From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:12 AM To: mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: (Fwd) Adrenal List #33 Forwarded message: From: Self To: @SENDLIST.PML Subject: Adrenal List #33 Reply-to: Lynn McIntosh Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:44:58 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 18:48:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: Adrenal Group -- Amy Cada , AndresenK@aol.com, Anthony.Mastropolo@sandoz.com, beek@feist.com, Beth , "Brian L. Schmidt" , Cat13Dog5@aol.com, dadams@dzn.com, Dave and Pam Taynor , Dixie Carter , Ela_Heyn@notes.pw.com, Ellen Jensen , ferreton@pond.com, ferretwise@top.monad.net, ferts@telusplanet.net, gabby , Gary Holowicki , Helen Andersson , Jan3GDFA@aol.com, Jason & Alison Overstreet , Jennifer Skeem , Jennifer_Morlanne@email.fpl.com, Jim Dunn , Joanne Gelormino , Juliana Quadrozzi - GA Domestic Ferret Association , "Karen Purcell, DVM" , karen wisniewski , lbarber , Lee McKee , Lisaferets@aol.com, Lorraine Tremblay , lotaweasel , Margaret Lehman , "Mary L. McCarty" , "Michael F. Janke" , Monica Maples , Pam Franklin , Pam Franklin , Patricia Curtis , Rick Riley , ROCHELLE@art.fss.buffalo.edu, Sburbine@aol.com, sterling , TMccabe453@aol.com, TrinaSing@aol.com, Troy Lynn Eckart , "Valori K. Blank" , Vicky James Subject: Adrenal List #33 Hi there! So sorry for the delayed list. I'll spare you the details. Thank you to those who wrote about Wally. A really screwed up blood test (showing kidney results so high he wouldn't be alive) delayed surgery until tomorrow. Poor little guy. He's staying overnight at the vets and I can't visit. I hate that! But I talked to his (our) new vet today and she seems fantastic. It is well worth the extra drive, though I'm having to be a bit picky about diagnostic tests as she is expensive (I'm not complaining!). She found a mass, but also found two small, probably normal sized, kidneys. We'll get to find out what it is tomorrow. So, please hold sweet little Wally in your thoughts! He is CRAZY about cantalope, and loves rubber toys, but otherwise is a very unassuming, sweet lad. Thank you for calling, Pam. I ran out of time to call you back, but will try tomorrow. It really was sweet and helped a lot. I'm sorry to hear of your sick fuzzies :((((( We have our first CA member, or one that has asked for anonymity at least. Welcome! Please reply to her via the list, unless it's an emergency of course. Again, please forgive me for the dalay in this list. Fuzzy hugs, Lynn Mc. Adrenal List #33, dated August 5, 1997 1. Reply: Adrenal List #32 2. Kelsey Update 3. Reply: Oliver post 4. Reply: Adrenal List #32 5. Need Advise 6. Adrenal issues - alternatives? 7. Adrenal List/Treatment options other than surgery 8. Reply: Adrenal List/Treatment options other than surgery 1.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:51:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Adrenal List #32 Alicia, >Hello Lynn, I am a bit confused-- are there other symptoms which suggest >adrenal? The enlarged spleen may indeed be lymphosarcoma... any hair loss >on the underside or belly??? My Bear showed no hair loss on the tail at all and he was adrenal. He started out with a rectangle of hair loss on his belly and a bald patch right on the top of his head. It was only right at the end that he started losing more hair from all over his body (but still never on his tail). He really didn't show any other symptoms until the urinary blocking occured. About the spleen....it seems to be my experience (and from what I've heard from others) that an enlarged spleen is a possibl sign of lymphosarcome, but 9 times out of 10 it turns out to be nothing. I tend to ignore it if the ferret is healthy in all other respects. Should I be having some type of test run to make sure it's not lympho? I thought you could only do a biopsy and would hate to have them go thru surgery just on that sympton alone. What do you guys think? >Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:32:24 -0500 >From: Jason & Alison Overstreet >Subject: Our Oliver >If anyone has any suggestions or comments, we would really welcome them! >We are so glad to have a resource like this for support! Thanks, Lynn! When they did the bloodwork, did they do the estradiol test for adrenal problems? If they didn't, I would do that before surgery. Sorry it's not much to go on. Good luck! Mary ;-) Fatso, Skinny, Maggie, Sweet Pea & foster ferret, Spigot (what a loverboy!) In remembrance of Bear, gone to the Rainbow Bridge on June 28 1997 2.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:28:01 -0400 (EDT) From: AndresenK@aol.com Subject: POST - Kelsey Update Hello all This is Kelsey, I just got back from the vet and mom said I should say thanx to all you kind folks out there who sent well wishes and prayers for me and that I should give you all an update on how I am doing since my adrenal surgery 2 weeks ago - so here I go THANX EVERYONE !!! The vet said that I look great - and he took all my stitches out !! He said that my biopsy results are in and that the results are : ALL TUMORS WERE NOT CANCER !!! YIPEE !! YAHOO !! The fur on my belly where they shaved me is growing in - mom likes to rub me there - she says its ssooooo soft - naturally I do not mind :-) I feel alot better since having my right adrenal gland removed and the 2 tumors from my pancreas , I am into exploring everything now and playing with my 8 brother's and sister's boy, do I love running from one end of the house to the other !!! I really got spoiled by my mom while I was recovering and loved all the special attention especially not having to sleep in the cage but, as they say - all good things must come to an end sooner or later - well, the only thing that has changed is that I am sleeping in the cage again but, thats ok - I am back to sleeping in my favorite place - right in front of the food - GOSH - I LOVE TO EAT !!!! Anyway - mom is saying that I shouldnt ramble on to much so, before I go I want to wish my fellow fuzzies out there all the best and to my brothers and sisters facing a challenge right now - be strong - all prayers are with you all for a speedy and full recovery !!! Take care everyone PS... attached to this is a really cute short movie of a baby dancing to the song " Hooked on a feeling " I thought everyone could use a laugh if it is not passed on and you want it email me and it is yours !!!!! Thanx again everyone !!!!! Sincerely Kelsey "The Polar Bear " Katherine and the 9K's Kira,Kloee,Kory,Koko,Kandi,Kasey,Kelsey,Kaila and Kiku 3.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 19:22:13 -0400 From: "Michael F. Janke" Subject: Reply: Oliver post > Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 13:32:24 -0500 > From: Jason & Alison Overstreet > Subject: Our Oliver [snip] > Well, last week, we noticed that Oliver was shedding quite heavily and > losing hair on the tip of his tail. We were immediately very afraid, > knowing that loss of hair is a symptom of adrenal disease. Oliver seemed > to be itching an awful lot as well, but our others have been itching too. > Also, all 3 of our ferts have already gone thru their shedding period a few > mons. ago, and Petey and Chloe are not shedding at all. So, back to the > vet we went.... I would be hesitant to go for exploratory surgery at this point in time. Shedding and weight loss could just be a seasonal thing. I know it's the middle of summer, but the way we screw with the light cycle, these guys can get/shed their winter coat/weight just about any time of year. Also, each ferret may do this at different times even in the same household. Hair loss on the tail is not necessarily a sign of adrenal. My first ferret had a totally naked tail for the last 3 or so years of his life. He died at 7 1/2 and never did develop an adrenal problem. Also, Punky Doodle had a naked tail when we got him at age 3, and it was also naked until the day he died at age 6 1/2. Punky did develop adrenal problems, but not until the last year of his life. Max, my 5 1/2 year old that is due for right adrenal surgery soon, has thinning hair but not on his tail. Although it's not a good idea to let an adrenal problem go on, it's not exactly something that's of an emergency nature. Oliver is so young that it seems unlikely he has an adrenal problem, though definitely not impossible. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke - mjanke@gate.net * Member, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * Editor, SFFCR's Ferret Footnotes Newsletter * Webmaster, SFFCR's web site * * Shelter Website - http://www.gate.net/~mjanke 4.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:21:01 -0400 (EDT) To: Lynn Mcintosh Subject: Reply: Adrenal List #32 Hi Lynn, Thanks for filling me in on Wally-- I may have read it, but I am reading so much these days-- my cognitive condition is a bit frayed! Yes, I would from your recent posting feel that adrenal is probable. However it may just be the adrenal she feels, or it may be an enlarged kidney as well. Not to scare you but we are seeing numerous ailments in the early alters here-- I kind of suspect he might be in this group? However the penis symptoms and the occasssional blood in the urine may indeed be an adrenal indicator-- I have seen and heard this before. Hang in there-- and have you checked into having the vena cava ligated????? This seems a better solution than the debulking. We had several shelter kids in hospice in upstate NY. Dr. Allen Edwards at Brockport Animal Hospitasl has had a great deal of success with bi-lateral removals and ligating the vena cava--- he would be hapy to consult with your vet. Please confer on this possibility. We have a ferret friend that had a debulking and within 3 months it had regrown to 1/2 the original size, he is in his last months with his mom as I type. Well, I have a scad of shelter appts today and hungry kids that need baths-- good luck, I send well wishes. Alicia a shelter Mom 5.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 14:00:39 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: Need Advise NOTE from LYNN MC: "J" is from California and I'm not sure she wanted her real name included. Please reply on the list to her. I can't forward replies to her at this time, but hope to be able to in the future. Of course, if it's an emergency, I will always forward! L Mc. Hi everyone, My name is "J" I am owned by Rupert 2 y/o, male, Fiona probably 7+ y/o a rescue so I don't know exact age MF, female, and EB 6 y/o, MF, Female. EB started to loose hair just above her tail, the vet was not convinced that she has adrenal problems. He recommended I do a test for insulinoma for EB & Fiona. On August 9th we go in for the tests. He said that in the surgeries he has performed in the past for adrenal disease that 70% of the ferrets also had insulinoma does that sound correct, for the life of me I can't remember reading that such a high percentage also had insulinoma. Could someone please comment. About two weeks ago it was very hot and Fiona had a heat stroke (in my opinion), the other two were fine but she got out of her drawer and went potty and then just collapsed, I put a package of frozen vegetables in her bed, put her on top of the veggies and lots of ice in a ziplock on top of her, she did not seem to snap out of it so I put her under cool running water and dried her and she seemed to come around. My vet thinks she had a seizure, I don't. I pay alot of attention to my ferrets and never once has she dazed off in the distance, she wakes immediately, she doesn't foam or scratch at her mouth. She sleeps alot but she is also no spring chicken. When she is awake she seems active enough not to cause alarm, she loves going outside and dancing around. That is the reason Fiona is going to the vet for the insulinoma test. EB on the other hand has about a 1"x2" patch of fur missing above her tail otherwise she seems to have a good attitude, poop, appetite etc.. My vet told me to consider the age of these two ferrets and that they would probably only live another year if that, regardless if I had the surgery or not. He told me it would be $600 - $700 per ferret isn't that alittle high? Could someone with more experience please advise me on what I should do. My vet thinks the girls are a little old for this type of surgery and it would not buy me any more time with them. I am sorry if this has been discussed in the past, I just joined the adrenal list last week. I feed them Totally Ferret, Timmy's Recipe, Timmy's Tonic, Iams, Pro Plan. I apologize this post is so long, I hope it makes sense, all I know for sure is that I (ferts) need your help. Thanking you in advance. Is surgery the way to go? "J" Owned By Rupert, Fiona & EB 6.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 08:43:01 -0400 (EDT) From: ferretwise@top.monad.net Subject: Adrenal issues - alternatives? Lynn, and fellow list subscribers-- This post is to bring to your attention the promise that there may be something more we can do for our adrenal ferrets. Has anyone here considered alternative therapies? I am speaking in particular to glandular support protocals and / or natural remedy protocols. There are some noted vets who do practice homeopathic / naturalopathic mode and they have kept some adrenal kids going-- and I might say in fine form, for years!!! This is a controvsial topic, I know, but we have shown one remarkable case of adrenal remission in a bi-lateral -- who eventually succumbed to lymphosarcoma. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. I will be away until the beginning of next week, but anyone who has access to Natural Pet magazine, could find a listing for Charles Loops, DVM. He is a great starting point. Fondly in ferrets, Alicia a shelter Mom 7.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:28:27 -0400 From: Tryntje Miller To: 'Lynn Mcintosh' Subject: RE: Adrenal List/Treatment options other than surgery Hi Lynn. Thank you for sending me the adrenal lists. They have been helpful and informative. For various reasons, I am going to have to unsubscribe from this list. Our lives are in a great upheaval at this moment and the month of August may include moving with all of the moving complications and then some. I will be lucky enough to be able to read the FML which is too bad because that list is a helpful lifeline as well as a family lifeline. I will certainly keep all of the issues and eventually get caught up. Darn, I just got caught up from the last major FML pile-up. I did want to say a thing or two about Nikki and perhaps ask a few things. Perhaps the bio files that you had mentioned earlier would be helpful. You can decide after you read the rest of this letter. Nikki is one hyper/feisty (sp.) little (just under a pound - always has been) gal who was a biter when we got her and has never really kicked that habit although she has improved 90%. She is a fixed female and have no idea where she came from. She was given to us by a pet store (long story) when she was about 6 months old. Just before this last Christmas, Nikki's fur started thinning out and then she lost the fur off of the base of her tale. Next came the hairloss at her shoulders, down her back, from her arm pits down past her tummy, and the tops of her back feet. Her energy level was normal as was every other function. Nothing changed except her fur loss. Around Feb. her vulva swelled up, over night. From Christmas to Feb. we saw three vets - our regular one who is very good but does not do adrenals, one more that I wasn't too secure about and an exotic animal vet who had done many adrenal surgeries, and we spoke to Dr. Dutton on the FML. Nikki seemed very healthy and the only way we were going to tell for sure that it was adrenal (although in my mind I felt that it was) was to do a Tennessee panel which the exotic vet has done on other ferrets. This was our best bet. She is such a nervous Nelly, she is so tiny, and she is 5+ years old, plus it was going to be very expensive and considering our situation right now (our lives have changed greatly since we got all of our fuzzies and if we would have known what was going to happen, we would not have gotten so many - long story), well, we decided that Nikki wasn't going to have surgery. Sometime in March, Nikki's vulva shrunk back to normal and she got some of her fur back but not all of it by a long shot. Other than the fur loss, still nothing has changed. My question is, if this really is adrenal, what will gradually happen to Nikki? What signs do I look for, what will her symptoms become? (Lysoderm is an option - I talked to the vet about that.) What do I do for her, etc. What can I expect? Please send any input that you can and as I mentioned earlier, please take me off of the adrenal list sometime in the next week. If for some reason you want to post this on the list, that is O.K.. Thanks Lynn for all of you hard work with this list. It is very useful. Nikki thanks you too. Tryntje ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 18:15:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: Tryntje Miller Subject: Reply: Adrenal List/Nikki On Fri, 1 Aug 1997, Tryntje Miller wrote: > Hi Lynn. > > Thank you for sending me the adrenal lists. They have been helpful and > informative. For various reasons, I am going to have to unsubscribe from > this list. Our lives are in a great upheaval at this moment and the month > of August may include moving with all of the moving complications and then > some. SNIP Well I can relate to a crazy August! I wish you the best. > I did want to say a thing or two about Nikki and perhaps ask a few things. > Perhaps the bio files that you had mentioned earlier would be helpful. > You can decide after you read the rest of this letter. I'll send them along. > Just before this last Christmas, Nikki's fur started thinning out and then > she lost the fur off of the base of her tale. Next came the hairloss at > her shoulders, down her back, from her arm pits down past her tummy, and > the tops of her back feet. Her energy level was normal as was every other > function. Nothing changed except her fur loss. Around Feb. her vulva > swelled up, over night. SNIP Nikki seemed very > healthy and the only way we were going to tell for sure that it was adrenal > (although in my mind I felt that it was) was to do a Tennessee panel which > the exotic vet has done on other ferrets. This was our best bet. She is > such a nervous Nelly, she is so tiny, and she is 5+ years old, plus it was > going to be very expensive and considering our situation right now (our > lives have changed greatly since we got all of our fuzzies and if we would > have known what was going to happen, we would not have gotten so many - > long story), well, we decided that Nikki wasn't going to have surgery. > Sometime in March, Nikki's vulva shrunk back to normal and she got some of > her fur back but not all of it by a long shot. Other than the fur loss, > still nothing has changed. My question is, if this really is adrenal, what > will gradually happen to Nikki? What signs do I look for, what will her > symptoms become? (Lysoderm is an option - I talked to the vet about that.) > What do I do for her, etc. What can I expect? I can relate to getting a lot of fuzzies without realizing the eventual, possible, vet expenses - it hurts. If you don't opt for surgery, I would at least get her an estradial test (estrogen, I understand, is the most common elevated hormone). I'd ask vets you've seen to forgo the exam (she's had this), to save the fee, and just administer this test. The U Tennesee charges $45 for two tests, so probably less for just the estradial, though a vet may tack on handling charges. If estradial is high, consider trying Lysodren, and I can send you some info on a vet I highly respect's protocol for use (different than usual protocol right now). Hair loss waxes and wanes, and the progression of hormones ravaging the body from the diseased adrenal may lead to anemia and other problems. Lysodren isn't real costly and there have been some posts lately about a good, easy way to administer it. It doesn't work with all fuzzies, but it would be worth a shot I think. Whatever you decide, I certainly with you and Nikki good luck. Some vets just opt for surgery and can't help with chemical treatment, and it can be a hard search to find a good one that can. So I wish you very good luck. And please give Nikki a hug for me. Lynn and the beloved fuzzies ----------------------End of Adrenal List #33-----------------------