From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 7:03 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #320; August 3, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #320; August 3, 1999 1. Jasmine... 2. Need opinions and help/Squirt update 3. Feeding an insulinoma ferret 4. body odor 5. feeding chicken gravy/duck soup 6. Adrenalectomy: Third time's a charm! TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: Jasmine... From: LDarkes@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:46:09 EDT I hope someone can give me some ideas -- I'm feeling so discouraged right now, particularly after reading how quickly everyone's ferrets seem to be responding to lupron. Not that I'm not happy for you and your ferrets, that's not how I meant that. Its just that Jasmine had her injection of the 4 month depot of Lupron almost two weeks ago and her vulva swelling has not gone down at all. We started treating her with the 30 day lupron back in Feb/March or so and it seemed like she responded within a week with noticible vulva shrinking. We gave her a second injection at about 4 weeks, and her fur started growing back. The last two injections with that lupron didn't bring the vulva swelling back down. I figured since we had just stored it in a regular freezer, perhaps it had expired and lost effectiveness, so we ordered the 4 month dose through the pharmacy that Dr. Weiss mentioned in his paper. I was so sure this was the answer for Jasmine, and nothing. It seems like every time I get my hopes up that something will finally help her, its just the same disappointing results. This has been going on for over a year and a half. I'm drained. I don't know what to do anymore. --- Lucie 2. Subject: Need opinions and help/Squirt update Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:57:59 -0500 From: Mohr Again, questions first. Squirt no longer has the left adrenal, and the vet wants to go back in and "debulk" the right adrenal, which they say will last about six months, then the thing will grow back. *sigh* The other options are lysodren, which I'm not wild about, or vena cava ligation. My vet has never done one, and I understand that they're a bit dangerous. Also, isn't the vena cava a major source of blood flow to the hind legs? I need any and all opinions, information, etc., on this option. How risky is it? Would you recommend it? Who has done it? Troy Lynn Eckart has said that her vet in Kansas has done some of these. Does anyone know of anyone closer to Lincoln, Nebraska? I am really not sure what to do or if something this dangerous, etc., is worth it. Squirt is five, so I'd really like to see her having a few more good years. Help! Now, to the update : Thanks so much to everyone for the recipes, etc. I'm happy to report that Squirt has not *lost* any weight. I weighed her last night, and she is maintaining now, so is currently at 1 lb 4 oz. She is responding to the Lupron! I am very excited to see her swelling *finally* starting to go down, her infection clearing up, her appetite perking up, and her energy level going up! I will post the photos, albeit rather "personal" , on my website in another week or two so folks can see her progress. I have been hand-feeding her woozle goo (to which I added some acidophilus thanks to the Baytril she's been on), and she has been eating a good deal on her own now. I'm anxious to see her weight go back up some. :) Thanks again to everyone. :) -Tasha 3. Subject: Feeding an insulinoma ferret From: "Kojima Keiko" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:01:30 -0400 Can somebody give me tips on how to wean an insulinomic ferret from her soup? Franny used to love crunchy dry food but is now completely spoiled. When handfed, she tries one piece of kibble and just stops eating. Until I give her soup, she does not eat anything. As her glucose level is as low as 49 (she has been on Pred), I am reluctant to wait longer than 4 hours. My human baby now lets me sleep thru the night, but I must wake up at least once at night to feed Franny. I tried soggy kibbles (rather than soupy), but she didn't take it. I appreciate help from other ferret owners. Keiko Hosokawa 4. Subject: body odor From: batzwing@webtv.net (june batz) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 05:17:25 -0700 (PDT) My little insulinomic Phoebe..is on 3/4 of a 5 mg tablet (bid) could the pred cause an odor..I am trying to place the smell, it is not quite an uremic smell as it is a sulfurish..strong odor..cant place it..I have only bathed her once..to old and fragile to handle the stress..or maybe I am..but the bathing did NOTHING to eliminate the smell...Any Ideas? Thanks June 5. Subject: feeding chicken gravy/duck soup From: "Eden Rain" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:44:59 -0700 Norma wooten suggests heating the chicken gravy to make it more appealing, & that's agreat idea. If they fundamentally won't take it though here's an alternative that's kept my woozles going when nothing else would: grind up their regular kibble, put a little water on it & heat that up as "Ferret Soup" (sometimes we squirt a little ferretone on it or add a vitamin supplement that they like) because it smells like their regular kibble they're more likely to accept this if they're feeling sick & finicky than something new. Good luck, Eden ______________________________________________ Eden Rain raghead@liripipe.com 6. Subject: Adrenalectomy: Third time's a charm! From: Renee Downs Slette Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 11:13:24 -0400 RE: Adrenalectomy: Third time's a charm! Although I joined this list for information about my 4 year old bilateral adrenalectomy ferret, I do believe I can make a contribution of some relevance here. Dr. Dan Hudson, of Northwoods Animal Hospital in Cary, is my veterinarian, and has been for more than a year. We began using him, although he is 2 hours from my home in Greenville (NC), because my two ferrets were experiencing ECE-like symptoms and had lost so much weight. Incredibly intensive nursing and round-the-clock monitoring and feeding were probably the primary factors in their recovery, but the male was showing adrenal symptoms as well. When I acquired him, Smokey was a kit. He displayed very aggressive behavior, had a very strong odor and lost some hair between the shoulderblades at about 1 year of age. This all subsided, but the hair loss pattern seemed to return every spring. Dr. Hudson worked to rule out every problem that might cause this (we had several by the time we saw him last year), then recommended surgery. In Dec., 1998, Smokey had his first adrenalectomy (left side, benign). There was no hair regrowth and he seemed more aggressive. So, in early May, we had the second (right side, carcinoma). No hair growth and no change in behavior. (Now I'm almost ready to pull out MY hair!) We are now wondering, too, if there was any testicular tissue left. This proved negative. We did a urinalysis and found blood in the urine. So, another visit to Dr. Hudson, who said, "If I was seeing Smokey for the first time, I would say you have an adrenal ferret. But I KNOW I took out both of them. I think we need to look again and see if I missed something." So, we discussed the options and risks and scheduled him for Thursday. To make a long story shorter, he found some adrenal tissue embedded in the fat that had surrounded the left adrenal gland. It had apparently been pushed behind the left kidney. Although Dr. Hudson does not believe this will be a metastasis, but an oversight, we will know for sure when the pathology report comes back. So, Dr. Hudson is experienced, thorough and good. He is not afraid to admit he might have missed something and he cares for his bilateral ferrets very closely. He has never lost a ferret yet, and has done more right-sided tumors than anyone else in the area. I trust him completely. Dr. Feeser is my Greenville veterinarian. We are able to get our electrolytes done there, too. She does all my care except for the surgeries (I just discovered her recently.) She has more ferret experience than any of the other vets around here and will work with Dr. Hudson over the phone to coordinate care. I feel confident that Smokey is getting the best care possible with them. For what it's worth, on Thursdays Dr. Hudson does his surgeries. If your vet wants to observe, or learn a ferret procedure, he is very open to having them there. I would suggest you have your vet call him (919-481-2987) to see when he has ferrets on the book. Please accept my apologies for such a long post. I hope you found something useful here. Renee Downs & the thrice-adrenalectomized Smokey ------------------ End of FAIML #320 ---------------------------