From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 7:06 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #337; Sept. 23, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #337; Sept. 23, 1999 NO FAIML 9/25 - 10/3/99: Hi there. Just wanted to let you all now I'll be gone from Sat., Sept. 25th, to Sun. Oct. 3, so there will be no FAIML during that time. As usual, if you need to get info please post the FML (info about the FML in intro paragraphs below). I can get one more list out tomorrow, and in the meantime make sure to e-mail people (from this list and tomorrow's) directly, and post if you want for a later list. I'm off to New Mexico to spend my birthday week with my mom in her pink adobe in Alamogordo, and to go horsebackriding with my brother and his wife on their ranch in Socorro! Would sure love to get Anita's address, former FAIMLite who recently moved from California to New Mexico, if anyone has it. Anyways, glad, as always, that you're all here on the list :) Lynn 1. FRUSTRATED! 2. update on Rascal 3. surgery on 7 year old ferret 4. Lysodren The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their urgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret-experienced vet you can find! A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a good source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: FRUSTRATED! From: Celeste Jacob Date sent: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:05:43 -0700 Well, its the neverending story of Ferris! I am frustrated beyond belief!!!! He has sort of a 2-part problem, and I'm hoping I can get some feedback and suggestions from you guys 'cause I know there's been some discussion about this before intermittently. Dr. Karen, if you have any advice on this, as well, I would be most grateful. His primary problem has been CHRONIC diarrhea since February when I got him. Two fecal tests (the last was 2 weeks ago) have been done, neither have indicated bacteria or parasites. Full bloodworkup indicated nothing abnormal. After treating it initially - to no avail - with antibiotics, PediaPred, digestive enzymes like Pet Defense & Bene Bac, and even changing the food from Iams chicken to ProPlan turkey, the vet did surgery in April, thinking it was likely caused by paraprostatic cysts, caused by adrenal disease. They removed the left, even tho it looked normal, along with an abnormal lobe on the right. NO paraprostatic cysts were found, and there was NO improvement of any kind on the diarrhea following surgery. About mid-summer, we put him on Loperamide (Imodium) for a week or so, and his stool did start to solidify some, but was still small and thin. It gradually again became very small, green, and mucousy. I took him back two weeks ago, which is when they took the (normal) blood tests. All they could recommend was to either go in again for an exploratory, which I REALLY don't want to do to him!!!!!!!, or switch his diet again from turkey to rabbit. I chose the latter, but he's not eating it. BTW, he'd stopped eating the babyfood mush, too, in the last couple of months and has dropped 6 ozs. Yikes!!! A week ago last Tuesday nite, I noticed he didn't look good at all. He was shaky, eyes watery, and when I picked him up, I noticed his penis was leaking a yellow pus. We rushed him down to the vet, but they couldn't get any urine for a sample, so put him on antibiotics and said if it worked, that we'd see improvement in 24-48 hrs. By Friday, no improvement! I called Saturday to ask if we might try Baytril (gee, nothing like being your own vet, huh?!), since its a powerful antibiotic that years ago saved our pig's life, and cleared up a TRIPLE bacterial ear infection in our dog. He's been on that since last Saturday. Today is Thursday, and although his appetite has greatly improved (he's eating turkey baby food like a pig now), his stool is solidifying a bit more (YEAY!), and he seems to feel better (thank heaven!!!), there's NO improvement on the penis infection. :( I spoke with my vet today and I will try to get a clean urine sample for them to test and go from there. If that doesn't reveal anything, we may do an ultrasound to see if its a bladder stone. The VERY last attempt to diagnose would be exploratory surgery, but I will do just about ANYTHING before resorting to that! I'm really at the end of my rope, and just beside myself with all this!!!!!!!!!!! I'm frustrated with my vet because they just can't seem to nail this . . . and a little perturbed b/c when she was in there in April, she said she "didn't think to take a biopsy of his intestine". Now who's paying for that mistake? Ferris, with this prolonged diarrhea problem, and me, monetarily! My vet really IS very good and very ferret-knowledgeable and compassionate and caring, and has done 2 pancreatic/adrenal surgeries on Dusty also, but I'm just getting so frustrated with the lack of a diagnosis. I'd like a second opinion, but there aren't very many good ferret vets on this side of the Bay Area. Because of the fact that 1) I live in a remote area up in the mountains, and 2) there's the "illegal" factor, it is neither convenient nor wise to be carting him all around Northern CA. There are actually about 5 ferret-knowledgable vets at this clinic (and he's been seen by 4 of them) so it really is a good, reputable place, I guess I'm just looking for fresh perspectives. My questions to you are have your babies ever had an infection like this and what was it? And have you any other suggestions about the chronic diarrhea? We tried the Pred in the event it was Proliferative Colitis, but it did nothing. I tried feeding him pumpkin for the high fiber, which helped a little, but it never completely went away. You name it, I've tried it, but who knows . . . someone out there may have some new info that will help. Sorry this post is so long. Thank you so much for your attention and any input you might be able to offer! :) Celeste, Dusty & Ferris 2. Subject: update on Rascal From: KIMBERLY WILLIAMS Date sent: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:51:08 -0700 Well, since Rascal has been on Amoxicillin, he is doing alittle better. My wellness vet said I should cut down the steriod use to every other day .5 ml (basically he had another week to go at .5 ml every day, but she said, to go ahead and start it every other day,) then .25 ml for 2 weeks. He is not so lethargic, he actually ate a raisin. (He loves them, but I only allow at the most 2 a day and he had stopped taking them for weeks) so I am very excited. The surgery vet removed the right adrenal gland but didn't take the left one. I have been trying to supplement his feeding, but he will have none of it. He is very picky and it's a good thing he likes TF. (whew) otherwise I would be in trouble. I do give him drops of linatone (it helps him take his meds better) and I give him stuff that is I guess, like Nutrical (comes in tube, directions say 1 teaspoon daily for healthy ferrets, 2 for recovering ferrets) and he will take that, but not much. He will go in for repeat blood tests on 27 September. Hopefully things will have calmed down. I did put him back in with the others and he seems much happier to have his brothers and sister close. I don't think we are out of the woods yet. The vet thinks we have another problem--his heart. Maybe that's why he lays around as much as he does. I will have to say he has shown major improvement since beginning the Amoxicillin and decreasing dose of steriods. His belly still has the "pot belly" appearance, but not as bad as last week, I think the swelling is decreasing maybe? Keep your fingers crossed. Thank you all for your advice. I will have the path report by Monday on the tumor. (i remember vaguely him saying hyperplasia, but that's all) We'll see. Kim and Rascal 3. Subject: surgery on 7 year old ferret From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:19:04 -0400 > 2. Subject: Questions > From: "Andy and Amy Wilson" > > The dilemna is this. Should I be considering surgery for either or > both of these diseases at this age? When insulinoma was diagnosed 1 > year ago I opted to try to control it with medication and didn't > honestly expect her to make it this long. She is still in > relatively good health and now I seem to face the same decision > again. > > I'm leaning towards not doing surgery because of her age. It's all > very confusing because I can never seem to get a straight answer on > expected life spans for ferrets. What would you do? Any good > medications or options to control these diseases? Average lifespan these days seems to be in the 5 to 7 year range. Some live longer than that, but they're usually the ones with no health problems. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like there are many of those. It's a tough choice to make, and quite honestly, I don't know what I'd do until I was faced with the situation. Beasley is not quite 5 years yet, has had Insulinoma (treated with prednisone) for a year and a half now and is beginning to show signs of thinning hair. I'm still not sure what course I'll take. There are only a couple things you can do for Insulinoma. Surgery, prednisone and/or Proglycem, plus a good, high protein diet. There are a few more choices with adrenal disease, but surgery is the best option with Lupron coming in a close second. I think if Beasley was 7 years old, I'd opt for Lupron instead of surgery. I may do that even though he's just under 5 years. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 4. Subject: Lysodren From: Richard and Katharine Date sent: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:21:56 -0400 After my post about mixing Lysodren with Duck Soup, Troy Lynn wrote me that you shouldn't mix it with a water-based substance. My Duck Soup contains Pedialyte and Sustical/Ensure. I immediately called my vet who saw nothing wrong with it. Troy Lynn got this information from her pharmacist. Well, it got me in a panic since I've been giving it to Lily that way for months. It's the only way she will take it. I even mix her NutriStat and LaxaStat in Duck Soup for the same reason. Troy Lynn went on to say...(hope you don't mind me quoting you)