From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 5:50 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #327; Sept. 2, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #327; Sept. 2, 1999 1. RE: FAIML #322; August 11, 1999 POST URGENT 2. SURGERY AGAIN!!!??? 3. Jasmine's bad week. 4. Squirt Update is Good News :):) 5. Tonic Update 6. neglected ferret 7. Moxy and Lupron 8. Re: Stinki and Lupron 9. To Wendi, and a quick update 10. Hair regrowth and stress 11. Reply: Herbs for Connor The Ferret Adrenal Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their urgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret-experienced vet you can find! A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: RE: FAIML #322; August 11, 1999 POST URGENT From: "Griffis, Deanna" Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:31:31 -0400 Hi! My name is Deanna and I have four fur kids. My question is for a friend who adopted a ferret and is realizing that he is hypoglycemic. He has taken him to the vet a couple of times because he became very weak, comatose, and would not eat. The vet has told him that he should not consider surgery because he would have less than a 50/50 chance of survival. Is the reason he is hypoglycemic probably due to an insulinoma? He is in desperate need of a diet or another treatment. He is currently on prednisone and was directed to try karo syrup when his baby gets weak. Please respond quickly. Thank you for any info. 2. Subject: SURGERY AGAIN!!!??? From: "mcrg" Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:24:04 -0500 I never know if i send these messages correctly or not, but here goes.This past May I definitely had an adrenal kid named Conus who had surgery, got hair within 2 days and had his entire coat back as well as reintegrated with his bros within a weeks time. He had the " TYPICAL " balding pattern, although I am starting to wonder if there is any " TYPICAL " pattern. I know the answer to this question even before i ask it but i need reassurances too! One of his bros is a fuzzy named Brutus, who now is bald only in the middle of his back. Unlike Conus who became a terror, Brutus is so lethargic!!! We had his sugar tested and it was 113 so he is ok there. His only other symptom is the itchy dance!? In my heart I know surgery is probably imminent but...... What a horrendous illness to befall such wonderful creatures. Thanks for the air time Robbin and The Hood ps: if anyone recalls I was a nervous wreck when Conus had surgery so I am sure not much else will change this time. All that goes thru my mind at the moment is that song Two out of Three Aint bad. I am almost petrified of my third fuzzy ever getting sick. His name is Minnion AKA The Old Man ( he is almost 7 and still spunky! ) Again thanx 3. Subject: Jasmine's bad week. From: Kathouze@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:06:10 EDT Jasmine had an anaphylactic reaction to fervacd last Thursday, and barely made it through with her life. It's so hard watching them go comatose so quickly. We got through that and she's starting to eat as usual and she gets diahrrea,the liquid. kind. I started giving her kaopectate and pedialyte,but had to take her to the vet this morning. Of course, her regular vet was out and so was my backup, but I found someone on the other side of town. Turns out he went to vet school with my brother. Now she's taking amoxicillan and Flagyl,plus lots of fluid and duck soup. Oh yes and the fun pink medicine they love so much,pepto bismol.Am I forgetting anything? Let me know if you can suggest anything else, or something to soothe a pissed ferret. Poor girl has just had a hard week.Oh,she's 5 and had a left adrenalectomy.Keep her in your thoughts. Sandy and Fuzzbutts 4. Subject: Squirt Update is Good News :):) From: Mohr Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 01:02:09 -0500 Hi, all. Just an update: my little Squirt is doing really well. Last I'd posted she had just had surgery and had that lump removed from her neck. I am VERY happy and relieved to report that the lump was "only" a cyst, and in the skin, not in the muscle or lymph nodes. I was already excited, because the Lupron was working. Not only had Squirt's vulva gone down considerably, but her bald spots (mainly her tummy from her previous surgery) were turning BLUE!! I probably wardanced myself when I saw it. She is now two weeks post-op and positively hairy! Her vulva is almost normal size now, as well. We expect (hope!) that it will go down completely with a bit of time. We are keeping watch for the symptoms of Addison's disease. Right now she is on no meds, but we will of course start them if need be. As a last note, she is maintaining at 1 lb 6 oz. I wish she would gain a bit more, but I'll take what I can get. At least she is up 2 oz from her skinniest. -Tasha 5. Subject: Tonic Update From: Megan Dahlem Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:00:14 -0700 (PDT) Well, I got my furry girl into the vet on Monday.. Thanks all for the reccomendations, I called a ton of people and settled on Dr. Deeb in Shoreline. I got questioned as to where I learned about adrenal disease and what made me think my ferret had it.. I got Tonic out of the carrier and flipped her over.. 'Nuff said. :) A grand total of 5 minutes later we had discussed options (we're going for surgery), Tonic was told how utterly cute and wiggly she was and we were on our way. The office will call me and set up an ultrasound time.. And then the surgery will take place after that. Ton is still healthy and happy. No fur loss as of right now, just that swollen vulva. She's as active as she normally is and is still getting into tons of mischief. Since she's so young (3.5), I think she'll pull through the surgery just fine. I did want to ask you guys if any of you were enrolled in the Lupron study? My vet said that the ferret had to be a lefty to be enrolled.. But after we discussed the cost of the shot ($30 per month), I opted for surgery.... - Megan "Forget the dog, beware of the human" http://students.washington.edu/mdahlem/furo/ PS Kim - Thanks for the post! I've been warned about Dr. Nelson as well and have steered clear from him.. I've just heard too many questionable things! I decided to go with the ultrasound because this particular vet brings in a tech that's been doing this for a long time.. And they both are present during the procedure. From the looks of things, there's no need to do the bloodwork first so we're skipping straight to the ultrasound and then to surgery. 6. Subject: neglected ferret From: Moxie Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 08:33:59 -0400 Hi all, Perhaps the neglected ferret with fur loss is just suffering from poor nutrition and from being in dirty cage. Just another example of an irresponsible owner. I'm glad he has a good home now. See what the vet says and feed him a good ferret food, like Totally Ferret. A bit of ferretone is a good idea when used in moderation. Just a lick. My vet (and also FACT shelter vet), Dr. Barrios of East Hartford, CT, is trying Lupron for the first time after I sent him Dr. Weiss' protocol, so that is one result of having this list to pass info along to vets. Also, when writing to the list about an illness, please specify the ferret's age. Regards, Moxie -- * Page me online through my Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/949746 (go there and try it!) or, * Send me E-mail Express directly to my computer screen 949746@pager.mirabilis.com For downloading ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ For adding similar signatures to your e-mail go to: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html Moxie 7. Subject: Moxy and Lupron From: "Silver Eagle" Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:07:04 -0400 Hi ferret lovers Just wanted to drop a note to say that we took Moxy to see Dr. Taylor at the University of Guelph last Thurs. He thinks she's in pretty good shape for a girl her age. However he thinks he can actually feel the right adrenal gland! He gave her the first shot of Lupron and we go back in a month and if she reacts favourably to the first shot, he will give her the 3 month shot. The size of her vulva had already started to decrease before we got there. Probably due to the Timmy's Tonic, Essiac and Drenamin. Dr. Taylor asked us to discontinue the Drenamin, but we can continue with the Timmy's Tonic and the Essiac. Dr. Taylor took some blood for a CBC and he sent some to the States for the Tennessee Panel. We will discuss the blood results when we go back for the second shot on Sept.23. Moxy is the oldest ferret (7.5yrs.) that he has given Lupron to, but he feels confidant that we can give her a year or more of quality life. Please keep us in your fuzzy prayers. We always remember sick and mistreated ferrets, that they may recover or find loving homes. Sally St. Germain and her 10 "Little Saints." Hi.....my name is Sally.....I am a ferret-a-holic!!!!!. 8. Subject: Re: Stinki and Lupron From: WGHOL@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:36:19 EDT First I'd like to send out my sincerest Thanks for all the condolences I received for Stinki. I'm having a lot of trouble putting this behind me, but your kind and caring words have made me feel a lot less alone. What truly wonderful people you all are!! Stinki's PM came in today. The damaged part of her liver was tumorous, and it ruptured and bled internally. This explains the rapid onset of her symptoms, and also tells me I made the right decision in letting her go without any attempt to resusitate. There was nothing that could have been done for her. (which really doesn't make me feel any better...but...) On a positive note (I guess there is always something isn't there...) the right adrenal gland tumor had shrank in size noticeably , and her skin condition and muscle tone had improved greatly. This after three monthly injections of Lupron. This is great news for all the fuzzies out there who have inoperable adrenal disease, and are trying out the Lupron. Just an interesting side line, Seems like fate has stepped in and delivered me a bright and bubbly little fur-man. His name is BudWeasle (Buddy for short), and although I still miss my Stinkster, he is helping me re-coop and move along. Thank heaven for little ferts!! Again, thanks so much to everyone who wrote. You made the world of difference for me. :~) Wendi & Buddy & (my angel) Stinki ... 9. Subject: To Wendi, and a quick update From: Celeste Jacob Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:44:52 -0700 Wendi, I am so sorry to hear about Stinki. I am so sad for you and know how difficult it must be losing your precious baby. I cried as I read the news this morning, remembering that it was not long ago you wrote me with suggestions to help my own baby, Ferris. I wish I could help you now and take your pain away, I know this is very difficult time for you. Please write me anytime you want to talk, and know that I am keeping you and Stinki in my thoughts and prayers. Don't forget that she loves you very much and appreciates all the love and care you've given her over the years. (And I'm sure that if she weren't so busy munching down raisins at the raisin bar at the "Bridge" Club, she'd tell you so, herself!) :o> Don't forget to take care of yourself, too. To Lynn & All, Just wanted to let you all know that, unbelievably!, Dusty is still alive and kickin'!!! Ferris is doing great, too. I just got back from our week's vacation in Maui (Mom took good care of all the kids while we were gone) and all is well with the babies. Dusty doesn't look very good, he's lost so much fur, has wrinkly skin, has lost some weight, and is pretty wobbly after waking up. But overall, he's doing fine, considering how long he's been battling Insulinoma - a year and a half - and had 2 surgeries, the last of which was very hard on him. Then, back in June, he had that enlarged spleen and was basically given a death sentence until I used the Barberry herb and he bounced back from that. This little guy constantly amazes me with his will to live. In fact, sometimes I feel embarrassed about when wrote to you all after the ultrasound revealed the large spleen and was grieving then, thinking he had just a few weeks to live. I feel like the boy who cried wolf already! ha. So on he goes, I guess his job here - getting and giving lots of love - just isn't done yet. My love and prayers go out to all of you who have sick babies. And to my girlfriends that I personally write to, please don't give up on me, I'll be writing all of you soon. Just trying to catch up on everything here after vacation. Right now I'm having PVSS Post-Vacation Stress Syndrome :} Celeste, Dusty & Ferris 10. Subject: Hair regrowth and stress From: Jason Neuman Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:49:15 -0400 Hello everyone, ALL ABOUT HOBBES: I am new to the list and I am very impressed with the networking opportunities you have created. My fiancé and I have a 3 1/2 year old male sable "HOBBES" and he is our pride and joy. When we bought him (we were stupid and didn't have the info we should have when we got him) he was only 4 weeks old and already neutered. Our vet reported the pet store because of his age....he wasn't even weaned yet. We decided not to purchase his sister because the pet store told us that they didn't get along. They never played together and basically slept all day. Hobbes has never liked any other pet. We tried to get him a playmate about 3 weeks after we got him (his sister was bought right after he was), but that didn't work. Hobbes tried to kill "Calvin" and no he wasn't just showing his dominance. The poor thing was terrified so we took him back (this pet store was reputable and we knew the owner). At my mom's house Hobbes dominates her 3 cats and 2 dogs (one of which is the size of a german shepherd). Once we were at a pet store with him and he was walking on his leash while we were trying to find yet another playmate, when we heard a terrible yelp. We turned to find Hobbes on top of a miniature chiwahwah that belonged to the owner. We have never been so embarrassed and quickly left before Hobbes attacked the great dane. Hobbes is a very sweet little boy (usually) and he is spoiled rotten --- he's slept in the bed with us since he was potty trained, and is allowed to run around his bedroom (behind his safety gate) when we're not at home. He loves us and we adore him. BAD NEWS: Well, we noticed in January that he began losing his hair up his tail and on his behind. After 2 or 3 vet visits, our vet decided he needed to have his adrenal gland removed. When we went to get him the vet explained that he found tumors on both, and explained how difficult it is to work around the right one since its underneath all the vital organs. All 3 surgeons agreed that the surgery was a success and that medication wasn't necessary. That was May 10, and Hobbes is still bald on his tail and behind. Plus its starting to thin up his back. I took him back to the vet a few weeks ago only to find that his doctor has moved to another city. The doctor now is also a ferret specialist, but wasn't involved with his surgery so he doesn't know anything more than the chart says. He said its no big deal that regrowth may take 6-8 months. I am very discouraged and worry that waiting will prolong further treatment if necessary. I am wondering if anyone could comment on this and let me know if I should find another specialist. THE SAGA CONTINUES: A month or so ago I was on my way to work in the middle of a flash flood and 60 degree weather (in July) and I saw this thing running across the road. It turned out to be a 5 week old black kitten who now lives with us and goes by the most perfect name of "JINX". As expected Hobbes hates him. Jinx is just a kitten who wants to play with any and every thing which usually means Hobbes. Jinx is finally outgrowing the ability to go in Hobbes cage (they both eat kitten chow), but still pounces him at every opportunity. Hobbes fights back, but Jinx's claws scratch his bald spot. We reprimand Jinx for chasing him, but its hard when that's all a kitten knows to do. Hobbes sleeps mostly in his cage now (by choice) and won't use the litter box for anything. We are moving to our new house tomorrow when Jinx will magically become an outdoor cat and we know this will help. I was wondering if anyone has a non-social ferret, or, as I like to refer to it, "Hobbes Complex" (which to Hobbes means "....are you implying that I'm not the only cutest little sock stealing, raisin craving, fuzzy in all the world?") What should we do about these two? We are both in love with Jinx, but Hobbes is first and foremost in our lives. Thanks so much for any information you can provide. We all look forward to hearing from you --- Happy Honking (Hobbes prefers to "honk" than "dook"), Nikki, Jay, HOBBES, Jinx 11. Subject: Reply: Herbs for Connor From: Celeste Jacob Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:12:18 -0700 Hi EquineAmy, :) Here is what I found in the herbal remedy realm that you might try on Connor: Combination: Licorice, Safflowers, Horse Radish (NOT the condiment!), Dandelion. "A valuable formula that is effective in correcting adrenal and pancreatic gland imbalances in Hypoglycemia. It stimulates the exhausted adrenal gland to begin working. Helps with stress, has no side effects." These herbs can be found at your local health food store. You may want to go in and ask what's most effective, tincture or capsule. I prefer to use as much tincture as possible, though more expensive. Just add these to baby food mush, Ferretone, or whatever he likes that you can get him to eat. Good luck, and let me know how it works. Celeste, Dusty, (getting to be the living testiment that herbs do work) & Ferris (healthy, but gets them all anyway, just for good measure) ------------------ End of FAIML #327 ----------------------