From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 6:32 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #318; July 29, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #318; July 29, 1999 1. Adrenal gland questions 2. Please help, lymphoma is back 3. diet suggestions, u/s results, Keera 4. Lupron Results 5. Connor's trip to the vet 6. adrenal hair loss or shedding 7. Update on Dusty and Ferris 8. Wally - Insulinoma Surgery - Is it too late? Please help me decide; Writing through grief TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: Adrenal gland questions From: "Christine Rozycki" Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:11:52 -0400 Hello everyone, My oldest ferret Norton, recently was diagnosed with an adrenal gland tumor. I just moved into this area (Morehead CIty, NC) and I'm trying to get a feel for vets. Can anyone suggest any great ferret vets in this area? Or know who I can ask? Norton is currently going to Dr. Taylor here in Morehead City, we have also seen Dr. Feeser in Greenville. I was more impressed with Dr. Feeser's care. Last week Nortie was having a difficult time going to the bathroom. I called the vet and they told me to bring him right over, so I was there within 10 minutes. They made me wait over an hour and a half. I could have strangled them!!! Luckily he was OK, but his little bladder could have burst at any minute! That's why I tend to think Dr. Taylor doesn't care for ferrets so much. I rushed to Greenville and Dr. Feeser did a ultrasound. Then went in for surgery after seeing a mass. Luckily she didn't have to cut him, and cleared it out. Anyway I want to know if this blockage could have been a result of his adrenal gland tumor. Dr. Feeser told me it was due to his diet, and that some cat foods tend to have too many minerals, which built up in his urinary tract. Is this true? I am trying to switch him to Marshall's Ferret Food (suggested by Dr. Feeser) but he hates it!! My other two ferries won't eat it either (Ralph and Piedmont). Any suggestions? Also, when Norton got x-rayed during his urinary tract blockage, Dr. Taylor mentioned something wrong with his heart, couldn't this be his adrenal gland (it's his right that has the tumor). I'm afraid to have Dr. Taylor do the surgery, I have heard of a guy in Durham who does alot of ferrets, Dr. Hudson. Anyone heard of him? Also, should I wait to have the surgery done after this tramatic episode last week? I don't want to put Nortie through too much. Anyone with any suggestions at all, please write me. Christine and Norton, Ralph and Piedmont 2. Subject: Please help, lymphoma is back From: "teri ronayne" Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:08:52 PDT Please, I would really like some advice about my liitle baby. He was diagnosed with Lymphoma last year and underwent chemo over the Xmas period. In February he was in remission. Recently, although he seems well, he has lost some hair and I just had a bad feeling so I took him in for a test. Just got the results back last night and his liver wasn't too great (presumably due to long term steroid use my vet thought) but his kidneys and red bloods were normal. His white bloods were only 1.8 (way below the minimum of 2.8) and half(!) of them were lymphites (sp?). The vet is having a think about the options today, but if anyone out there can give me some advice or suggestions I really would appreciate it. Spoekie seems pretty well just now, playing and generally happy (only 4.5yrs old)- is it a good idea to try the chemo again? Please help me out here - I can't cope without my baby. I'm bi-polar - he's my little angel - life without him just isn't worth it. Is there anyone out there who knows if anything can be done for him? perate, but I just don't know what's going to happen. Tracy J. Chamberlin McKessonHBOC Sr. Applications Analyst, STAR Radiology Development 3. Subject: Re: diet suggestions, u/s results, Keera From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 20:50:08 +0000 Dear Christine, >SNIP>. He is not > interested at all in his regular dry food and we made him a whole > recipe of Bob's chicken gravy but would you believe he won't touch > it??? It was quite the bear to make (we don't have a nice food > processor) and now we have a ton of it that he probably won't eat. > The "duck soup" recipe that he will eat is just an easy mixture of > science diet a/d, chicken baby food, and water. He doesn't even > really like it when we grind up his regular dry food and put a > little in the duck soup. Mix the chicken gravy with his normal duck soup, and make sure it is heated. Heating increases the odor, making it more palatable. Then either syringe or spoon feed until he starts taking it on his own. Because of the nausea involved with insulinoma, many ferrets will not eat unless coaxed. I think the gravy is a good sound diet for these ferrets. Tasha, > I'm concerned because the adrenal on the right may at some time > invade the vena cava. It's awfully close. My vet has said they > lost a dog who had Cushing's to an embolism because of this. It is not that common in ferrets - the mass is more likely to grow around the vessel than through. Meg, >SNIP> > > I am thinking of xrays--will that show a tumor if she has one? No, unfortunately. > Her BS was 132 last month. Up from 126. Is that high? I know it is > in the norm. range...but she has never been above 120 before. I wouldn't worry about it. He said > everything else sounds perfect. Her glands on her neck are swollen, > but they also could be fatty deposits (she is "robust"). He would > recommend a biopsy but b/c she is on Pred. that is midleading. what > to do what to do?? Watch and wait - fat deposits around the lymph nodes are vey common. It wouldn't be a bad idea to do a CBC and a careful exam of the peripheral blood smear for abnormal lymphocytes, just in case. -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com 4. Subject: Lupron Results From: "Chamberlin, Tracy" Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 10:25:54 -0400 This is my first post but I have been reading this listserv for awhile and I want to thank those who participate because it has given me some hope for my Nala. Nala got her first shot of Lupron this past Tuesday morning. She received the four month dose. The most amazing thing happened in two days. She finally stopped scratching incessantly...and grooming everyone and thing incessantly...and rubbing her crotch/tummy on everything. I really didn't expect to see results so soon, even my husband was surprised. Nala has been a slightly unusual ferret anyway, but her symptoms were unusual as well. She didn't get the patterned hair loss at the base of the tail until recently, her first sign was anemia. About one year ago she had her left adrenal removed and she got a little better but she still was anemic, scratched all the time, groomed everyone (she briefly stopped grooming socks without feet in them), rubbed her tummy on any object and generally had a "bad hair day" look to her. I am really hoping to see more improvement, but I am so pleased she is not acting as obsessively as before. Hopefully in the coming weeks we will see improvement to her hair and weight. 5. Subject: Connor's trip to the vet From: EquineAmy@aol.com Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:32:00 EDT Yesterday was a big day for us. Connor had to go back to the vet for his second shot of Lupron. I felt really good about the visit and when I saw the vet, I felt even better. They first did a blood test because last month Connor seemed a little anemic - he thinks that must have been a lab error because yesterday, his blood was perfect (smile #1). Then he told me that Connor had gained 1/4 of a pound (smile #2) - he is a big boy, but by no means is he fat - or skinny for that matter, but he would rather that he gain a 1/4 than lose it right now. Then he said that he was a little suspicious about a gland in his abdomen (not really sure what he was reallky talking about) from the first visit - it seemed a little swolen, but could have been caused by diareah - well (smile #3), there was NO swelling now. (Smile #4) Connor has a lot of hair regrowth with just one shot. We are stilll al ittle concerned with the fact that he is itchy, but here is where I need your help. Connor has been itchy all of his life. My two girls are itchy too. I do'nt bathe them that much (maybe every 2 weeks). The reason why the vet doesn't think he is tooooo itchy (like abnormal, adrenal caused itch) is becasue Connor DID have a skin rash - thought to be caused by scratching. Connor no longer has that rash, but I do still see him biting at himself -b ut my girls do that too. Does anyone have itchy healthy ferrets or do I j ust have strange ones? Dr. Sitinus really feels that Connor will make a full recovery - well as full as can be expected, but says that Connor is reacting WONDERFULY to the Lupron. I was reawlly excited yesterday to hear this. He is getting another ultrasound next month along with his last shot and hopefully they will only see good things on that ultrasound. I know this is getting long, but one more thing - and please to yell at me for this. Connor is part of an experiment that this vet is doing. They are trying to, according to what I understand, see if the Lupron kills the root cells of the cancer - they seem to be having very good luck. That is why I am a little optimistic. I know everyone keeps sending me emails saying it isn't a cure, but my vet is trying to figure out if it can be. I hope it can be. My feeling though is that even if it puts it into remission for 5 years lets say, ferrets don't live much past 8 or so. So if it "cures" them for 5 years, wouldn't you consider that a cure? And the other good thing for me right now is that I am a college student without much money.....connor being part of this experiment is saving me lots. I only pay $45 dollars per shot - the ultrasounds are on the vet. Okay, sorry so long, I tend to talk a lot when I am excited. Good luck to everyone!!!!!! Amy, Winnie, Chloe and Connor 6. Subject: adrenal hair loss or shedding From: "Steve McMall" Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:49:39 -0500 Is it too late in the year for shedding? None of our six ferrets have really ever gone through a shedding period. Because of the heat, the fuzzies stay inside, with the air conditioning on. Bear, a 4.5 year old male, started losing hair from the base of his tail this spring. We are pretty sure he has adrenal problems (we have been through left adrenal surgeries with two females, one in Dec., the other in Feb). He came down with a really bad case of ECE in April. He lost half of his body weight; was force-fed duck soup until about a month ago, when he finally began eating on his own. In other words, he has been too ill to put through surgery until he began to recover. He has gained some weight back, has more energy and stamina. He seems to be almost back to normal...........Until the last few days. Suddenly his fur seems to be coming out all over! You can pull out a tuft of fur easily. The hair on his back now looks blotchy. My question is: Can this simply be an off-season shedding. I know that adrenal ferrets can lose hair all over, but thought that usually it started in the tail (he lost the rump hair already) and shoulder area. Any comments or advice would be appreciated. Steve and Becky McMall Bear, Scamper, Snowball, Socks, Rascal and Shadow 7. Subject: Update on Dusty and Ferris From: Celeste Jacob Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 17:23:47 -0700 Hello Lynn and All, Its been about a month since I last posted about Dusty having an ultrasound for his swollen belly, which indicated an enlarged spleen (3x's normal size). Dusty is not a good candidate for surgery (to remove the spleen), as I almost lost him to the last one (partial pancreatectomy) in March, and I simply will not subject him to another, nor, I'm certain, would he even survive it! I decided to continue with Pred and my herb-supplemented variation of Gary's "Timmy's Recipe" for the Insulinoma and let him "go" naturally. At that point, the vet said he may have weeks or months left to live, just depending on how his body handles it. The night I brought him home from that visit, I picked up a book about herbs. It said that Barberry strengthens and cleanses the system and "...an interesting action is its ability to reduce an enlarged spleen." I started adding this in tincture form to the mush immediately. Within about 5-6 days, both Larry and I noticed that his stomach was smaller and much softer, no longer tight and taunt as before! We are shocked and amazed, and very very thankful. I continue to use it still, and I would say that if you have a baby who's been given a death sentence, try the herbs! They are completely natural, they can't hurt anything, you can't even O.D. on them, and they just may work!!! Overall, he is still weak, his bs remains low, he sleeps most of the time, and now seems quite boney to me, altho, I don't think he's lost any weight. The vet mentioned that prolonged use of Pred makes the skin thinner and bones more brittle, and perhaps that's what's happening. Also, he blew most of his coat with the stress of the last surgery and hasn't grown it back since, so the baldness makes him look bad, too. I just can't believe what a will my little sweetheart has to live. If I were as sick and struggling with these diseases as long as he has, I think I would have quit a long time ago. Not him, nope! He just keeps on going, and going, and... As for Ferris's CHRONIC diarrhea, I got him off of the Iams chicken and on ProPlan turkey dry food, at the suggestion of Dr. Karen that it could be a food alergy, and got a script from the vet for Imodium. It seemed to help some, his stool is somewhat firmer, a little larger, and not as grainy, but STILL not completely normal. I don't see what else can possibly be done, so as horrendous as it sounds, I'm pretty much giving up. When you go so far as to try every possible medication and even do surgery and come up with nothing, I'd say there's nothing left to try. He has no bacteria and no parasites, so neither the vet nor I have anything left in our bag of tricks to try. At least he's otherwise healthy and happy! Finally, to Meagan Quinn regarding your post about writing to our babies who've passed on. Thank you for the wonderful suggestion! I cried so much when I read it, but you are right, this can help release some of the pressure and anxiety from guilt that almost always accompanies grief. Talk about it, write about, scream at the top of your lungs, but whatever you do, get it out! Keeping those feelings bottled up can only lead to more stress, higher anxiety, and even physical illness. I love to write, and it has proven to be very good therapy for me. Thanks to this list, we have the perfect forum and supportive environment to do so. I'm sure Lynn would agree that the list, as well as its members individually, are here just as much for emotional support, as for medical. I thank you Lynn, Dr. Karen, each one of my e-friends who I've met thru this list and keep in touch with, and all of the contributors for your continued friendship and support over the last 15 months since I joined. Without you all, I'd be cluless and alone! :) In Love, Celeste, Dusty & Ferris (The Dooks of Hazard) :o) MODERATOR'S NOTE: Yes, I agree it's very much for emotional support, and I thank you for your kind words (and the many supportive e-mails you've written me personally). I would have never guessed in a million years this little support group would grow to more than 425 members, but it has. So, thanks to each and every one of you, too :) Fuzzy hugs. Lynn 8. Subject: Wally - Insulinoma Surgery - Is it too late? - please help me decide; writing through grief From: Lynn McIntosh Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:23:43 Hi there! Meagan and Celeste and all, each time we've lost a fur kid, I've sat down at some point before our special service and written a LONG, well, I call it a poem, but that's a loose description. It's really just a stream of consciousness piece filled with all my memories and many, many things that made that little fur kid so very special to us, like a letter. as a matter of fact it's always addressed to the one who's passed on, and ends with how much we'll miss them and all of our names. I light candles and read it before we bury our little guys in the little cemetery in the backyard. (My poor husband nearly melts with his tears into the couch). I'm a writer, so this comes very naturally to me, and is very healing. I have never read the letter poem again after a service, but may someday. I would REALLY like opinions about getting surgery for our Marshall Farm's fur boy Wally, who is six years old. He had exploratory surgery in August, 1997, after a high estradiol, hair loss, and other symptoms of adrenal disease. He had a HUGE right tumor, between golf- and racketball-sized. Our vet only got a needle biopsy as it oozed blood every time she tried to cut or biopsy it. It was only enough tissue to confirm adrenal, but she guessed it wasn't carcinoma or, at that size, would have killed him. She called it inoperable and we went on to successfully treat Wally with Lysodren (another reason it may not be carcinoma). The tumor is now a third the size and he's been on Lupron for about 10 months (100 mcg, which is now thought to be probably too low a dose for males) and is on Lysodren just one day per week. He's fully coated with no urinary problems, but does have bald feet (and his nose is balding - go figure!), and perhaps a tad of aggression. More notabley, he's also insulinomic, and has been on pediapred for about 15 months (showed first signs about a year-and-a-half ago). Maybe 10 months ago we started him on Proglycem, which he is still on. He's up to 1.5 ml pediapred 2x/day (6.7 mg/5 ml), and .4 ml Proglycem 2x/day (10 mg/ 1 ml). He's FAT, about 11 ounces overweight. We try to keep his feedings of chicken soup fairly small (and never see him drinking or eating on his own) but he's still fat. One mystery is he isn't dehydrated but we never see him drink (he gets some fluid from his soup and canteloup). He's having no breakthrough seizures and hasn't for sometime. But, we recently had to increase the pediapred by .25 ml to the dose mentioned above and he doesn't do much but waddle from here to there (no playing anymore). His hind legs sometimes slip out from underneath him on our wood floors, though he does fairly well on our one rug. So, though he loves to be held and climb into a high-sided basket after being fed where he rolls around, his quality of life isn't real high from my viewpoint. (Lately he's decided that he should go in the tubes, and gets stuck, poor baby!) He doesn't even enjoy walking outdoors anymore (though likes to lounge there) and makes a waddling beeline for the door. So. we're thinking about surgery. I'd love to hear if others have gotten surgery at this point and, if so, what the results were. Or, just what people think about Wally's chances. The main thing would be to see the pancreas and, at this point, probably take part of it (it's most likely spread all about), and then maybe do something about the adrenal tumor if possible. I worry, though, about his weight, time he's been on pred, amount of pred he's gotten and gets, the low blood sugar in regards to surgery, reactive diabetes. those things. I'd also be interested in hearing what pre-surgical tests people might recommend, if surgery is to be considered. Anyway, I'd love help on this as we're on the fence. Thank you all again for being here :) Lynn Mc. ------------------- End of FAIML #318 --------------------