From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 7:14 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #324; August 17, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #324; August 17, 1999 1. Squirt, worried 2. Nancy's big belly 3. responding and questions 4. Ditto 5. Re: stuff 6. Weaning insulinomic ferret 7. Lucky Charm's surgery 8. Norton/ Reply to Tracy & Dook/Recipe 9. FAIML #319; August 1, 1999 10. FAIML #321; August 8, 1999 TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET

in the body of the email. 1. Subject: Squirt, worried From: Mohr Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:34:02 -0500 Hi, all. Thanks so much for everyone's help, and just plain for having this list. It's been a great source of help, info, and support. Squirt has just today had surgery to remove her right adrenal, and the vet, Dr. Curry of Omaha, said all went well. She saw no pancreatic tumors and nothing else unusual. However, we noticed last night a lump on her neck, which Dr. C removed and will send off to pathology along with the adrenal gland. *Now* I'm worried. The lump was on the upper part of her neck, kind of behind her right ear but a bit further down. It wasn't a mast cell tumor, either. I know what this could be, and I don't even want to think about it. :(:( -Tasha 2. Subject: Nancy's big belly From: Debbie Magerr Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:57:14 -0700 My adrenal girl had surgery in Dec 98 to remove right side. Her vulva swelling has not completely gone down. I have a vet appt this Sat. that I made a month ago when I started to notice her belly getting very big. She is not on any meds right now. she eats & poops fine. Any ideas why her belly is so big?? Would the other adrenal show like this, or is the spleen probably affected? This was the soonest appt I could get with this vet (ferret specialist) I hope the waiting hasn't made things worse. Debbie (Sid & Nancy) 3. Subject: responding and questions From: Saunders59@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:24:53 EDT Hi everyone, My name is Kim and I have a ferret named Critter. I wanted to respond to Meagan's question about the tumors showing up on the x-rays. Some tumors will show up depending on the size and location. All x-rays should be sent out to a board certified radiologist who should read them and then send a report back to your veterinarian. Radiologist can sometimes pick up things that your vet may not be able to see on the films. Doing an ultrasound may be another approach. I also wanted to tell Norton's owner not to feel so bad. I have worked for a veterinarian for four years so I see a different approach in caring for animals. You cannot blame yourself in the least. You were doing the right thing by trying to help Norton feel better. Sometimes animals do not make it post surgery. There is really not an explanation to why this happens. You did nothing wrong, trust me. Norton knew you were trying to help him not trying to hurt him. He was obviously a very well loved ferret. One doesn't know if surgery will work or what. Maybe try Lupron on your other fuzzies if the adrenal gland problem may arrive. Do not blame yourself, you were only trying to do the right thing. Take care of yourself. Now I have a question to ask you all. Critter will be 5 years old next month. He received his second Lupron shot on the 6th of this month. Since then he does not use his litter box regulary. He will use it one time and that is it. I clean out his entire box, litter and all, once a day. I have not changed anthing on him, not his litter, detergent anything. Has anybody elses ferret done the same thing? Please let me know. I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you for your help. Take care everybody. Kim and Critter 4. Subject: Ditto From: Linda.Doran@att.net Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:16:09 +0000 Congratulations to Dr. Karen on your new book. You helped Meagan Quinn, and Meagan Quinn helped me. See, that's how that works. Regarding X-rays: Lymphoma tumors that are large enough can show up on an X-ray (as they did recently in Esperanza's case), but it takes a vet with some experience looking for them in ferrets to recognize them. By then, they can also be palpated, although surgery may be necessary to make certain the object that shows up in the X-ray isn't something else. One always hopes that the object might be something the ferret swallowed that can easily be removed; but in my experience, if the ferret is older than one, that isn't very likely. 5. Subject: Re: stuff From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:58:51 +0000 Hi Lynne, > > What is Florinef? Florinef is given after bilateral adrenal surgery to replace the mineralicorticoids that are usually deficient. It is not necessary unless both adrenals are completely removed. Christine, Please accept my sympathy at the loss of Norton. Meagan, > I want to say Congrats to Dr. Karen. I've been eagerly awaiting > your book since i heard that you were writing it AND that you > weren't "just any ol' vet". You have helped me so many times through > this list and supporting you and your book isn't even close to > enough thanks! congrats! congrats! congrats! > Many thanks! > Also: i went ot Dr. doolen with keera. He says she appears > healthy--spleen feels fine, nothing palpatable. But her lymphs are > slightly enlarged in her next. B/c she is a larger ferret, he > doesn't know if this is b/c of fat or lymphoma. BUT she is on > pediapred 0.5ml/day adn the pred. kills stuff that might make a > biopsy false-neg--anyone have any ideas on this? > It is usually fat, but the pred can suppress lymphoma, so you are kind of between a rock and a hard place. Is the CBC normal? > Will tumors show up on an xray? > Nico's did--but someone siad they won't. What will the xray show me? > Most of the time tumors do not show up on xray - ultrasound in much more sensitive. -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com 6. Subject: Weaning insulinomic ferret From: "Kojima Keiko" Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 11:20:21 -0400 Thank you for responding to my post regarding weaning insulinomic ferret. Franny is 7 years old and her low glucose level was detected at check up last year. So far she has not shown any of the typical hypoglycemic symptons. I didn't put her on the soup because she couldn't eat dry food. I had to remove dry food temporarily because ants were swarming over the food dish. At the same time, I started to mix Pred in the soup. Eventually I weaned all other ferrets (healthy) off the soup, exept Franny. Her teeth are all fine. I cannot think of any other health reason that unables Franny to eat dry food, so I will try the tips I received from kind people. If they do not work or she has health reasons to avoid dry food, I'll be all hers. Thank you for your renponses. Keiko site: http://www.miamiferret.org/FHC 7. Subject: Lucky Charm's surgery From: "Michael F. Janke" Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:35:29 -0400 >While I was in the waiting room of the hospital >awaiting the outcome of Lucky Charm's surgery, Dr. >Wimsatt informed me of this. He said that with my >permission, the veterinary cardiologist conducting the >surgery was prepared to use a procedure developed >recently in Florida, in which the surgeon cuts into the >vena cava, removes the adrenal tissue, and stitches the >artery back together. I had not heard of anyone doing this before, so I spoke to Dr. Kemerrer, thinking she might be the "Florida" source for this procedure. While she didn't directly admit to being the source, she said she has done this procedure before. Apparently, it requires a bit of skill, lots of time and microsurgical equipment. It doesn't sound like something the average vet is going to be able to do, so it looks like you found a good one for Lucky Charm. His name is very fitting! Dr. K also mentioned that virtually all right adrenals invade the Vena Cava. She says that while she has become proficient at dissecting and teasing the gland's capsule off the vena cava, there are instances where damage to the vena cava is unavoidable and the more drastic procedure is needed. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web Subject: Syringing Meds From: Richard and Katharine Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:15:20 -0400 I've found the easiest thing to do is mix the meds with a little Duck Soup or NutriCal (dissolved in water) heated in the microwave. It even works for pills if you grind them up. I give Lily her Lysodren (capsule, which I cut open) mixed with Duck Soup. Katharine 8. Subject: Norton/ Reply to Tracy & Dook/Recipe From: Celeste Jacob Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:55:21 -0700 Christine: I am so sorry to hear about Norton. I, too, am crying for you and saying a prayer for you both. I know if he were here now, he wouldn't want you to cry and blame yourself. You did the best you could, you had no way of knowing that there would be post-op complications. That's one thing that no one can ever tell, I guess that's why they always say surgery is a risk. Its so hard to always know what the right thing to do is, and we use a combination of trust in our vet, our own best judgement, and instincts, and just hope for the best. Sometimes fate takes over, regardless of any of these. Anyway, I just want you to know that I am thinking about you and picturing Norton at the Bridge, dancing and dooking it up with his pals and munching down at the raisin bar. ("Norton, if you see my PJ there, tell her Mommy loves and misses her very much!") Please write any time you like, it really will help some eventually. Right now, just take all the time for yourself that you need to cope with the grief and try to focus on all the good memories. To Tracy: >Dook has some heavy problems. The vet found that his right kidney is 3x the size of his left. Chances are it's adrenal or a urinary backup. There's something wrong with his spleen, too. He is slighlty anemic. I need to build him up for surgery. This is driving me crazy with worry. I've tried whipping cream, heavy cream, all types of food concotions, duck soup, all without success, and now Im back to syringe feeding the baby. >I heard that there may be some herbs that could help. If anyone knows of the type and how to make a mixture, please e-mail me and let me know. I have about a week before he goes back to the vet for another blood test and weigh-in. I'm worried that he woln't be able to have the surgery he needs because I can't get him to put on weight. My recipe below starts with baby food. Have you tried that yet? I consulted my herb book and it says for "kidney and urinary diuretic" - Uva Urse, Parsley, Dandelion, Sassafras, Juniper Berries, and Chamomile. "A wonderful formula that has a valuable therapeutic effect on the kidney, bladder area and is a great healer. A diuretic to increase flow of urine and an aid in cleansing waste from blood stream. If severe inflammation of kidney, bladder, urethra, or blood is present, it may be necessary to increase dosage until infection subsides." You should be able to get these in tincture or capsule form at your health food store. It can be expensive, but I've done it gradually - 3-4 ingredients at a time - and would suggest you get the ones that he needs most first, like the ones above to tackle his more urgent problems. The Barberry worked so well to shrink Dusty's spleen, we are still amazed . . . and its been almost 2 months! :D I thought it would be a good idea to share my recipe with you and everyone on the list. It is a modified version of Gary Holowicki's Timmy's Recipe. I've added herbs gradually, and according to what Dusty needs at the time. Here it is: In 2 small jars of Gerber Turkey & Sweet Potatoes (or Beechnut Sweet Potatoes & Chicken): MISC.: 1/2 tsp. Timmy's Tonic (from Gary Holowicki, email: garyh@indirect.com) 1/2 tsp. Black Cherry Concentrate (health food store "HFS") 3-4 tbsp. brewer's yeast (bulk section in HFS) 3-4 tbsp. Rene Cassie's Essiac Formula (Wow-Bow Distributors 1 800 326-0230) TINCTURE form: 2 tinctures full Cat's Claw 2 tinctures full Milk Thistle 2 tinctures full Golden Echinecea 2-3 tinctures full Barberry (primarily for Dusty, but likely good for Ferris, too) 4-5 drops Colloidal Silver (My brand is strong - 500 ppm. Use more if yours is a weaker strength.) CAPSULE form: (1/2 capsul of each per batch) Chromium (chelated, NOT picolinate!) (pronounced KEY-LAYTED) Dandelion Root Red Clover Combination (can also be obtained in liquid form from Gary H.) Shiitake Mushroom Astraglus Schizandra Pau d' Arco CoQ10 L-Tyrosine Super Blue Green Algae Digestive Enzyme (My brand is Maxi-Zyme, but there are many others to choose from.) *Garlic is another cancer-fighting ingredient that you may want to add, as is Ginseng. Can you believe I prepare all this twice a week?!?! It seems like alot, but it only takes me about 5-10 minutes. I give them each about 2-3 tbsp. of the mush, twice a day, heated in the microwave for 9 seconds. I put Dusty's does of Pred right in it and he doesn't even notice, I think I could hide just about anything in there - obviously! :) This mix should keep in the frig for about 4-5 days, maybe even 6. You can't overdose him on it, so you can feed liberally. However, keep in mind that you want him to continue to eat his dry food, as it has a higher content of fat & protien, etc., so you don't want to get him too full on the mush. Best of luck and love to all! Celeste, Dusty & Ferris 9. Subject: FAIML #319; August 1, 1999 From: "barbara m. bolas" Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:53:36 -0400 Dear Christine, You wrote about Benji: >and baby food can provide. We're guessing he just doesn't like >anything lumpy in his food that he has to chew so I went out and bought a really good blender to totally mix everything. I'm hoping that now he'll eat what I've mixed. < My fert, Bodhi (4.5 year old) is insulinomic. He was operated almost one year ago (8/21). He's been a picky eater since he caught the flu when he was 9 months old. I feed him 3 times each day: 4 tsps of Totally Ferret food which I grind to powder in my (now Bodhi's) coffee grinder - it's much easier than a blender and lends itself better to the smaller quantities. I add the powder to a bowl of water (1/4 cup +), along with a tsp of Brewer's Yeast (which comes in powder form) so that its the consistency of heavy cream. He never eats all of it, but I leave it out for him - just in case. Here's my secret ingredient: I float about 10 drops of Linatone on the surface of the "TF soup." I have little squeeze bottles (from my contact lenses) of linatone around the house - It's become his favorite treat, since raisins are strictly off limits. (Bodhi likes the taste of Linatone much better than Ferratone). He likes Gerber's baby food chicken & gravy, but it seems to give him diarrhea so he only gets it occasionally. But what he likes most of all is my being there and talking to him all the while he's eating: "Oh, boy! Hungry Boy! Mmmmm that's so good! Hurry up, hungry boy, Get the treat." When he hears the phrase, "Are you hungry," during the day (when he's away from his food bowl - he has free run of the house and lives under my bed. ), he licks his chops but rarely goes to his dish in the bathroom on his own. So I carry him there, give him a drop of linatone, and sometimes, have to hold him facing the bowl until he digs in. My "Hungry Boy" chant is somewhat embarrassing if anyone else happens to be around - but I'm totally trained to continue my cheerleading while he eats. Hey, it works - that's what matters! I hope it will help Benji to eat with some gusto as well. I'm rooting for you. Dooks, Barbara and the Bodacious One ("mom, are you eating a raisin, or could that be ice cream I smell? Ok, Ok - how about some peanut butter at least?") barbarabolas@compuserve.com 10. Subject: FAIML #321; August 8, 1999 From: "barbara m. bolas" Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:53:34 -0400 Message text written by INTERNET:faiml@sttl.uswest.net >6. Subject: any tips on syringe meds? From: Apollo174@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:21:24 EDT >>any gimmicks syringing liquid meds to their ferrets. It is a >>constant struggle in my house and I really can't find enough scruff on my ferret (Trekkie) to scruff her comfortably. Plus, I hate doing it. So, if anyone has any tips or ideas about how to get her to take medication more painlessly, please let me know. Right now, my biggest problem is with the proglycem which she frequently spits up and gags at the very sight of the syringe. < Hi, Bodhi gets proglycem twice daily to help regulate his insulin levels. He hated the taste also and it would break my heart to have to scruff him several times each day. I put the drops into a flat plate and then put linatone over it, stir it up and it treat time rather than torture time for both of us. No fuss, no muss, no problem. For those of you administering pills: He also get prednisone - a 1/2 tablet which I place into a flat plate with 2 drops of water while I'm preparing his Totally Ferret soup. When the pill has dissolved, I add some linatone to that and stir ir up. When I present the plate I say, "Get your medicine!" and tap the side of the plate so it rings out. Now, all I have to do is tap a plate to get his attention. Perhaps some will say I give him too much linatone - but, what the hell, he has a terminal illness. I don't want to wrestle him to the ground each time I have to give him his Rxs. I try to make his life as stress-free as possible, with as much pleasure and quality as possible, for as long as possible. He can't climb or run anymore, his back legs are going. He gets tired very easily, but still loves to snuggle and give/get kisses. He eats heartily and loves his treats. his seems more important to me. Good luck with your little one - I hope it works for you! Ferrets are Us, Barbara and The Bodacious One barbarabolas@compuserve.com ----------------- End of FAIML #324 ----------------------