From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Monday, July 26, 1999 6:15 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #316; July 26, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #316; July 26, 1999 1. Ideas for Bandit? 2. hi and Lupron question 3. New to the list, with a sick boy 4. aggressive fibrosarcoma (sigh) 5. Unexpected tragedy 6. Re: FAIML #314; July 21, 1999 (Keera) TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: Ideas for Bandit? From: LDarkes@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:44:08 EDT Some of you may remember Bandit's history, but a quick recap: He was diagnosed with insulinoma in 10/97 and had surgery soon following. He recovered well from the surgery and was able to maintain his blood sugar for about six months w/o meds. When it started to drop, we started him on pred, when he did fine on for another six months, when he had a diabetic reaction to the pred, (blood glucose 300+!) Obviously we discontinued the pred. immediately. Since then which was about a year ago (9/98), his glucose has stayed stable with just supplemental feedings of his "mush", which has developed into a mixture of Timmy's recipe, Insulinoma elixir and Bob's Chicken Gravy. Well, the time I've been dreading has come, although I must admit he stayed stable without meds for far longer than I had dared to hope. He's been showing increasing signs of back leg weakness during the past few weeks and yesterday's bg test confirmed VERY low levels. Dr. Welborn ran the tests three times and they were 33, 26 and 46. Obviously, we need to intervene here. For the short term, I've started him on pred again, but this will not work as a long term solution due to his previous difficulty with it. I know about proglycem and Dr. W is looking into cost and dosage of that for me. I'm curious though about opinions on repeating the surgery. Bandit will be 7 yrs old in October. I *think* he's in fairly good health for his age (he's my oldest so I have none to compare him to). Other than the insulinoma, no medical problems that we know of except that he's (ahem) rather on the chubby side right now due to his low activity level recently. I haven't yet talked to Dr. W about surgery -- I don't know how the excess fat would come into play in making surgery more difficult. We've also come to the conclusion that Bandit is pretty much blind. He's been walking into things, and seems to pretty much navigate by touch and smell, and hearing. Has anyone heard of this being related to insulinoma, like diabetics have vision problems? He doesn't have cataracts, Dr. W. checked for this. Please let me know what your thoughts are on surgery vs. medication for Bandit. We appreciate your help! Lucie @-"-@ (=^ ' ^ =) o00 -\o/- 00o 2. Subject: hi and Lupron question From: Mohr Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:07:47 -0500 First things first... Lupron question: How long does it usually take between administration of the drug and reversal of symptoms? Now for the whole story... Hi, everyone, and all that. I just joined the list, and this is my first post. We have seven little monster babies -- five of the mustelid persuasion and two of the feline. I thought about titling this post "yanking our *own* hair out in frustration and worry"! Here is what's brought me to the FAIML, specifically. Our 5 year old sprite, Squirt (we didn't name her ), has been presenting adrenal symptoms for about three to four months. Her vulva is hugely swollen, she's been progressively losing weight, and the fur on her shoulders is thinning. At the beginning of June, she had surgery, since she is (or at least was then) a good candidate. The vet took out the left adrenal, saying it was "somewhat" enlarged, but left the right. He couldn't find any ovarian tissue, etc., though I know that's difficult to spot sometimes. Surgery did *nothing* for the poor baby. We are seven weeks post-op, and she's just getting worse. We are having an ultrasound done this week to see if her right gland is enlarged, but in the meantime we decided to go with a dose of Lupron, because I didn't want to wait any longer. I was afraid she might die while we were fumbling around trying to decide what to do. We bought one dose from Professional Arts Pharmacy, 4 month depot, 2 mg, etc. (for, IMHO, *way* too much money) and had it administered Saturday. So far, no change. Argh. If the ultrasound shows that the right adrenal is enlarged, the vet will go in again and "debulk" it. He doesn't want to try ligating (sp?) the vena cava, and I don't want him to! I guess I just don't understand why her symptoms haven't reversed. She's down from 2 lbs at her healthy weight to 1 lb, 5 oz Saturday. I'm very worried. -Tasha 3. Subject: New to the list, with a sick boy From: "Leslie Sturla" Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 06:44:47 -0100 Hi I'm Les and I'm the proud "human" of two boys, Samhain (6yrs) and lb. (yes it's spelt lb. but pronounced "pound"... it stands for Little Bastard, and if you knew this 3 year old when he was a kit, you'd know how he got that monaker!) Sam was diagnosed with insulinoma/cancer two weeks ago. I feel like the worst owner in the world. I didn't notice the symptoms until he was already having seizures. I just figured the fatigue was due to his age and the heat. I live in a small city. My vet and the other drs. at the Brockville Animal Hospital have been great with my boys, but they don't have a lot of experience with ferrets. They've contacted a specialist in Ottawa (about an hour and half from here). The concensus is NOT to go with surgery, given Sam's age. His blood sugar tested bellow 40. He's on the lowest dose of Pediapred and I'm taking him in for another test in a week and a half. I'm torn over the surgery. Sam is the best, absolute best. He's brave and crazy, but getting needles causes him to go into shock--Surgery scares the heck out of me. I'd do it in a minute if I knew he'd be cured but there's no guarentee. I don't want to put us through it if it's not going to save him. But I don't want to dismiss it either. I need some sober advice. He's responding well to the meds. Still alittle tired, but no "episodes" that I'm aware of (I work LONG hrs...I hate being away from him!) Any suggestions to improve his quality of life are appreciated. My heart goes out to those of you who have lost--It's nice to know there is a forum for us! Lesley, Samhain and lb. 4. Subject: aggressive fibrosarcoma (sigh) From: miralia@juno.com Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 16:54:28 -0400 Hi all. Well, many of you know I lost my Bean last month to aggressive adeno carcinoma. (Actually, the surgery technically is what killed her, but she didn't have much time as it was... :-( I miss her.) Only a week after Bean died, my other female Snoo had surgery to remove an orange-sized fibrosarcoma from her abdomen. It wasn't attached to any major organs... but it came back a month later, this time resembling a large bunch of grapes. We removed it again. The tumor is being sent to Williams, but the first pathologist says it's very aggressive and malignant... (sigh.) She had adrenal surgery (debulking on the right and removal of the left) a year and a half ago, and she's been on Lupron since late Feb. I've also got her on some homeopathic meds (Dr Loops lives nearby) and shark cartilage, Essiac, vitamin C, Timmy's Tonic, and other antioxidants. My traditional vet gives Snoo very little time... perhaps a few weeks or months. Does anyone have any suggestions? And has anyone seen this before? It has NOT metastisized into any organs at this point... I'm hoping somehow it will just kill itself off... the pathology showed it was growing so fast that it was cutting off it's own blood supply in places. (But that doesn't mean a whole lot.) Ideas? (And can someone forward this to the regular FML for me, pretty please, with my email intact? I'm not on there anymore due to the volume, but I need all the help I can get.) -Andrea miralia@juno.com (919) 309 - 9288 (messages) 5. Subject: Unexpected tragedy From: Christine Bertch Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:08:35 -0700 I posted last about the results of Benji's insulinoma surgery, and briefly mentioned a problem with our other ferret, Rikki, not eating. It is with shock and sadness now, though, that I have to tell you that Rikki, Benji's best friend and cage mate passed away suddenly last Sunday night. I was paying so much attention to Benji after his surgery that I didn't pay enough attention to Rikki. When I took her to the vet because of her weight loss and diarrhea, he tried to get blood from her to do a blood panel. Her veins were so tiny, he couldn't get the blood. He told me to give her pred to see if it stimulated her appetite over the weekend and we'd try again. The next day, Sunday, I knew I needed to start force feeding her rather than wait any longer, so I gave her Ensure throughout the day, after offering her everything else I thought she might eat on her own. She was sleeping most of the day and when I took her out in the evening, she couldn't even get up. I rushed her to the emergency clinic immediately. That vet tried to get into her vein too, at least to give her IV fluids (she became very dehydrated quickly) but she couldn't do it either. She told me she'd try to give her fluids under the skin and perhaps be able to get into the vein later, but that it was less effective than IV fluids and that she didn't have much of a chance of surviving. When I looked at her frail little body for the last time, all I could think about was how it was my fault. Then I kissed her nose and said goodbye. I thought we'd give them a couple hours and if they couldn't do anything for her, we'd bring her home to be with her family. Not long after we got home, the vet called to tell us she had passed away. I feel like I made so many mistakes. I have never let my animals die alone. I left her there. I should have at least let Benji stay with her. I didn't even let them say goodbye. I should have taken her in sooner...I shouldn't have force fed her when all it did was cause her more suffering. I should have known she'd be dehydrated--I know better. I feel so much pain for her. We have only had Benji and Rikki (both over six years old) for a little over a month. We were told they were always so healthy, and they looked that way. But moving to a totally different environment at this age obviously was stressful. They seemed to adjust quite well, but then Benji began having problems. Rikki was dancing and playing a week ago--I wish I could see her do that again. We had a necropsy done to find out the cause of her death and all that was found was that she had some kind of degenerative disease in the liver and kidneys but we have no idea why or what the progression of the disease was. I feel so bad about Rikki. She was always so sweet, I know I wasn't good enough for her. And I feel so bad for Benji, who has been looking all over the house for his best friend. My heart goes out to others who have had losses recently, for even though I didn't have her long, I feel a terrible sense of loss as if I had had her for years. A few days have passed and Benji is actually improving quite a bit. He has a lot more energy and is eating well (though not on his own yet). We brought Missy (our adrenal survivor) from my mom's house to be his new friend since she is very quiet compared to the other three ferrets there and tended to be a loner. They get along ok and sleep together, but still have some adjusting to do. I hope this will keep Benji's mind off of his loss. Christine and Benji, missing Rikki 6. Subject: Re: FAIML #314; July 21, 1999 (Keera) From: WGHOL@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 21:14:23 EDT Could his "fixing" not have taken? I have heard this once before where the ferret was spayed, but it was a botched attempt. It could also be adrenal which brings aggression and sexual behavior out in full force. Let me know what the Doc says, and maybe you should keep him under close guard till you can figure it out. Poor Keera. W MODERATOR'S NOTE: I think this post should have gone out in the last list and was overlooked. I apologize to the poster (and to the person for whom it was meant). Lynn Mc. ------------------ End ---------------------