From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Monday, September 13, 1999 5:38 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #330; Sept. 13, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #330; Sept. 13, 1999 1. Possible insulinoma? 2. baby food 3. Lupron, Update on Thea 4. Lupron and Lysodren 5. various 6. Proglycem 7. Another Melatonin observation 8. Expensense The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their urgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret-experienced vet you can find! A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: Possible insulinoma? From: ela.heyn@db.com Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:42:22 -0400 I'm a bit concerned about some hair loss in my little Scooter, and was hoping to get input from you guys on whether this sounds serious. Here goes: it's my ferret Scooter, who is a 4.5 year old MF sable. He's always been healthy and active, except for one bout with helicobacter about 2 years ago which has not recurred. I brought home a new foster ferret, Smokey, the beginning of July. Smokey is VERY active, loves to wrestle, and loves to grab Scooter by the neck and drag him around (in play) or initiate a wrestlefest. A few weeks after I brought Smokey home, I noticed that Scooter was missing some hair on his "chest" (not his stomach, but the area under his neck and in front of his front paws). Since that time, he has lost progressively more hair, and the area right under his chin is now pretty bald, extending to the tops of his front legs. He's also lost a bit of fur on the very top of his head, which is another area where Smokey often grabs him. The area where the fur is missing is just plain bare ... no bite or scratch marks .. just no hair! Otherwise, he has no symptoms. He's not aggressive, he has not lost any other fur, he's playful, he eats well ... he's just like his usual self. Does this sound like a situation that warrants further investigation? Many thanks for any and all input! - Ela Ela Heyn Harborside Mail Stop 3024 201-860-3336 ela.heyn@db.com 2. Subject: baby food From: batzwing@webtv.net (june batz) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:58:14 -0700 (PDT) I understand ferrets with insulinoma have to seriously limit their intake of sugar..the baby food I mix her pred with is apples and chicken or pears and chicken, the ingredients are apples, finely ground chicken and water, is the sugar from the apples to much for her. She really enjoys this and I would hate to take it away from her..what about giving her ferretvite, being that the first ingredient is malt syrup, I guess I should cut it out, and just give her ferretone?! Please let me know. June 3. Subject: Lupron, Update on Thea From: Ron DeBaecke Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Hi All, Just a little info and a update. Thea has just recieved her 4th shot of Lupron(1 month dose).. Thats 3 months that she's been on it. i would say she has made a 100% recovery. (Atleast visually!) He vulva swelling is completely gone, all fur is back and more beautiful than i ever remember! All energy and playfulness is back! I am VERY impressed with lupron. Also, i have spoken with a few people who have had ferrets on Lupron for 2+ years and still going strong. Our vet has been in it from the get go, so i have met some of the patients while at the office.. I have spoken with 2 people whos vets have definitly seen a major reduction in tumor size while on Lupron! And finally, our once a month Lupron shot costs me almost 32.00 bucks, and few hours of my time to drive. The way i see it, if your ferret needs Lupron, just sacrifice 1 cup of bought coffee a day! Or one carton of cigerettes a month! I think thats a small price to pay to make a fuzzy very happy and comfy!(And the owner too!) So almost anyone can afford Lupron...... Thanks Ron 4. Subject: Lupron and Lysodren From: Renee Downs Slette Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:43:58 -0400 Would somebody please point out that Lupron does not cure the problems, it simply removes the symptoms. Sometimes this is more dangerous, because the adrenal disease is still active. If the ferret is able to undergo the surgery, I heartily recommend it. My Smokey had 3 surgeries for adrenal. Like Celia, we had some stabilization trials, but now he is gaining weight very nicely, his hair is soft and lovely, and last night I caught him wrestling with the best girl. Also, since he is feeling better, he has started giving me kisses again! :) Also, Lysodren is not a proven treatment for ferrets. However, there are vets out there using it.Like the Lupron, it does sometimes reduce symptoms. Because ferrets are so different, it is important that you have a ferret-knowledgeable vet who reads the current literature and keeps up with treatments and ferrets. Best to all, Renee Downs MODERATOR'S NOTE: Hi there. My feeling from talking with vets involved in treating with Lupron, is that it's safest right now to assume the tumors don't stop growing. It isn't proven otherwise. So I'm still pro-surgery where it's possible. Lysodren, on the other hand, will reduce tumors, but doesn't seem to work, generally, on adrenal carcinomas. It reduced a huge tumor in our ferret by two-thirds. It kills off adrenal tissue, so does, when it works, arrest the disease. (It's considered a chemo drug and, as such, has to be considered and used very carefully). Lynn 5. Subject: various From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:54:57 +0000 Kelly, > > My 4 year old Teddy had one adrenal gland removed last year and the > other one debulked about 2 months ago. Should I be looking for his > symptoms to occur again? I thought I heard somewhere that adrenal > glands regenerate themselves. Is that true? > If the right adrenal gland was only debulked, then tissue remaining can grow into a problem in the future. Also, ferrets seem prone to ectopic adrenal tissue, elsewhere within the abdomen, that can cause future problems as well. > Teddy is very aggressive still. He is the alpha. Hard to tell what's > normal for him anymore. He seems to be sleeping more but then again > he is getting older. He's going to be five soon (age guesstimate by > the shelter I got him from) > Actually, slowing down doesn't seem too normal at 5, have you checked his blood glucose recently? > His fur on his tummy is growing back a little. Seems slow to me. Now > he has blackheads on his tail. Is that a symptom of anything? What > is the best way to get rid of them? I usually treat blackheads with daily washing of the tail with an anti-bacterial soap or shampoo. Tail blackheads are not a sign in and of themselves, but many ferrets with tail baldness and/or blackheads goes on to develop adrenal disease. Nicole, > > Our local shelter recently got a donation of a bottle of proglycem > and I am researching when to use, how much to use and side effects. > I have read several different dosages, so I am looking for > experiences you all have had. > Diazoxide (Proglycem) is an insulin-blocking agent in insulinoma therapy, usually in combination with prednisone. The dose is 5-30 mg/ferret q 12 hrs PO PRN I like to use it after a tolerance for prednisone is found, and usually can decrease the dose of pred once the glucose has returned to normal. Rachel, > My biggest concerns right now are: > 1. He is WAY TOO over weight - is this common? I mean he has rolls > on his legs! I have changed his food - but it's not doing much to > help. Try to increase his exercise - I find carpeted stairs with some toys are a good start. > 2. He's very itchy. We do use an herbal spray to help - it works > OK, but I was hoping there was something else I could to for him. Itching can be normal in a ferret, or could be a sign of external parasites (not that common) or adrenal disease. A vet should determine the cause. 3. what > is this shot Lupron? Lupron has its own info in the archives - I recommend reading the various pros and cons from the past lists. Hope this helps, MODERATOR'S NOTE: Many of the FAIML lists are archived on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma website, which is described (including address)in the intro paragraphs of every FAIML list. Also, Dr. Weiss's info and protocol for Lupron can be found there on the website, or can be obtained by writing Beth at . Lynn -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com 6. Subject: Proglycem From: "Tracey and Stephen" Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:17:02 -0400 Nikki, In response to your question about Proglycem, here is my experience with it. Our ferret Scully, was diagnosed with Insulinoma in February. He had successful surgery in March, but was on the decline again in August. He had his Blood Glucose checked on 8/02/99, and it was at 71. We started him on .01cc of 5mg/ml Prednisolone twice daily. On 8/13/99 his BG was at 54, so we raised the Pred to .02 cc of 5mg/ml twice daily. His energy level, etc. had not improved at all on the increased dose of Pred, so on 8/20/99 we started him on .01cc of 50 mg/ml Proglycem twice daily, in conjunction with the Pred. Friday, 9/10/99, his BG was 101 !!! His energy has been great, he plays for much longer periods of time, is eating well, and seems to be much happier. The vet is confident the Proglycem is working, we are now going to try to wean him off the Pred all together, and just keep him on the Proglycem. The one drawback for some will be the price of Proglycem. I bought a weeks worth from the vet for $25.00. After doing some research, I found that ordering through a local pharmacy is less expensive. I just got a 30ml prescription from the pharmacy for $125.00, which should last a few months at his current dosage. As for side effects, Scully has not had any problems, except for 1 night he did vomit several times. We do not know what the cause of that was, whether the Pred, Proglycem, or just an upset stomach. He has had no other problems, and his increase in active is very noticeable. Oh, and he thinks the chocolate-mint flavor is delicious! I hope this is helpful, sending get well wishes to all the sick fuzzies, Tracey and Scully 7. Subject: Another Melatonin observation From: FerretsR1@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:05:56 EDT I too have been using it at my shelter. Though I have only observed one ferret regaining it's hair, I have seen reversal in male agression, straining to urinate and it appears to stop the progression of symptoms. Surgery is always the best solution. But for some that are not good surgical candidates this appears to be helping. I have found that the sooner they go on it the better they do. I use the same strength .5mg as the previous poster. I personally noticed that they do better taking it in the morning. Faith Ferrets R #1 Shelter & Rescue 8. Subject: Expensense From: Sunshine Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:12:49 -0700 I hope I don't get anyone mad at me for this. My family and I don't like to see any animal suffer. Why do you all go threw the expense for helping the sick? Don't get me wrong, we love all our ferret's, but spending $1,000 or more just doesn't sound reasonable to me. How do you know the animal is not suffering? Sure I have read many with Adrenal don't suffer, but I really am not sure this is true. Thanks for listening and I do love them. Just wondering why people spend so much on an animal... Money is not as important as watching one suffer. We had one put to sleep and this was very hard on us all. The day before I cried day and night. Never did this for any human being before. She was dying and nothing I did helped.. In fact, my mom had to take her in because I could not. Thank God for moms. Debbie ----------------------- End of FAIML #330 -------------------------