy beyond my belief. This little guy wants to do everything just as normal. The other guys were glad to see him and gave him a welcome sniff. His is still on antibiotics and will be for a while. He is somewhere in the woods but not out yet. I cannot believe this is the little guy that was having his second surgery just last Sunday. I thank everyone for their thoughts and prayers as it seemed to help alot. Thanks Dave Adams +16fbs 3.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 11:14:28 -0500 From: Vicky James Subject: Cassie, Athena, Ulysses and Mandy Hello All, My name is Vicky James, I've been on the FML for about 3 years and only recently (in the last 3 months) had to deal with adrenal disease, insulinoma, and a mast cell tumor. My first adrenal problem was with Cassiopeia (Cassie for short). She's a Marshall Farms and is 2 1/2. Her tail started getting thin but no swollen vulva, no hair loss on her feet or other parts of her anatomy other than her thinning tail, but she was very lethargic My vet said looked like possible adrenal disease and recommended surgery so that was the way we went. I was there during surgery (have a wonderful relationship with my vet, money was short and she donated her time and I did the job of the tech for her so my surgery was free). No problems during surgery, left adrenal looked normal (very small) but we removed it anyway. Right adrenal was so small we weren't even sure that's what it was, left it in. "Very dissatisfying surgery" was what my vet said. Cassie has re-grown the hair on her tail and surgery area, these areas are thick and plush but not the base of her tail (which she had before surgery and blew after surgery). Tho' there is some hair at the base of her tail, not much, I tease her that she looks more like a poodle than a ferret. I'm hopeful that when summer coats are shed and fall coats come in it will come back in as well. She's still not as active as the others but definitely much more active and playful than before the surgery. Next was my insulinoma baby, Athena, one of the Fredonia babies. She, out of the blue, had a very bad seizure. We heard her making unusual noises (their cages are in our bedroom) and when we took her out she was listless, having a great deal of trouble breathing. Terrified, not knowing it was a seizure because I had never seen one, I called my vet (11:00 p.m. of course) and rushed her to the vets. My vet told me that all the information I copy off the FML and give her regarding everything in disease etc was what saved her life - so don't be afraid to give your vet information you get from any source, if your vet takes offense, get another vet! She gave her a shot of glucose in her liver and followed that as soon as she started coming around with many (about 5 I think) 8cc's of ensure (which she keeps around because of the FML) and some 2nd stage Gerber baby chicken (which she also keeps around because of the FML). She told me that if we had caught it another 30 minutes later she would probably have died. We finally went home at 1:00 am with pred. She is on .2 ml of pred 2 x's a day and I give her 1/2 jar baby chicken in the morning before work free feed all day and night (always have done this tho') and 1/2 jar of baby chicken at night. For awhile I was also supplementing her baby chicken with ensure at 10 and 2 (with my daughter and son's help as I work a 40 hr a week job so am not home during the day) when she was only eating 1/4 jar at a time. She will only eat well when I hold and cuddle her so this is our close time. She likes to ride on my shoulder while I prepare her med dose and put the baby chicken on a small plate and warm it up for her (I spoil her rotten). She dooks and plays but still sleeps a lot (but then they always sleep a lot) ;). She had surgery about 2 weeks after that incident to check for growths on the pancreas. The surgery turned up no visible anything on the pancreas so my vet took a biopsy and sent it off. It came back ok so that means what ever was causing the problem is still there maybe inside the pancreas so we just pray and keep Athena feed and medicated and hope it will take a long time to reoccur. I'm not sure about another surgery if it does, so anyone who has dealt with insulinoma before and can give me any information about how yours went, what to look for, best alternatives or yes, if another surgery when the time comes is best please let me know. We don't want to loose her and I'm mad as heck about this whole situation because she's only about 1 1/2 and hasn't really had a chance, coming from what her background is. The next thing that came up was with Ulysses, also a Fredonia baby. He had what I thought was a dirty spot on his skin until I looked closely at it and discovered it looked like a sore. I thought well they're playing too rough, he's got a skin allergy or maybe fleas (altho' no one else was scratching). After it didn't heal, and didn't heal and didn't heal I took him to the vet who said it looked suspicious and she would like to remove it and send it in for analysis. It came back mast cell carcinoma but the areas surrounding it on the tumor she removed where clean so we think we got it all and that he will be ok. He is doing fine and no worse for the wear. Finally in this 3 month period, we took in a rescue (named her Mandy, just seemed to fit her) from the animal control here (they called the community college where I work who referred them to me because their vet area wasn't taking in any animals for the summer. It pays for people to know you take care of ferrets. As soon as I picked her up I know she would be needing surgery as she had a swollen vulva, I had no idea that they got so huge! Classic loss of hair on the tops of feet and hair thinning on the tail. My vet scheduled and did surgery and said at last a satisfying adrenal surgery. A huge red growth on her left adrenal, right adrenal looked fine. I had to laugh at her (my vet) though cos' she said "It was a honken big red tumor like a clowns nose!" She was so excited to see one abnormal that she sent it in free of charge to be biopsied. (She's only been charging me cost for these last 3 surgeries and the cost for biopsies which in some cases was more than the surgery cost, don't know what I will do without her when we move to MN in a month or two.) :( Mandy is doing fine, her surgery was a week and 1/2 ago. Her vulva is going down and she has more energy. I will be hearing from my vet soon on the biopsy results and will update you regarding that when I hear. Mandy is a Marshall Farms as far as I can tell as she has the trademark two tattoos in the right ear. I did check the news papers for two weeks before (local library) and a week after we got her to see if someone was missing their ferret but no ads and no one called the animal control or human society so I don't feel bad in the slightest about keeping her, she may have been a throw away because of her health :(. Animal control said someone found her and turned her in to them, I wonder if it may have been the owner saying they found her so they could get rid of her rather than pay a vet bill. She is an absolute sweetheart and gives lots of wonderful kisses. Is my vet and I on the same track or what, she just called, it was cancerous but appears they got it all so we will see if there are any re-occurrences. I will be lurking with great interest and giving updates when there is something to add. Thank you Lynn for this great resource! Vicky and her 18 fabulous, fun, furry sheet sharks. ferret1@sprynet.com http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/ferret1/ Families are Forever 4.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:29:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Juliana Quadrozzi - GA Domestic Ferret Association Subject: Biofile & Post - Anola Gay Mystery Adrenal Symptoms, but no adrenal glands Hi Everyone, I just subscribed yesterday. Lynn, thank you for making this list possible. I'm writing for my precious Anola Gay. She's very special to me because after adoring her in a pet shop for over 2 week & refusing to buy her from a pet store, she was turned into me the day after she was purchased. Needless to say, this little ball of fur rescue wasn't going anywhere. nola is a 2 yr old silver mitt MF jill w/a wonderful personality & perfect disposition, who has been w/me since she was about 8-9 wks old. Her only peculiar quirk (if you can say that about anything woozles do) is that for the last few months she has had an affinity for cleaning & chewing on my hubby's ears. After her 2 wk quarantine she was introduced to my ECE-infected fur family. The introduction was stress-free - everybody get along great. Within 48 hrs she had the stinky, sticky, grainy, slimy poop, w/a couple of green movements thrown in. She never stopped eating or drinking & all of her symptoms disappeared in 2 days w/out treatment. I wish they all went through it like the babies do. She always had a luxurious shiny coat. When her coat became coarse & thin this year I did't think too much about it thinking it was a heavy coat change for summer. Then came the distinctive sickly-sweet adrenal smell, accompanied by a distinctly swolen vulva. I also noticed that her body tone had changed from muscular to soft & fleshy. Her skin texture also changed to *delicate* feeling. I had a general check up done & annual distemper & rabies vacs. My vet & I decided to do the surgery right away. So last Thurs nola had her operation to find absolutely nothing. My vet told me she could find absolutely no adrenal glands, no less enlarged. It was an exceptionally long operation. She removed the surrounding fat & continued to search. Finding nothing she began the search for retained reproductive tissue & again nothing. She went back up & searched for the adrenals again & found nothing. She said short of her head & chest cavity, there wasn't a part that she hadn't had her hands on. Pancreas, kidneys, liver all appear to be completely normal. My vet is at a complete loss & very frustrated. We then had the blood test done to determine her hormone level. It was 55 - my vet said that's very high. If I need to be more specific about what I'm talking about let me know so I can get the correct terminology from my vet. I'm looking for input/alternatives before starting the Lysodrine therapy recommended by my vet, since I've seen such an adversion to using it in other posts. I've seen some discussion on the last few lists about Pituitiary involvement & light cycles. Can anyone give me more specifics? KODO IS DEAD - LONG LIVE KODO Juliana Frodo, Rocks, Anola Gay, SNAFU, FUBAR, Tabu, Chaos, Tuxedo, Bijou, Fiasco, & Dazzle --------------------------End of Adrenal List #31----------------------