From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 1999 8:05 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #314; July 21, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #314; July 21, 1999 Hi. I'm sorry to be so late getting the list out. We've been battling cardiomyopathy in our sweet Petey, and tonight we lost the battle. Of all the animals I've met he had the sweetest, kindest soul, and he galloped like a little pony, and cried just like a little baby. He had the most beautiful crooked little jaw, giving him the sweetest smile. And, he loved to kiss forever. He was a true love. Goodbye my sweet Sneaky Pete. I will write more later. Fuzzy hugs, great big ones, Lynn 1. Benji's surgery, etc. 2. Buzz's lymph nodes/glucose test 3. coping w/both 4. Embrace Your Paranoia 5. Tense Abdomens 6. Does Sexual Behavior always adrenal?? 7. Spleen surgery 8. response to bilateral adrenal and drippy nose 9. RE: FAIML #312; July 13, 1999 TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: Benji's surgery, etc. From: Christine Bertch Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 18:59:08 -0700 Benji just had his surgery the day before yesterday and at first we were very optimistic. The doctor saw a healthy looking pancreas except for one nodule and we thought that was it. Unfortunately, we received the pathology report back today and it turned out that the nodule that was removed was not an insulinoma. So the tumor(s) are still there. :( Benji is actually doing wonderfully after the surgery, but I am very sad this didn't work. We are going to treat him medically now, especially since removing any more of the pancreas would just be a guessing game--who knows where the tumor(s) might be. To make matters worse, Benji's cagemate Rikki is not eating so we need to find out what problems she might have. This has been a very upsetting day for all of us... Best wishes to everyone else whose fuzzies are going through difficult times too...let's hope things get better soon! Christine and Benji, Rikki, Missy, Fiona, Jezebel and Wuzzitt 2. Subject: Buzz's lymph nodes/glucose test From: "Vicki L. Henderson" Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 19:12:00 -0400 Please disregard last post, Buzz's vet is concerned that the swellings in his neck and front leg pits are lymph nodes, they have been getting larger, and she said that the blood test doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't have lymphoma, just that it hasn't spread to his blood stream yet. His glucose reading after a 4 hr fast was 71.6, which is lower than his original glucose reading when he wasn't on prednisone. So, prednisone dose got upped from .5cc's twice daily to .7 cc's twice daily. We are keeping an eye on the swollen lymph nodes, and he is having another fasting (2 hrs this time) glucose test in 3 weeks, along with his brother in case this is a hereditary disease. He still isn't eating on his own, might pick up a piece of kibble every once in a great while, still feeding him Bob Church's chicken gravy mixed with "meat" only baby food, and brewers yeast with garlic. -- Vicki L. Henderson-a.k.a. Ferret Fanatic The Fearless FLO! Buzz, Woody, Miss Tizzy, Ginger & General Kaos! http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Flats/2373/ Our Furry Felines! Jinx and Tygger AIM: FerFanatic ICQ: #11898312 3. Subject: coping w/both From: "erika vinson" Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 10:25:49 -0700 I just lost one to adrenal June 1, 1999, now another is showing symptoms. She is old and blind, although in good health otherwise. Would prefer not to put her thru surgery, but will do all that I can for her. She, and the one I just lost were my very first fuzzies. My 7+ yr male was diagnosed w/ insulinoma on June21,1999. He is on .25mg of predizone and seems to do well for now. Any new info on these diseases would be appreciated, please - I am losing my mind, as well as my babies!!! Thanks for your help!! evinson@theremc.com 4. Subject: Embrace Your Paranoia From: KTrythall@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:45:08 EDT My months of paranoia and observation have paid off. Teddy (my four year old dark sable) had exploratory surgery on Monday. He had most of his right adrenal removed (left one was taken last year) and the vet found "the biggest hairball I have ever seen" in a ferret. Despite regular hairball treatments for the last 1.5 years that he has been with me, Teddy had a 4-5" hairball taking up most of his stomach. It looked like a dead mouse. Ewwwww. His only symptoms through all of this was a gradual weight loss and an increase in aggression. He was on baby food for 3 days while the incision in his stomach healed. The abdominal incision started pulling together on the 2nd day. And amazingly, he is growing a little bit of hair already on his bald tummy. I can't tell you how relieved I am to know what was wrong and to finally get it fixed. So, embrace your paranoia. Keep giving that hairball remedy. Ask the vet any question you darn well feel like. By the way, my vet doesn't think I am paranoid, just informed and vigilant. Thanks to this forum, the FML and FFML, I have more info and my ferrets get even better care. Thanks everyone! Kelly Cece, Teddy, Sidney, Jack and Angel 5. Subject: Tense Abdomens From: "meagan quinn" Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 10:14:39 EDT Hi again! i just posted about fezzik and i figure i better ask this question while my fingers are into typing mode. My 4 yr. old sprite, Keera had surgery in March by Dr. Weiss. He took out two huge tumors on both side. She no longer has her left adrenal and only 40% of her right is remaining. Her post op went well. She bounced back and so did her energy. Then he stitches came out and she became sedate again but she DID grow in her winter coat (it was April but she didn't care!) We tested her sodium potassium level-it was fine. So he put her on pediapred (.5ml/day) Her energy level increased a bit--but not to the psycho i had previous to the adrenal disease. I tried to wean off--it didn't work. We are back to .5ml pediapred once/day. She got heavier--but i think it is b/c my housemate gave her ducksoup with whipping cream (didn't realize it would make her fat) Now I am trying to get her weight down.The vet remarked she has a very tense abdomen. She was right!! her spleen is normal and nothing to worry about they said at her checkup last month. I am exercising her everyday and I am cutting down on the fatty food she gets. My questions is: her abdomen was never like this before. And she has never been this lethargic. her vulva is normal but her winter coat STILL hasn't shed (i heard that ferrets won't change coats if there is stressors in their body preventing it) Is it from the surgery? Some days she will get up for an hour and return to sleep most of the day unless I engage her in activity she prefers to watch (her BG is 135 by the way--so insulinoma is ruled out for now) What could make her abdomen this tense? She isnt so active that she is muscule. Also: I am planning on taking her to the new wonderful vet i have learned about (Dr. Weiss is 5 hours away and my vet is a fool) BUT I would like to know the tests he shoudl be running. She eats and poops normal. She is lethargic but her BG is fine. Do i need an ultrasound? Xrays? I don't know what to do. She doesn't seem like she is interesting in being a ferret anymore. Her eyes rarely have that sparkle unless I find something TOTALLY new for her--even wrestling with the boys she no longer initiates! I'm at a loss wow. i didn't realize i wrote so much or that there really was so much wrong with her. She isn't critical so it has been slowing adding up...ihope someone can write me and let me know their experiences postops not gaining their energy bck and what the solution was. Thank you again!!! meg 6. Subject: Does Sexual Behavior always adrenal?? From: "meagan quinn" Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:55:38 EDT Hi all! I have finally caught up on my FAIMLs, my FMLs and FFMLs (i think). I never knew that a few days of not checking in would set me so behind! :) Thank you every one for your help with finding the rescues a home. And thank you Lynn for posting the note on the FAIML--i know it wasn't EXACTLY adren/insol. related--for those wondering they have been brought to KiSta (northern branch) in NJ and Clyde is awaiting her adrenal surgery as soon as things settle down there. During this whole busy time--fezzik lost hiswinter coat--but the summer coat is kinda funny (clue #1 ??) His long dark guard hairs are gone and he has a think undercoat (cream). The black ones aren't all grown in. It looks funny--definately an inbetween coat. I am wondering when it will grow back in. THEN my alarms went off... this am (sat.) fezzik was trying to convince keera to play when osaw fezzik grab keera behind on the back and make thrusting motions. since i have never seen ferrets mate before (all of 3 my gang are neutered/spayed) i thought he was just trying to get a better grip. (as my grandpa always said: de nile ain't just a river in egypt!) Anyway, it became aparent that he was continuing to do this. I didn't know if i should stop it or not. Keera just lay there, sedate (speed bump mode). I tried to get close enough to see if i was seeing what i thought i was seeing. Yes, i was. He crawled up and bit heron hte head (i can only compare it to the lions mating that i saw on animal plantet). Then he bit her on the neck and tried to do it again. they split up as I went to separate them--fezzik wanted out of my arms, but i didn't see his penissticking out or anything. Keera ran to the little box. I checked her (would he be able to penetrate her if he is neutered?) Anyway--i guess my question is---is there anyway that this is NOT adrenal? He is a 3.75yr.old MF male. Neutered and Descented. I have never seen this behavior by him before, nor anything even slightly similar to it. I called the best vet I could find in the area (Dr Luckow) since I no longer will go to my vet...but they are closed till Monday. I am looking for straining when he urinates but like Lynn said a few issues ago--sometimes he does the fakeout for a treat trick I appreciate ANY info you can give me. I am pretty worried about the little/big guy. Keera too--how long will she have to deal with this? :) Meagan Q in NY (another visit to Dr. Weiss ) with Manly Man Fezzik, sedate Keera and clueless Haggis 7. Subject: Spleen surgery From: WIEBEASSOC@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 15:34:03 EDT Thought a little update on our Derek's spleen removal might help allay some fears of such an operation on their own ferret. Those who read the FML will already know about Derek.... Derek, a four year old male, was showing an increasingly larger spleen and our vet thought it was time to remove it. A week ago yesterday he had it removed and the vet said that after weighing it he calculated the spleen represented 27% of Derek's pre-operation weight. It was also very close to rupturing, so the timing was excellent. Understandably, we were apprehensive about the operation but saw no option. The surgery went exceedingly well and Derek came home a week ago this morning. He understandably slept quite a bit for the first day or two but gradually emerged from his temporary home in an isolation cage, away from his cage mate, Layla. The first thing we noticed was his appetite. He has been eating like a horse. Really eating! We use Sheppard & Green ferret food and both ferrets seem to be doing well with it. Before the operation, Derek liked Ferretone on top of his food, but now he eats it plain. Of course, he still likes a few licks of Ferretone as a reward for something. Three or four days after the operation we placed his cage on the floor so he could exit it on his own if he wished. He came out and began to walk about, albeit a little unsteadily (having lost all that mass must have thrown off his center of gravity), but navigated quite well. The other thing we noticed was he regained the characteristic humped back of a ferret! With that huge spleen he had none. Now, a week later, he's just about his old self and gets around the house not upstairs yet) without any problem. He continues to eat well. He was always a sleeper and hasn't changed that much that we can see, but he certainly must still be recovering. Next week the stitches come out and a post-op checkup. We're hoping all will be better for the guy now. The vet looked at the adrenals and saw no problems there, though he did comment on a small cyst on one of his kidneys, but didn't seem too concerned over it. Wait and see is the message. So, Derek has been recovering well. We are expecting him to be back to normal in a week or so. For those of you that are faced with a similar operation on one of your ferts, apparently the surgery isn't that difficult (so the vet says) and his experience is that others that have their spleen removed say their ferret is once again like a two year old. Take care of those little guys. We're all they have! Al Wiebe 8. Subject: response to bilateral adrenal and drippy nose From: "Brandi Harrison" Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 10:25:35 -0500 This is a response to two things > Has anyone had a ferret with a drippy nose, no coughing or sneezing. > The fluid is clear? Your help would be appreciated. > > Stephanie & My Little Band Of Closet Thieves: > Spanky, Moose, SnowFlake, George & Gracie > + Sam, Claudia, & Scarlett O'Ferret @ Rainbow Bridge Not saying it couldn't be something else...but this is what we have had. Pookie, our health-challenged sweetheart, has allergies. She has a really moist nose that drips sometimes. She weighes just over a pound and get .05CC of children's Benedryl morning and night to help. I was told that clear is usually good, it's the yellow or yellow-green snot that really indicates a problem, similar to humans. On the bilateral, Pookie was young just about 1 year when she had her surgery. From reading many of the posts here, I think she had a great recovery. She was up and wobbling around a little that night. She ate her TF just fine and drank water just fine within about 4 hours of the surgery. I said up the entire night with her the first night and would carry her to her newspaper and hold her food and water for her to eat and drink so she wouldn't have to walk. Then Mom took over the duties in the morning. We minimized the effort she would have to make for the first 4 days. By then she was up and around and doing quite well. We did keep her away from the others, except for 1 on 1 supervised visits, both for her and them. They knew something was going on and acted weird, like they were worried. They would sniff her then sniff her incision and then dance for her and lay down beside her. It was the wildest thing I've experienced where animals are concerned. Hope all the fuzzies out there are doing well. Brandi and Scott, Pookie, Bandit, Ruby, Loki, Sugar, and Tigger and Puck, who lives on in our memories. P.S. we are moving to about 1 hour east of knoxville, tn, if you can recommend any kind of ferret related services let me know. Vets, stores, sitters, anything... If I've contacted you personally just ignore this. Thanks!!!!! 9. Subject: RE: FAIML #312; July 13, 1999 From: "Michael F. Janke" Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 20:44:26 -0400 > 2. Subject: insulinoma blood sugar testing > From: LuAnn McCann > I took him in yesterday for a bg check our vet (whom I consider > rather ferret knowledgable, he interned w/Susan Brown) said he > couldn't get any blood from Fred to test, and didn't want to clip > the quick and use a glucoe meter because they usually read low. Now, > am I off my rocker or don't all ferret vets use this method? I don't know what machine my clinic uses to test the blood glucose, but they won't clip a nail short. They prefer to give the ferret a wiff of isoflurane and take it from their jugular. I don't like that method. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Visit our shelter's web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Visit the Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/FHC ---------------------- End of FAIML #314 --------------------------