From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 5:38 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #329; Sept. 10, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #329; Sept. 10, 1999 1. No Adrenals-Now what? 2. proglycem, dosages, uses, side effects 3. Intro & questions 4. happy adrenal story 5. MAILING LIST 6. misc stuff 7. Lupron pricing 8. Lupron too expensive 9. Melatonin if you can't afford Lupron 10. Insulinoma symptoms... 11. Insulinoma symptoms The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their urgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret-experienced vet you can find! A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: No Adrenals-Now what? From: KTrythall@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:02:17 EDT My 4 year old Teddy had one adrenal gland removed last year and the other one debulked about 2 months ago. Should I be looking for his symptoms to occur again? I thought I heard somewhere that adrenal glands regenerate themselves. Is that true? Teddy is very aggressive still. He is the alpha. Hard to tell what's normal for him anymore. He seems to be sleeping more but then again he is getting older. He's going to be five soon (age guesstimate by the shelter I got him from) His fur on his tummy is growing back a little. Seems slow to me. Now he has blackheads on his tail. Is that a symptom of anything? What is the best way to get rid of them? Thanks- Kelly and the Furry Five 2. Subject: proglycem, dosages, uses, side effects From: "nicole palmieri" Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:36:27 PDT Hi everyone, Our local shelter recently got a donation of a bottle of proglycem and I am researching when to use, how much to use and side effects. I have read several different dosages, so I am looking for experiences you all have had. I would especially like to hear from the veterinarians on the list - I am a vet but haven't gotten much ferret work in my first year out. Luckily that will change when I find a job up here. anyways, I appreciate any info you can give - I understand how busy lives get thanks, nikki 3. Subject: Intro & questions From: Rachel Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 01:33:26 -0500 Hi everyone. I am new to the list and think it is a great thing. There are SO MANY ferret pages on the web that it is hard to find answers to specific questions! I have really bad spelling, so please ignore my errors. My name is Rachel and I have 4 fuzzys: KIZMIC - the oldest, 7yrs. Very mellow, very sweet. She takes care of the sick guy, Otto. Starting to loose hair on her tail - and a large bald spot on her head. Sabel color OTTO - almost 7yrs. The smartest of all. Comes to his name. Rolls over on command. Also the biggest - 2ce as big as the others. Insulinoma/Adrenal diseases. similar to the sable, but lighter color MITTENS - almost 7yrs. The "spunky" one. nickname s/b Hudini. Mittens can get into ANYTHING - or out of almost anything. loves to give kisses. Silver mitt. CLAUD - 6 1/2 yrs. Sweet as can be - he's our "slow" one. He is like the court jester - and not very smart. Claud is also blind - he is ALWAYS bumping into things and then backing into his "war dance". Starting to loose hair on his tail. Sabel color. (again - please excuse spelling . . . .) Otto has the Insulinoma/Adrenal diseases. I have been reading about these things for years. Otto first started out w/ thining hair, pawing at his mouth, itching, and staring blankly into space. I knew when I made the appointment what the problem was. I am fortunate enough to live w/in 90 minutes of Midwest Bird and Exotic Animal Hospital (which is where Dr. Susan Brown is at.), so I did have that going for us. Otto has been on Prednizone for almost 1 yr (what a difference that made!). He is now on lasix (yuck), and temporarily on pet tinic (a vitamine sup.). Because of his age, I did not want to put him through the operation. His hair is almost completly gone and he has gotten REALLY fat. He also doesn't have the energy he used to have - he still likes to play - and seems very happy, but he doesn't play that long - maybe 10 minute sessions and back to sleep. My goal is to keep him as happy and healthy and comfortable as possible for the duration of his life. Once that is not the case, I will (very sadly) have him "put to sleep". I was hoping to get any advise on how to help him out. My biggest concerns right now are: 1. He is WAY TOO over weight - is this common? I mean he has rolls on his legs! I have changed his food - but it's not doing much to help. 2. He's very itchy. We do use an herbal spray to help - it works OK, but I was hoping there was something else I could to for him. 3. what is this shot Lupron? 4. Any other info. . . . recipes, herbal care, etc. (what do some of these herbs do? I'm clueless on this subject) Thank you very much Rachel and the "Zoo": "Kizy", Otto, Mittens, Claud, Zeus (Anatolian Shepherd Dog) and Clyde (Sugar Glider) 4. Subject: happy adrenal story From: "Celia J. Clinkinbeard" Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 02:16:47 -0400 Okay, I'll post my story too! I wrote before about Cokie. She's had both adrenals completely removed (vena cava ligation on the right). One in March, the other in May. She'll be 6 years old in November. She takes Florinef and prednisone daily. They're compounded and she loves them more than any treat. It took a few weeks to get the doses adjusted, during which she felt pretty puny, but now she's doing wonderfully. More energy than she's had since before last Christmas! Eating well, bouncing around, attacking her Mom's feet, tending to her stash of toys, etc. The change in her was so dramatic after surgery. I had assumed her decline in activity was due to age, even though she wasn't very old. And it wasn't a dramatic difference, just a gradual slowing down. But now, after surgery, she is back to her old, bouncing happy self. (except for her glucose, which we're trying to get an accurate level on. It seems a bit low, and I'll report on that later. But unrelated to adrenal problems!) I do want people to know there are success stories, but I also realize that not everyone has a very good ferret vet. I've recently realized, too, that even with a good ferret vet, problems can arise, and you aren't guaranteed a happy outcome. So, unfortunately, its still a tough choice for any ferret mom or dad. But Cokie is doing well, and we wish the best for everyone out there! And thanks for all the help! Celia 5. Subject: MAILING LIST From: JANETDEBRA@cs.com Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:55:07 EDT LYNN, WOW, THIS IS GREAT. MY PRINTER DID OVERTIME, NOW HOPEFULLY I WILL HAVE TIME TO REREAD ALL OF THIS INFORMATION. I AM IN NEED OF INFORMATION REGARDING PROSCAR AND ITS DOSAGE PRETAINING TO MALE FERRETS. IT IS SUPPOSED TO REDUCE SWELLING IN THE PROSTATE LIKE AREA THAT OCCURS WITH AN ADRENAL TUMOR. ANY INFORMATION WILL BE HELPFUL. LUPRON - I HAVE JUST STARTED TWO OF MY MALE FERRETS ON THIS TWO MONTHS AGO. ONE HAD EMERGENCY SURGERY JUST TWO DAYS AFTER HIS SECOND SHOT. HE HAD A BLOCKED BLADDER AND WE COULD NOT GET THE CATHETER IN TO RELIEVE HIM SO IN WENT THE VET. MY OTHER LITTLE BOY IS DOING WONDERFULLY. NO GREASY SMELL. HIS FUR IS BEAUTIFUL AGAIN AND HE IS VERY PLAYFUL. I DISCUSED THE FACT WITH MY VET THE ELEVEN FERRETS IS VERY EXPENSIVE, PLEASE TRUST ME ON SOME ON THIS AND LETS GET BUSY WITH THE LUPRON. SHE WAS VERY GOOD ABOUT IT. SO ONE IS OFFICIALLY ON LUPRON AND THE OTHER WE CALL UNOFFICIAL. I HAVE READ MANY OF YOU GO IN TO HAVE YOUR FERRETS GIVEN THEIR LUPRON SHOTS AT $30 OR SO A SHOT. WE ARE DOING OURS A LITTLE DIFFERENT WITH MAY SAVE A LOT OF MONEY IN THE LONG RUN BUT IS INITIALLY VERY EXPENSIVE. I HAVE PURCHASED THE WHOLE 30-DAY HUMAN SUPPLY FROM THE PHARMACY AND KEEP IT STORED IN MY FREEZER. OUT OF THIS I GET 32 .2CC SHOTS FOR FERRETS UNDER 2LB OR 16 .4CC SHOTS FOR FERRETS OVER 2 LBS. HOWEVER IT WORKS OUT I THINK IT WILL BE CHEAPER IN THE LONG RUN. THE SUPPLY COST ME APPROXIMATELY $400, BUT IT IS WELL WORTH IT. WE GOT THE DIRECTIONS OF HOW TO DO IT FROM KATHY JOHNSON-DALANEY WHO FIRST STARTED WITH THE LUPRON. THE SHOTS ARE VERY EASY TO GIVE. IF ANYONE HAS QUESTIONS ABOUT IT PLEASE CONTACT ME. I ALSO READ QUESTIONS ABOUT FOOD. THE BEST I HAVE FOUND IN THE NINE YEARS I HAVE HEATHENS IS TOTALLY FERRET. IT IS SPENDY BUT, IT PUTS WEIGHT ON THEM, CLEANS UP THEIR COAT AND HELPS TO CLEAN THEIR TEETH. HOWEVER, SOME JUST WILL NOT EAT IT. THOSE ON ARE SCIENCE DIET MAINTENANCE. I DID USE SCIENCE DIET GROWTH UNTIL I HEARD THEIR WAS SOMETHING IN IT THAT WAS NOT GOOD FOR THE SPLEEN. THIS CAME FROM THE MAKER OF TIMMY"S TONIC. (WHICH STILL SITS IN MY CUPBOARD AS I AM UNSURE OF IT. I ALSO HAVE AN ECE CARRIER IN MY PACK SO I HAVE JUST STARTED HIM ON TYLAN FOR THE INTERMITANT DIARRHEA. JUST A PINCH A DAY IS SUPPOSED TO KEEP IT AWAY. I CERTAINLY PRAY THAT IT DOES. MY BABIES ARE SPOILED ROTTEN EVERY MORNING THEY GET CEREAL. THIS IS GROUND UP TOTALLY FERRET, JUST A PINCH, IN WARM WATER. IF IT IS A SICK FERRET, IT GETS IT IN PEDIALYTE. WHICH THEY WILL KILL FOR. MY HEATHENS DON'T SEEM TO LIKE THE SOUP STUFF WITH AD AND WHATNOT IN IT, BUT I ALWAYS GIVE EVERYTHING A TRY. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS REGARDING A SWOLLEN SPLEEN, OTHER THAN SURGERY. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE HELP. WE ARE NOT A FERRET RESCUE, BUT THE TOWN ON PRESCOTT, AZ. SEEMS TO THINK SO SINCE WE MOVED HERE FROM OREGON A LITTLE OVER A YEAR AGO. WE THINK IT IS WONDERFUL. JANET MILLER (JANETDEBRA@CS.COM) MODERATOR'S NOTE: Hi Janet. How long are you planning to keep the Lupron in the refrigerator freezer? It isn't known how long it will keep, once mixed. Good sources are saying a month is for sure, and probably longer. But it isn't known for sure when it will begin to lose its potency, unless it's stored at -70°F. What were you told? 6. Subject: misc stuff From: "Mary L. McCarty" Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:15:18 -0700 Tammy: >I have a wonderful little baby that has adrenal problems. I just >found out Lupron is too expensive($198.00 for a 4-month shot). I am >heart broken. I wanted to get her started on it, to help her. Now I Actually, that's pretty cheap for the 4 month shot (a vial of that stuff is $2200), my vet charges $250 and our other shelter vet charges $225. It's also cheaper than surgery in some cases. You may only need the one shot - some vets are reporting long-lasting results (over 6 months). Have you tried Lysodren? That is cheaper than Lupron. However, if your ferret also has insulinoma you should not use Lysodren since it aggravates the condition and it doesn't seem to work as well as Lupron. Sue: >Hi my Ferret Bandit was diagnosed last year with adrenal gland >disease... We since then found that she has now HYPOGLYCEMIA... We've Did you do surgery for the adrenal or are you thinking about it now that you've also discovered the insulinoma? How old is Bandit? What does your vet recommend? >cinnamon and Bandit is a Sable (our vet informed us that it was more >common in sables) anyway lately we've noticed that our Bandit has >been Color has nothing to do with whether or not they will get adrenal or insulinoma. From the breeders I've spoken with, sables & albinos are the most stable genetically to breed. >IS STILL HARD (im even teary-eyed writting this).. Is it common for >her to be wheezing and what is it? Thanks Sue Heron and Bandit Weezing can be caused by numerous things. Cardiomyopathy (sp?) is a possibly, or it could be allergies or a cold. Have you changed your laundry detergent recently? Please talk to your vet about the weezing and check out Ferret Central's (www.ferretcentral.org) Medical FAQ's on Insulin, Adrenal & Cardio (heart disease). Debbie: >I had to make the decision to let Nancy go. I took her for >exploratory So sorry to hear about Nancy. You have my sympathies - at least she went without suffering. Joy: >shot for adrenal symptoms . . . I thinks it's called Lupron (I'm not >sure). I need help. I would look into the Lupron shot (anywhere from $198 - $250). Lysodren could be tried if that's too expensive. Did the biopsy of either gland show cancer? I had the same thing happen and to be honest, the glands were cancerous and it just took over her body very rapidly. She survived 7 months from the first show of symptoms thru two surgeries with no improvement (actually the symptoms got worse). She went very peacefully one day in her sleep surrounded by her two best friends. Gail: >the hair will grow back by the time the sutures are out but Phoebe's >hasn't. It has now been a little over 3 months so I called Dr. Funk >to tell him. He was not real concerned and it make up to 6-8months. >He also suggested I might want to have the blood test done in 4 >months or so just as a check on things. ---What are your experiences >with this test ? ---Do you think Phoebe's hair will grow back? Sometimes the hair doesn't grow back until the next coat change. I've had hair regrowth immediately and I've had it take months. I don't usually do the blood tests, but it couldn't hurt. The Univ of TN panel is supposed to be very accurate. Mary Mary McCarty-Houser Pennsylvania Ferret Rescue Association Director, Centre County Branch http://www.ferretrescue.com 7. Subject: Lupron pricing From: "Michael F. Janke" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:01:10 -0400 > 1. Subject: Lupron too expensive, any suggestions > From: bussfuss@webtv.net > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:33:09 -0500 (CDT) ions?? > > This the first time I have posted on here, So here goes..... > I have a wonderful little baby that has adrenal problems. I just > found out Lupron is too expensive($198.00 for a 4-month shot). I am > heart broken. I wanted to get her started on it, to help her. Now I > don't know what to do. Do any of you know where I can get it > cheaper??? Have you tried the compounding pharmacy that is listed in Dr. Weiss' article on Lupron treatment for ferrets? It says they sell single, ferret sized doses of the 4-month Lupron, and though I have not checked out the price, I can't imagine that it could be anywhere near $198. Dr. Weiss' articles (two of them) about Lupron treatment are on my adrenal/insulinoma web site (see my signature for the URL). But for quick reference, this is the relevant portion from his article: "...Professional Arts Pharmacy 1-800-832-9285. Ask for Dr. Weiss' protocol of 2 mg vials (it must be the 4-month depot). It will last at least 4-6 months." I don't know if your vet has to call or if you can. You have nothing to lose by trying. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc MODERATOR'S NOTE: Actually, it is $198! For a shot that appears to last 4-6 months, according to Dr. Weiss's protocol sheet. I called the pharmacy and asked if I could be sent a half dose, which would work out to more than two times the dose I was giving per month, 100 mcg (the first and older protocol), which is too low for males. But the pharmacisit said they couldn't divide it smaller than 2 mg. Dr. Weiss has tested a couple other drugs on adrenal ferrets to some success, both Casodex and Arimidex. For info on them (I won't go into detail here) visit the above-mentioned website, or write to Beth and ask for Dr. Weiss's info on medical treatments for adrenal disease, specifically about Lupron, Casodex, and Arimidex. Beth's e-mail addy is MiskaBC@aol.com. Lynn 8. Subject: Lupron too expensive From: Linda Iroff Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:24:26 -0400 Tammy The 4 month Lupron shot lasts up to 6 or more months for most ferrets. Are you willing to spend about $35/month on your ferret? Surgery is generally far more expensive, and probably not a good idea at her age. My suggestion: spend the money and improve the quality of her life as much as you can. Linda Iroff Oberlin, OH Support the Ferrets Unlimited/Raisin Retreat Ferret Shelter by visiting http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?cid3585&mid30146 9. Subject: Melatonin if you can't afford Lupron From: Marsha Stanek Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:54:38 -0500 Subject: Lupron too expensive, any suggestions From: bussfuss@webtv.net Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:33:09 -0500 (CDT) ions?? We don't have any scientific proof of using melatonin - but at the shelter where I volunteer, a number of adrenal ferrets are given .50cc melatonin (1/2 of 1 mg pill) We started doing it on ferrets that were not good surgical candidates because a vet wanted to do a study. We are still waiting for that vet to report definite stuff - but the ferrets on the melatonin generally get their hair back. And some of them that were fairly old when first given melatonin are still hanging in there. I have a five year old, Noodles, that has had two adrenal surgeries and still has symptoms. So, I have put her on melatonin and intend to keep her on it the rest of her life. I guess there is no good answer for the darn adrenal, we just keep doing our best! 10. Subject: Insulinoma symptoms... From: "Leslie Sturla" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:27:53 -0100 Debbie posted last requesting we send in lists of Insulinoma symptoms. My Samhain was diagnosed 3 months ago. Hope this helps: -Lack of energy!!! Don't assume it's the heat or age!20 -Staring off into space (If your ferret stops activity and just lays on the floor--that's real fatigue, they're not just being cute--although it is ) -watery eyes/weight loss/dry fur (general signs of illness) -Most severe, seizures brought on by an inbalance in sugar/insulin levels. Sam was unresponsive and drooling. If your ferret is in this state, rub a small amount of syrup (corn or maple) on his gums... should help up the sugar levels quickly. My vet did a blood test to diagnose. If your ferret shows any signs, have it done--it doesn't hurt *that* much! Above all, pass on this information to people you know with ferrets--so many (like me) are ignorant of these diseases and their symptoms. People with *healthy* ferrets don't subscribe here...so they miss all of this very helpful information! Lesley and da boyz, Samhain and lb.20 MODERATOR'S NOTE: Don't forget to check out Pam Greene's FAQ on insulinoma disease, too! Info on how the obtain the FAQ is included in the heading of every FAIML list, and subscribers receive it upon subscribing to FAIML(along with the adrenal FAQ and info on the other disease FAQs). Lynn 11. Subject: Insulinoma symptoms From: "Michael F. Janke" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:14:33 -0400 > 8. Subject: Insulmina Symptoms > From: Sunshine > Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 15:09:33 -0700 > > I have been hearing tons of symptoms of Insulmina and people not > knowing what is wrong with their ferret. So I ask people who have > gone thru this to please post the symptoms so we all can learn. Hi Debbie. Common symptoms of insulinoma are: hypersalivation; a glassy-eyed, staring off into space expression; gagging/pawing at the mouth; lethargy, no desire to eat; staggering/drunken appearance; head bobbing like they're dizzy; hind leg weakness; seizures in later stages and eventually, coma and death if not euthanized first. Ferrets with insulinomas may have one or more (or even none initially) of these symptoms. Usually, the first sign that something is going on is finding a low blood glucose during routine examinations. Beasley was diagnosed a year and a half ago. He's not very active and getting somewhat fat, and his only other symptom has been three occasions of hypersalivation in the last six-months or so. By the way, it's insulinoma, not insulmina. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc ------------------- End of FAIML #329 ---------------------