From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Thursday, July 15, 1999 8:07 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #313; July 16, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #313; July 16, 1999 1. Introducing Benji and friends 2. MY new site :0) 3. Clipping nails and low levels 4. Hair regrowth 5. Ben 6. Gadzook and Petey (urgent case) 7. Gadzook and Petey Update 8. Fur regrowth 9. mast cell tumors 10. SNOWFLAKE HAS JOINED THE CLOSET THIEVES TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. ect: Introducing Benji and friends From: Christine Bertch Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 22:28:58 -0700 I am so glad to have found this informative and supportive mailing list. I have joined primarily because our 6+ year old boy Benjamin has been diagnosed with insulinoma. I noticed that he was getting gradually more lethargic, but then when he stopped eating and started having diarrhea, I immediately took him in to the vet. His blood glucose was less than 40. He was dehydrated and losing weight. I have since been feeding him a mixture of science diet a/d, chicken baby food and water. He is doing better, but we're also having to give him pred (which he, understandably, hates :( ). I'm hoping we can get him in for surgery this week. Almost two years ago, my ferret Missy was diagnosed with adrenal disease. Our vet removed a grape-sized malignant tumor from her left adrenal and she has been in amazingly great condition ever since. What is interesting about this whole thing is that both Missy and Benji are ferrets that I took on because they needed a new home and these problems surfaced within the first month of having them (actually I knew what was probably wrong with Missy from day 1, as she had a completely bald tail)! Lucky me, they are all worth it. I have four more little weezels as well--Fiona, Jezebel, Rikki, and Wuzzitt (only Fiona and Wuzzitt have been with me since kithood). I'll post again when Benji has had his surgery...wish him luck :) Thanks everyone for all your help! Christine and the business of six wonderful weezels 2. Subject: MY new site :0) From: Melissa Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:41:16 -0400 Ok... *MY* website is finally up! After many emails asking me how to give sub-q fluids (and also lots of emails asking me about how to modify a Midwest cage!) I finally put up a website with the information (pictures too!). I hope this is helpful to some people. Let me know what you think. http://home.att.net/~The_Ferrets Oh, and if anybody is on the FML or FFML (or any other ferret list) could you please post this info there as well and let me know? I'd like for this information to be available to as many people as possible. Thank you! -Melissa 3. Subject: Clipping nails and low levels From: "Michael F. Janke" Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:55:06 -0400 > 3. Subject: Insulinoma blood sugar testing > From: WOO1953@aol.com > > Jack Browdin wrote about testing our ferrets blood sugar at home. > Well, I'm trying to do that but so far I've had a problem getting > blood from my ferret. If anyone knows a good place to get the blood > from please let me know. So far I've tried the pads of her feet and > once got a spec of blood from there but not enough for the test and > I've also tried her ear with no luck. Someone told me to try > clipping her nails a little short and get the blood from there but I > just couldn't do that to her. Getting blood from the pads of their feet is VERY difficult. I've done it, but it's not easy. Clipping the nail short doesn't appear to be as horrible as it may seem. Since I'm not the ferret with a nail being clipped to the quick, I can't honestly say how painful it is. I watch our shelter operator do it all the time and the ferret barely seems to notice. I think it beats the stress of going to the vet, anesthesia, or the struggle without anesthesia to get it from a leg or neck. > day. She acts wonderful, eats well and is ready to play whenever I > am. The problem is her blood sugar is still in the 40's. Have any of > you had a ferret with such a low blood sugar and have them act so > well? I believe it has to do with how gradual the low level is reached. If a ferret that has a relatively normal blood glucose level and it suddenly drops to 40, I'm sure you would see the classic symptoms, maybe even including seizure. But if the level drops gradually over a long period of time, the ferret's body adjusts to the low level and can handle it better. Beasley's blood glucose has been tested at 25mg/dL (that's not a typo) and he has shown no symptoms. Sure, he didn't have boundless energy, but there was no hypersalivation, hind leg weakness, spaced out look, etc., etc. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Visit our shelter's web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Visit the Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/FHC 4. Subject: Hair regrowth From: "Michael F. Janke" Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:33:55 -0400 > 1. Subject: Brandy is showing signs of fur regrowth > From: Vicki Eller > Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 21:29:14 -0700 (PDT) We often see adrenal ferrets grow back their hair for no apparent reason, that is, without any sort of treatment. Unfortunately, it's usually only temporary. Sometimes it stays in remission for long periods of time, but eventually it rears its ugly head. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Visit our shelter's web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Visit the Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/FHC 5. Subject: Ben From: FHbytheSea@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 06:39:39 EDT Hi everyone! Its been very hectic and I meant to post this earlier.....both as a reminder and warning about male ferrets and adrenals... Ben and Phoebe were turned into the local SPCA and I went and picked them up. Ben was a 6 year old, adrenal male - Phoebe a normal 2 year old. He had the classic alopecia - his head, his feet and thinning along his back. Very dandruffy fur. We noticed almost right away that he was having trouble urinating. I went to more thoroughly examine him, and found that his bladder was very full. He was straining, and nothing was coming out. I ran very warm water in the sink, up to his ribcage and immersed him, then very carefully began expressing his bladder. (If you are not familiar with how to do this - please be very careful. Its possible to rupture the bladder if done improperly). Greenish-yellow pus, about the consistency of a milkshake, seeped out slowly. I continued to express him until I had gotten out about 5cc - called the vet and brought him in. His prostate was so swollen and enlarged, it completely blocked his urethra. He literally could not pee without assistance. Surgery was scheduled for the next day. The docs removed his left adrenal, a suspicious node on his pancreas, and rerouted his urethra. Poor Ben has two incisions - but happily, came through the surgery like a trooper. Its amazing to see how quickly he bounced back from such a difficult and involved surgery.We are hoping for a full recovery. So, please - if you have a male ferret that has adrenals, or is suspected of having adrenals - please monitor him carefully. If you see him begin to strain, get him examined by a vet. My vets suspect that he was having difficulty in urinating for at least 3 months, and most likely the reason he was turned into the SPCA. Such a shame - he is a good ferret - gentle and well mannered - but I guess sometimes money gets in the way of loyalty and responsibility. Lisa, Head Ferret The Ferret Haven "By-the-Sea" URL: http: www.kozykingdom.com/ferrethaven Want to help The Ferret Haven By-the-Sea? Register at iGive.com by cutting and pasting this link: http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?CID1236&MID854 6. Subject: Gadzook and Petey (urgent case) From: WGHOL@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:45:05 EDT In a message dated 7/13/99 1:04:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Lynn McIntosh << He's six, so recovery is expected to take longer. Anyone else have a similar reaction to bi-adrenalectomy and how did it turn out (though they're all different). >> Stinki, who is five, had major exploratory surgery at the end of May. She has liver disease, an enlarged spleen, and right adrenal disease. She started Lupron in June. When she came home from after the surgery she was extremely depressed. She was obviously in pain and I worried she would not make it through the night. After several days she began to move around and has been slow to recover. Even today she is still not eating on her own, and has many speed bump episodes, and tires easily. She is hand fed "turkey soup" through out the day, and will only chew a crunchy now and then. I believe the advanced ages of our babies, (stinki and gadzooks), is part of the problem. Sounds like he had a major surgery, and will need much time to recover fully. I'd suggest patience and lots of TLC for Gadzooks just now. You may find he takes several months to get over this hump. Keep up the feedings, and keep him quiet for the rest of the week. Simplify everything for him, ie... low hammocks, no ramps to climb, quiet undisturbed sleeping areas, low litter boxes, or newspaper. I'd keep the other fuzzies away from him for a while as well. The best thing is rest, rest, rest. It did Stinki the world of good to not have to put herself out in anyway. Best of luck with all your fur-kids !!! Stinki and I will be including them in our prayers tonight !! W... 7. Subject: Gadzook and Petey Update From: Lynn McIntosh Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:45:05 EDT Hi. Just a quick update so I can get some sleep. Since Gadzook blocked up two weeks ago I feel like I've been running from one task to another, frantically, putting out ferret medical fires. Just as we were getting Gadzook into surgery, Petey started to crash. Then 5-year-old littl (1 1/4 pounds) Minnie was discovered in mouth-pawing distress, and it turns out her congenital heart murmur is beginning to show symtoms; her little chest in spots sounds like a booming Niagra Falls, but our vet says it sounds worse than it is and Minnie is now getting Lasix and feeling better. Whereas two weeks ago my Sweet Six were doing fine, today is a different story, but could be worse. Gadzook, whose urinary tract two Fridays ago blocked seemingly out of the blue (though there were probably signs we didn't catch; he's one of those guys who tries to trick us out of raisins by backing into the box) had both adrenals removed and a vena cava ligation done last Thursday; he's recovering slowly, but doing quite well for six years old. He's getting a low dose of pediapred and we may start him on florinef soon. He's not eating hard food, which bothers me, and still has some abdominal pain, but is drinking with good output in both regards, and getting around well, so he graduated out of the hospital cage tonight. An ultasound showed Petey has hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (fibers growing inside the heart and decreasing the ventricle space). No heart murmur was ever heard, nor did his heart appeared enlarged. A second x-ray finally revealed some fluid in the lungs and at that point he went downhill fast. A biopsy of his huge spleen revealed no lymphoma - good news :) He also has a large left adrenal growth. He's on three heart medications and is doing a bit better, but still practically immobile; our vet said it can take two weeks for these meds to start working. I have a baby bed that is cushioned and with a zip cover and padded handles, with a plywood board that slides into a fitted pocket underneath. I carry him about so he is included in our activities and it seems to perk him up. Of all the ferrets (or animals) I've met he is the purest and sweetest soul. He was exiled as a youngster to a childs bedroom, then to his cage, then to a summer home for months where a housecleaner with a whiny voice dispised him. Perhaps some of the stress contributed to what could well be a congenital, and perhaps genetic, condition. I'm exhausted. Once during this time I didn't eat for two days (which doesn't bother me because I like to fast and believe it's cleansing, but some sleep would have helped). Any comments on the fur kids will be appreciated. And to those kind souls who have written and not heard back I say thank you, thank you. The messages have been cheering and heartening. Oh oh, falling asleep. Fuzzy hugs, Lynn 8. Subject: Fur regrowth From: "Silver Eagle" Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:06:10 -0400 This is for Vicky, but I though that others may want to hear or should I say read my opinion. I am not a vet,but if I had some regrowth I'd be happy. I would assume that the surgery worked and Brandy is feeling better. Of course the best way to judge how Brandy is feeling is to watch her behaviour. If she is eating and drinking well and staying up and playing for decent periods of time, I'd say she was still feeling pretty good. It really depends a lot on the results of the test on the tumour that was removed. Did you have it tested? That is a pretty good indication of her prognosis. If the left gland was benign, there's a pretty good chance that the other nodule is too. I have a 7 year old names Moxy. If you have been reading this list for very long, you may remember reading about her. In Sept of "98 she had her left adrenal removed. I paid extra to have it sent away and tested and it was positive for adrenalcortical carcinoma. All I could do was to sit back and hope that they "got it all" and pray that she recovered. Moxy did really well. I started her on some herbal cancer remedies ( which she hates taking, so I have to hide them in duck soup which she loves ) and generally she seemed to be feeling good. She never lost her appetite at all and never lost any weight, and seemed to play with the the other guys OK. She did get tired faster, but that could be her age as much as anything else. She also grew most of her hair back, except for a tiny bit on the end of her tail. She had been pretty darn bald too. She had been shaved for blood work and surgery, so she really didn't have much hair at all. Now it is Now, here we are 10 months later. She is 7 years and 4 months old and she is showing sign of the right adrenal causing problems. Her tail is almost completely bald again and her vulva is swollen. She is still on all of the herbal remedies, but she is now a very poor candidate for surgery. I did take her to the vet and she said that because we know the last adrenal was cancerous, we can pretty much figure that the cancer has spread. The vet does not want to operate because she is afraid that we will lose Moxy on the operating table. For now Moxy is still feeling well. Her appetite is still good, and she still does a pretty mean war dance, although not as often as she used to. All I can do now is give her the best quality life that I can. I love her to pieces ( she is my first ferret ) and she is still a really good kisser. It breaks my heart knowing that sometime, sooner than I think I may have to make that decision that we ALL dread. I do love her enough to make that decision when the time does come. Moxy is really special to me and I will do whatever I have to to make her comfortable and happy. She has given me more joy and unconditional love than any one person deserves, and I hope she sticks around for a lot longer.20 So, I guess what I'm trying to say is love your Brandy and give her the best life that you can. Maybe another trip to the vet, can tell you what you need to know, or at least, if that nodule has started to cause Brandy problems. Maybe she would be a good candidate for further surgery or even Lupron. I wish you the best of luck with Brandy and my prayers and thoughts are with you both as well as they are with all who have sick or hurt ferrets.20 I would also humbly ask for prayers and good wishes for my Moxy girl from anyone out there who might have some extra to spare. Now I have to go and fix her some of her "Duck soup" Love to all Fuzzies and their pet Humans. Sally St. Germain and her 10 "Little Saints."20 Hi.....my name is Sally.....I am a ferret-a-holic!!!!! 9. Subject: mast cell tumors From: Glenn Johnson Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 19:15:22 -0700 Friends of the ferret, Concerning the removal of MC tumors: Chuki's last MC tumor was removed by surgery. It was no larger than a quarter inch across and he ended up with eight stitches. Now he has another, under his arm. Yes, Chuki has arms and hands, legs and feet. Other than the fact that nothing is left for pathology (pretty much useless, anyway) why can't they be burned off with an electric needle? Anyone had experience with this? Glenn and Chuki 10. Subject: SNOWFLAKE HAS JOINED THE CLOSET THIEVES From: "Grant, Lillian" Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:19:59 -0700 Howdy All! Hope all is well with you all & yours. Our Good Thoughts & Prayers for those who are experiencing health problems. Also, Our Condolences to those who have recently lost a sweet little angel. To start with, Moose was unable to rejoin Sabine (World Ferret Organization) in the Netherlands, but found a permanent home with us. He has become Spanky best friend and medicine, for the depression he was falling into after Claudia, the Monarch of Our Group and My Little Angel, passed over last month. Actually he's what the doctor ordered. He is so full of it and keeps everyone hoping. Two months ago, Chris K., Ferret Anonymous Lost & Found was contacted about a DEW female who showed up in a Retirement Home Recreation Room and promptly hop into an elderly gentleman lap & took a nap. His daughter took her home, and contacted Chris, learned what to do, not to do, proper food, etc. No one came forth to claim her. They named her "White Booger" (in Spanish). After 2 months, they decided she needed a home with other ferrets and she came to me. I'm not sure what her age is yet, but she is full grown, sports a beauty mark under her left eye and one on the top of her head. She has such huge eyes. Her tail is short and the tip is missing hair and looks like blackheads. I have since given her a bath and she turned out rather pretty. The main concern I have is I noticed her nose was dripping clear fluid. Her nose remains wet. She is NOT sneezing or coughing. She isn't very active, I thought, at first maybe depressed because she has been left. With her noise dripping, I have kept her separated from the rest, let her out to play by herself. Took her to see my Vet and he noticed she has a hernia, most likely ran over by a bicycle. She is suppose to go back to him next week to have the hernia repaired. In the week she has been with us, she is really coming out more and more, and looking better each and every day. She is a real sweetie. Has anyone had a ferret with a drippy nose, no coughing or sneezing. The fluid is clear? Your help would be appreciated. Stephanie & My Little Band Of Closet Thieves: Spanky, Moose, SnowFlake, George & Gracie + Sam, Claudia, & Scarlett O'Ferret @ Rainbow Bridge ------------------- End of FAIML #313 ----------------------