From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 5:56 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #334; Sept. 20, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #334; Sept. 20, 1999 1. My Romeo 2. unable to get blood for tests 3. Lupron experiences 4. Re: new problem 5. Re: red skin 6. Red Skin & adrenal 7. Re: FAIML #333; Sept. 19, 1999 8. Lupron Experiences? The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their urgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret-experienced vet you can find! A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: My Romeo From: SnickleMa@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:29:19 EDT Hello, and thanks Lynn for adding me to the list. My Romeo is a 5 year old male ferret, who just had adrenal and insulinoma surgery. His adrenal tumor had attached itself to his liver and so part of the liver was removed; his insulinoma tumor was in the middle of his pancreas, so no other tissue could be removed from around the site. The surgeries were just 24 days ago. He has had one complication after another, pain, nausea, and now possible internal bleeding. He is at the vets now (having tests and maybe an ultra-sound )after getting sick over the weekend. The pathology report said there was bone growing in his adrenal gland, is this a common finding in ferrets? Anne Miller 2. Subject: unable to get blood for tests From: "Janice L. Underwood" Date sent: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 01:07:37 -0400 (EDT) Hi all - Took my albino in last Friday for bloodwork. Her adrenal symptoms have been rapidly progressing even though nothing was found on the last exploratory. The problem is that we couldn't get blood. Every time they tried the veins collapsed. We even knocked out with gas to try for the jugular again - no luck, ditto for the large leg veins. In addition to the adrenal symptoms she is showing possibly bilirubin in the urine, so I'm going to grab a urine sample first chance I get. Drinking like a fish and still having very yellow urine... Any suggestions to make getting the blood necessary for a chem profile any easier or even possible?? Thanks, Janice L. Underwood Schenectady, NY Svarri@hotmail.com UnderwoL@union.edu 3. Subject: Lupron experiences From: Linda Iroff Date sent: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:27:24 -0400 Lori To the best of my knowledge, no serious side effects have been reported from Lupron use in ferrets. It has been used to treat adrenal disease for close to 2 years at least, but studies on long term effects have not been completed. Some ferrets receiving the multi-month form develop a lump at the injection site where the drug collects, but this resolves itself as the drug is absorbed. The major side effect seems to be a lightening of the wallet, since the protocol recommended by Dr. Weiss costs $200 plus vet fees. That dosage does last 4-6 months for most ferrets, up to 7 or 8 in some. But Lupron is NOT a miracle drug. It does relieve the symptoms very effectively, but there is no confirmed evidence at this time that it does anything to slow or reduce the tumors. Surgery is the still considered the best option. Linda Iroff Oberlin, OH Support the Ferrets Unlimited/Raisin Retreat Ferret Shelter by visiting http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?cid=3585&mid=30146 4. Subject: Re: new problem From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" Date sent: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:00:14 +0000 Kim, > >SNIP> > > I don't know whether the gland or glands were removed, or if it was > just the tumor. I do know it was on the right side. No, uh, adhesion > (?) to the vena cava. I plan on calling my vet on Monday to find out > more. I figure this makes a big difference on post surgery > treatment. It's been about 3 1/2 weeks. He has been very lethargic. > The tumor and the gland are the same. > He is on steriods, and I push the water. I went to another vet to > do some follow up blood work because I felt there was something else > going on. Luckily his glucose is fine (he was doing the flat ferret > deal, no other clinical signs of seizures etc etc) but his WBC and > neutrophils, and RBC are very low, and his liver enzymes are high. > I didn't really know what to do, neither do my vets, so we started > him on some antibiotics, amoxicillin right now. I just reduced his > steriods to .5 ml every other day. He's been on the antibiotic for > 2 days. he does seem perkier, although he tired quickly. > > He doesn't war dance yet, but I think his fur is starting to look > better....I guess the main question is: where do I go from here? > What kind of questions should I ask the vet who did surgery?? (i > have a wellness vet that i like alot, but she doesn't do surgery on > ferrets, another vet did) S > I'd ask about the need for steroids, if the left adrenal is still present. Steroids can cause elevated liver enzymes, and are really unnecessary in unilateral adrenal removal. How is his diet? Are you supplementing with duck soup or other high protein food? All surgery cases should get food supplementation to improve healing. Hope this helps, -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com 5. Subject: Re: red skin From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" Date sent: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:37:40 +0000 Rob, > > I have a problem...Junior is 2 years old male. He lost a lot of hair > from the tail and furthermore he has developed red skin since 10-15 > days ago. It looks like he has some sort of food allergies: he has > red ears, red mouth (lips), red nose, he is red around the eyes, and > his paws are red too and he has lost hair in the red areas. He has > also reddish belly, but when I wash him the red stuff disappear for > few hours. This usually does represent an allergy, but if it washes off it is usually due to contact with an allergen, such as rug shampoo, powders, new detergents or fabric softeners for bedding, etc. Benadryl usually helps resolve the signs, but a trip to the vet may be in order if it is severe. -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com 6. Subject: Red Skin & adrenal From: WGHOL@aol.com Date sent: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:22:58 EDT While Stinki was suffering with right adrenal disease, she experienced extreme "red and itchy" skin. Although not a common symptom in adrenal disease, it is one that my Vet has seen on a few occasions. It can be "allergy related" as well, but when it comes with the hair loss, my first thought would be adrenal disease. A skin biopsy can determine whether the problem comes from allergies. all the best, Wendi, Buddy (& my Stinki angel) 7. Subject: Re: FAIML #333; Sept. 19, 1999 From: JJetth@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:57:00 EDT Post anom : Diane sorry to hear about Disney I feel for you. I have a fuzzy that has lymphoma. Poncho has been doing pretty good on Timmys tonic , It's been almost a year ,but now we suspect adrenal. He is going in today for Utra sound so hopefully we will find what's going on . They are just special little souls that the thought of loosing one just breaks my heart. All mine were rescues and I love them all . JJ 8. Subject: Lupron Experiences? From: Lynn McIntosh Looking to get an idea of how risky Lupron is -- my vet already >told me about the "falling over" thing.. (sounds like quite a head >rush to me ;) Figured while she was doing her research, I'd do my >own. Hi. I'm wondering if you don't have Lupron confused with Lysodren. Lysodren is a chemo drug and can have serious side effects, especially if not carefully monitored. It kills off adrenal tissue, killing off normal and abnormal tissue, so decreasing the size of the abnormal growth. Lupron, which ends up lowering hormones associated with symptoms of adrenal disease (not known is whether it has an effect on size of tumors) has had very little side effects associated with its use. All I've heard of are short-lived hot flashes occuring soon after the initial injection of the time-released drug. Lupron is considered very safe, though it is still considered in the experimental stages while clinical studies are being done. Lynn ---------------------- End of FAIML #334 -------------------