From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 7:16 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #319; August 1, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #319; August 1, 1999 1. Letter writing and Benji 2. For Christine -- feeding chicken gravy/duck soup From: "norma and 3. Adrenal Success Rate 4. Re:blocked ferret, chemo, itchy ferrets, shedding, Wally 5. Tabitha 6. Re: urinary block et al TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: Letter writing and Benji From: Christine Bertch Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 16:29:09 -0700 I too have to agree that writing definitely helps get out the feelings like nothing else can. I wrote Rikki a letter the day after she passed away and it really helped a lot of the anxiety I felt over her death. I thought about burying it with her, but I wanted to remember how I felt and what I promised her I would change. Thank you all for your diet suggestions with Benji. He still won't have anything to do with anything we put in with the stuff I'm currently feeding him. He won't even eat his food if we mix in less than a teaspoon of the chicken gravy or even five pieces of dry food. I heat it every time as well. He needs more nutrition than what a/d and baby food can provide. We're guessing he just doesn't like anything lumpy in his food that he has to chew so I went out and bought a really good blender to totally mix everything. I'm hoping that now he'll eat what I've mixed. We are running out of ideas and I am worried we won't find anything. My sympathies to everyone else here who is struggling to keep their babies well, it is so hard. We fight so much and sometimes the most difficult part is knowing when to stop. At least for now, I can look into Benji's sweet face and know that there is still hope. One thing that I know from experience, however, is that when you have considered euthanasia more than once for an animal the time is probably very near anyway. I truly admire everyone's strength and devotion in the face of these crises. Best Wishes everyone, Christine and Benji, Missy, Fiona, Jezebel, and Wuzzitt *Rikki* in spirit 2. Subject: For Christine -- feeding chicken gravy/duck soup From: "norma and jerry wooten" Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 00:44:06 -0500 > He is not interested at all in his regular dry food and we made him > a whole > recipe of Bob's chicken gravy but would you believe he won't touch > it... Dr. Karen suggested heating the offering -- I have had very good experience with this "trick"; oftentimes my babies will accept duck soup/gravy if heated, whereas they may otherwise turn their noses up... In addition to offering it by syringe or spoon -- you might also try dipping your fingers into the soup and letting them lick it directly from your fingers. A little messy, I admit, but some ferrets seem to really prefer this. I have had sick ferrets who will take "soup" only in this manner; some will then "transition" to taking it directly from the bowl, others persist in their insistence upon being "hand-fed". Depends upon the ferret, but whatever floats their boat, is fine by me. Good luck, Christine. Norma Wooten jericho@kctera.net20 3. Subject: Adrenal Success Rate From: Rachel Gay Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 02:14:56 -0400 Hi All! I just subscribed recently due to a critical situation with a ferret that had undergone adrenal surgery, unfortunately the Barnaby passed away before any advice could be gleaned. I am posting now for some hindsight information. In the past two years I have had two ferrets undergo adrenal surgery. Brandy had her surgery in July 97 and Barnaby had his in June of this year. Brandy was diagnosed through the UT panel (showed borderline results, but went ahead with surgery because of a swollen vulva that did not respond to any other treatement), Barnaby was diagnosed because of all the typical symptoms (hair loss, sexual behavior, increased odor, etc.). Both ferrets were operated on on a Wednesday, the anesthetic used was isofluorane, the left adrenal was removed because of obvious malformation, came home the evening of the surgery, did not perk up overnight, refused food, and died the Sunday following the surgery to suspected kidney failure, confirmed with blood work. I know that this is unusual, but what is going on? With five other ferrets, the likelihood of adrenal problems cropping up again seems to be imminant. There are a few differences between the two situations, Brandy's tumor was malignant while Barnaby's was not. Brandy seemed closer to OK in the couple of days after surgery while Barnaby was taken back to the vet the day after surgery comotose and unresponsive to a vast number of intervention techniques (for more info contact me). Brandy's only symptom was the swollen vulva while Barnaby had the whole range of symptoms. Brandy took the final turn quickly and passed away of her own accord while Barnaby held on in a miserable state until we made the decision for him to spare him any further pain. Did I mention that the two surgery's were performed by different vets? Both said the surgery went very well and both ferrets came around quickly and were given great prognoses. Anyone who has had similar experiences or insights, your advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated. Rachel P.S. Surgery is still the recommended course of action and in no way should my results sway you from this treatment option. If I had another ferret showing symptoms right now, I would schedule the surgery, cry my eyes out, cross my fingers, and hope for the best. ---------------------------------------------------- Reach me by ICQ. My ICQ# is 34406242 or, * Page me online through my Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/34406242 (go there and try it!) or, * Send me E-mail Express directly to my computer screen 34406242@pager.mirabilis.com For downloading ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ For adding similar signatures to your e-mail go to: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html 4. Subject: Re:blocked ferret, chemo, itchy ferrets, shedding, Wally From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:48:53 +0000 Christine, > Then went in for surgery after seeing a > mass. Luckily she didn't have to cut him, and cleared it out. > Anyway I want to know if this blockage could have been a result of > his adrenal gland tumor. Dr. Feeser told me it was due to his diet, > and that some cat foods tend to have too many minerals, which built > up in his urinary tract. Is this true? No - ferrets with adrenal disease get an enlarged prostate, which causes blockages. I highly recommend the info on Ferret Central and Mike Janke's adrenal/insulinoma website to give to any vet you end up with. > I am trying to switch him to > Marshall's Ferret Food (suggested by Dr. Feeser) but he hates it!! I actually don't recommend this food - can you get Totally Ferret? > Also, should I wait to have the surgery done after this tramatic > episode last week? I don't want to put Nortie through too much. I would do the surgery ASAP, after a ferret knowledgeable vet does an ultrasound of his heart to check for any abnormalities. Blockages can occur at any time if you don't remove the adrenal. Dear Tracy, >SNIP> > Spoekie seems > pretty well just now, playing and generally happy (only 4.5yrs old)- > is it a good idea to try the chemo again? Chemo doesn't seem to work well the second time around - I tend to maintain them on pred, vitamin C and Pau d'arco if they recur. Dear Amy, > We are stilll al ittle concerned with the fact that he is itchy, but > here is where I need your help. Connor has been itchy all of his > life. My two girls are itchy too. Yup, ferrets are itchier than other pets. Very normal, as long as there are no skin lesions. I do'nt bathe them that much > (maybe every 2 weeks). Actually, I would consider that too often - I recommend bathing every 4-6 weeks as needed. It's so good to hear all the great news about lupron! Steve and Becky, > SNIP> > > My question is: Can this simply be an off-season shedding. > Yes - I've seen several cases of delayed shedding after a serious illness in ferrets and other mammals. I would certainly suspect adrenal disease if the hair doesn't grow back. Lynn, > SNIP> > So. we're thinking about surgery. I'd love to hear if others have > gotten surgery at this point and, if so, what the results were. Or, > just what people think about Wally's chances. The main thing would > be to see the pancreas and, at this point, probably take part of it > (it's most likely spread all about), and then maybe do something > about the adrenal tumor if possible. I worry, though, about his > weight, time he's been on pred, amount of pred he's gotten and gets, > the low blood sugar in regards to surgery, reactive diabetes. those > things. I'd also be interested in hearing what pre-surgical tests > people might recommend, if surgery is to be considered. Have you been checking the blood glucose regularly? Has it stayed above 60 mg/dl? I find that surgery after pred doesn't actually do very much, unfortunately. Also, if the adrenal tumor bled a great deal from the biopsy, please realize that it could cause severe hemorrhage if removed. I've yet to have one like this, but Dr Susan Brown warned me of them when I was working on the book. I can tell you honestly, Lynn, if this was my case - I wouldn't cut him. As long as he is happy, I feel it would be too risky. Hope this helps, -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com 5. Subject: Tabitha From: Clare Sebok Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 11:49:09 -0400 (EDT) Jennifer, You might want to try Lupron for Tabitha since she has already gone through surgery so many times. We have two ferrets, Bridgett and Buttercup, who have had adrenal surgery twice. After her second adrenal surgery, Buttercup had some hair regrowth, but not as much as we hoped for. She then had a Lupron shot and started to grow a lot of new hair a few weeks later. Now her coat looks beautiful and she is energetic and playful. It's a year since Bridgett's surgery, and since her coat is getting thinner, we plan to get a Lupron shot for her too. With a ferret who is getting older and has already had more than one surgery, Lupron is a good option to look into. Information about doses was recently posted on the FAIML. Good luck, Clare 6. Subject: Re: urinary block et al From: "Mary L. McCarty" Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:01:22 -0700 Christine, >I want to know if this blockage could have been a result of his >adrenal gland tumor. Dr. Feeser told me it was due to his diet, and >that some cat foods tend to have too many minerals, which built up in >his urinary tract. Is this true? I am trying to switch him to Urinary blockages can be caused by diet, but since your ferret *does* have an adrenal gland problem, it most likely could be a result of that (in males, the excessive hormones can cause the prostate to swell so that they block). If the ferret is in good health otherwise, I would do surgery. If not, then I suggest trying Lupron therapy (I'm sure Lynn can send you the file on Lupron and other drugs). >Marshall's Ferret Food (suggested by Dr. Feeser) but he hates it!! My >other two ferries won't eat it either (Ralph and Piedmont). Any Marshall's is not that bad of a food, but I prefer to feed Totally Ferret, Eukanuba Kitten Chicken & Rice Formula, 8-in-1 Ultimate diet (their newest food) and Iams Kitten. In my opinion, they are better foods. What are you currently feeding your ferrets? Anything high in corn can also cause urinary problems. >blockage, Dr. Taylor mentioned something wrong with his heart, >couldn't this be his adrenal gland (it's his right that has the >tumor). I'm afraid to have Dr. Taylor do the surgery, I have heard >of a guy in Durham who does alot of ferrets, Dr. Hudson. Anyone >heard of Make sure you take the xrays with you to see Dr. Hudson. I have never met the man, but he has been highly recommended many times (especially with right gland surgeries, which are more difficult). If there is a problem with the heart, surgery may not be a good idea. >him? Also, should I wait to have the surgery done after this >tramatic episode last week? I don't want to put Nortie through too >much. I would contact Dr. Hudson soon and see what he thinks about the possible heart problem and if surgery is the right way to go. If last week didn't do too much damage, I wouldn't wait. Good luck! Steve & Becky, >My question is: Can this simply be an off-season shedding. I know >that adrenal ferrets can lose hair all over, but thought that usually >it started in the tail (he lost the rump hair already) and shoulder >area. Any comments or advice would be appreciated. Shedding, while normally happening in the spring, can happen anytime. However, it sounds like he truly is adrenal (adrenal hairloss is normally at the base of the tail, but can be all over). If he is a good surgical candidate, I would do it soon. Celeste, >herbs. It said that Barberry strengthens and cleanses the system and >"...an interesting action is its ability to reduce an enlarged >spleen." I started adding this in tincture form to the mush I have a rescue that just came in with a huge spleen. My vet hasn't suggested surgery or anything as of yet since it really doesn't seem to be causing him any discomfort or harm. Is there a certain type of Barberry (brand, etc.) that I should get? Any information on this would be great. Thank you! Lynn, >I would REALLY like opinions about getting surgery for our Marshall >Farm's fur boy Wally, who is six years old. He had exploratory If your vet thinks Wally is able to handle it, surgery doesn't seem out of the realm of possibilities considering he is only 6 yo (even though he has so much wrong with him). It's my understanding that when you get to using Proglycem to treat insulinoma, there doesn't seem to be much time left (please correct me if I'm wrong!) so surgery may help to prolong his life in that respect. My vet always runs what she calls a presurgery option #1 which includes the CBC, BG, all kinds of liver & kidney tests (I'm sure Dr. Karen would know what else would be good to run in this case). This gives her a better idea of what she's going to face if she goes in. Surgery is always a risk, as we all know. However, I've seen the worst off little 5.5 yo guy come through with flying colors. Bandit (who is being fostered by his wonderful mommy, Ann B., in NJ) had everything wrong - adrenal, insulinoma, heliobactor, huge spleen, didn't want to eat, etc. We finally got him back on his kibble and in *fighting form* if you can call it that. While surgery was tough, he had an incredible will to live and made it through much better than I did . Surgery was in January and he is still going strong. Yeah, he has his bad days, but he has more good days then before. I almost choked on the bill (even with our shelter discount), but I truly believe it was worth it. I know he would be dead by now if we hadn't done it. I'm sure you'll make the right decision for Wally and for you. Hang in there! Mary and the gang of 19..... Mary McCarty-Houser Pennsylvania Ferret Rescue Association Director, Centre County Branch http://www.ferretrescue.com ------------------- End of FAIML #319 --------------------