From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, October 10, 1999 6:31 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml Subject: FAIML #340; Oct. 10, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #340; Oct. 10, 1999 Hi there. Michaela's post, #3, comes so close to the reason I started this list. I, too, lost a wonderful ferret, Percy, due to complications of adrenal disease, though he was under vet care and had adrenal surgery, but just one biopsy, not an adrenal, was taken, though he had typical symptoms. He subsequently died a sad death after a urinary tract blockage from which he never recovered. It was during Percy's illness that I started this list. Such a death he suffered would be much less likely to happen to any of my fur kids today thanks to the knowledge I've gained and the people on this list (though I did have one on Lupron - too low a dose it turns out - block unexpectedly, but we got him unblocked and into surgery pronto). Also, just today I got a short message from someone whose vet had told them their ferret had Cushing's disease. For Percy I called several vets in Seattle looking for an experienced surgeon. I was stunned at the number who were still in the dark ages of ferret medicine (yet were seeing ferrets), who considering adrenal disease in ferrets to be the same disease as in dogs, which do get Cushing's disease, another form of adrenal disease but significantly different in diagnosis and treatment from ferret adrenal disease. Now I have a very experienced, caring vet, and I have this list through which to communicate and learn. Anyway... Michaela, my thoughts are with you as I recall vividly the frustration and disappointment and panic I felt around trying to help my Percy, but feeling lost among waves of conflicting information and a shortage of ferret-experienced vets. Perhaps you'll graduate to become one of the growing number of highly ferret-experienced vets, whom I treasure dearly. Fuzzy hugs, Lynn 1. Pascal, Adranal disease and enlarged heart 2. adrenal/insulinoma update 3. Intro, story to share, questions: vets, others re: prostate size, age risk- surgery, risk of unilateral s?, ferret-sitters&vets,etc 4. Angel 5. cancerous adrenal 6. spontaneous hair growth 7. refusal to eat The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their urgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret-experienced vet you can find! A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: Pascal, Adranal disease and enlarged heart From: "Seaurchin" Date sent: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 20:16:15 -0500 Dear Dr. Karen, I have a 5 1/2 year old ferret (Pascal) who had his left adrenal gland removed last fall. He made a full recovery but is again showing signs of adrenal disease. When Dr Schott examined him he discovered a heart murmur. X-rays showed a slightly enlarged spleen and heart. My question is would it be advisable to try Pascal on Lupron with his bad heart? I don't want to put him through another surgery at his age and the vet doesn't think he would survive. Right now his coat is thinning out but his weight is stable and he seems relatively comfortable. He is on .2 mm Lasix twice daily and .7cc Enalapril every 48 hours. He is eating and drinking well but sleeps a lot. He had a hypoglycemic episode a month ago (completely limp and unresponsive) but came out of it when I rubbed honey on his gums. He hasn't had another episode since. Can you give me an idea of the long-term prognosis? Thank you Patty, Pascal, Cisco, Scout and the two newbie twins Mongo and Tubbs 2. Subject: adrenal/insulinoma update From: suerosen@stellarnet.com Date sent: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 21:14:01 +0000 Well, as I believe I posted, Rocky died following complecations from surgury for his adrenal/insulinoma. Which ended up saving the life of my ferret with the bone tumor on his skull. Things have been going fairly well here. But now my 6-7 year old Rosa has insulinoma, and is displaying signs of adrenal. She also has ulcers. At the moment, I'm working on switching her to a BobC's gravy version as the main part of her diet (switching all of them actually), and see if I can bring her blood sugar back up...since I'm wondering how much of the low blood sugar may be due to her possibly not eating as much due to stomach discomfort. She *appears* to be eating fine, but better safe than sorry. She's getting Kayo pectin twice a day for the ulcers at the moment. Another thing that I need to investigate is the fact that all of the ferrets that I've had CBCs done here have elevated protien levels. They are getting a high-protien food, but no higher than is in quality ferret food (they get high-quality kitten/cat food). I'd have to go back and dig out the records to check what the rest of their CBCs looked like. Any ideas here? (I'll be happy to check the rest of it and talk to folks backchannel) Later folks! Sue suerosen@stellarnet.com 3. Subject: Intro, story to share, questions: vets, others re: prostate size, age risk- surgery, risk of unilateral s?, ferret-sitters&vets,etc From: "Miriam Maurice" Date sent: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:43:50 -0000 Hi, I'm new to this list and oh how I wish I had been a part of the FML and this list this past year. I am a second year vet student at Ohio State University and have four gorgeous ferrets right now. Unfortunately, one of my ferrets recently died of DIC/Sepsis secondary to Suppurative Prostatitis (abscess) (short version). He had all the signs and symptoms for a lil over a year and no less than three vets didn't even consider his prostate. It was supposedly 2x it's normal size on necropsy which leads me to my first question since I can't find an answer anywhere, what is a normal ferret's prostate size?? His situation was complicated by the original surgeons who knew he had adrenal disease but when faced with not knowing which gland was affected, chose to biopsy both (don't ask, I am still shaking my head on this one). I just assumed the vets at my school knew what they were doing. And, in all fairness, I have since found out that the surgeon was not regular staff but a resident who was hanging around while someone was on maternity leave. Well, a subsequent surgery elsewhere ended up with two surgeons and all the fancy glasses (like microscopic) could find NO adrenal tissue anywhere, despite the fact that Spikey had continues to lose hair to the point of baldness, had horrible pruritis, was displaying male sexual behaviour and dysuria (not blockage but not using the box anymore and urinating in dribbles across the floor as opposed to one long void). The only theory we could come up with at the time was that the adrenal tissue had broken off and 'set up camp' elsewhere in his body (adrenal tissue can 'live' elsewhere if need be). He had originally been diagnosed with concurrent insulinoma after histopath of two pancreatic nodules removed during his first surgery. The two tumors they didn't remove during that surgery were absent during the second surgery). That was the best news of all. I was told not to worry, that ferrets didn't die of adrenal disease and when the symptoms got bad again perhaps we could go in and find the tissue. Unfortunately, as most of you on this list probably already know, that is not true; ferrets do die of adrenal disease (or complications of ad) and waiting is not a good idea. This leads me to my next questions. The most recent vet I have seen has known that my two girls have adrenal disease for nearly a year now. His reasoning for putting off surgery, as I understand it, is that I am a rare client in having brought him ferrets with such mild symptoms as he usually sees them for the first time in far more advanced stages. He was concerned at that early a stage of being able to find the adrenals. I know the old school thinking was to wait till the adrenals enlarged but everything I have heard and read till now says to go in immediately. I am concerned about two things. The first is age. I read Karen Purcell (DVM) saying she doesn't recommend surgery in ferrets over 6 years of age. Why is this? What appears to occur with ferrets over that age? My two girls will be 5 soon but that isn't far from 6. I also read somewhere that ferrets with unilateral adrenalectomies usually show signs of adrenal disease on the other adrenal gland about a year postsurgery. Is this true? How many is 'many'? Are these bilateral cases that were simply overlooked/unrecognized or is removal of the first adrenal gland somehow setting up conditions for hyperplasia of the remaining adrenal (pathologic hyperplasia that is)? Aside from the risks of prostatitis and blockage and aside from the possibility of blowing a blood vessel, what other risks are there in waiting? Are there any other risks specific to females? I have another question for people living in Columbus, Ohio and/or the surrounding areas. Are there any 'ferret-vets' you personally recommend? I would love to have first hand recommendations. Feel free to email me. If there is anyone who is willing to ferret-sit and has an ECE free home, please email me as well. I have ECE 'naive' ferrets (they grew up in Vancouver, British Columbia, where I'm from, and when I left, ECE had not reached BC and/or Canada at all). I have few ferret-saavy people I know in Columbus and the few I know have ECE in their households. I apologize for this email being so long. I just wanted (maybe needed too) to share my story about Spikey and let other people out there who are feeling regret and who are blaming themselves that they are not alone. We cannot do everything and we cannot know everything. You would think as a vet student I might have an advantage. Not true. Everything the vets told me I believed and everything they said made sense. These thing happen and while I'm still learning to let go of that anger and regret, I hope it helps anyone else out there in the same situation to know they are not alone. I promise (..rr..hope :)) my next emails will be on a happier note. Btw, if anyone is interested (for educational purposes) in Spikey's full necropsy report (this was the short version of his story) along with his clinical history I would gladly forward it. Just email me a fax number or snail mail address. Michaela Maurice College of Veterinary Medicine Ohio State University Class of 2002 4. Subject: Angel From: Linda.Doran@att.net Date sent: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 16:25:50 +0000 Dear Angel, When you came to my house in early 1995, the vet had saved your life by successfully treating a liver infection and your owners had not come back to get you. One of the veterinary assistants adopted you for a couple of months. Later, she said she couldnÆt keep you because you kept biting her husband. I gave her lots of good suggestions from the Ferret Mailing List about how to train ferrets not to bite. She named you Munchie, which I thought was very unfair. You were a beautiful, soft, fluffy, albino ferret who spent the first two years of your life in a cage in the backyard. I couldnÆt believe anyone would do that to a ferret. You acted as though you couldnÆt believe that you would always have a full bowl of food, and you ate heartily. I named you Angel in honor of the loving ferret I knew you really were. I told people you bit me 1+ times û once for real and the second time just to test me. You were not a biter, not even when you went to the vet, and the vets and their assistants all adored you. Your hind legs were always a little clumsy as you ran around the house trying to keep up with the other ferrets. I think you couldnÆt believe that you would always have room to play. You gained weight and your fur changed color because you were really a silver mitt with the dark red eyes of an albino. Later, one of your vets removed your spleen and you walked better than youÆd ever walked before. Not long after I got you, I discovered you were deaf. To test this, I got real close to you several times and made loud noises that woke all the other ferrets while you slept. But deafness never bothered you. You dooked and bounced with the rest of them, and you always knew that if you squealed loud enough, Mom would come and rescue you. A couple of years ago, a vet suspected that you had lymphoma but an aspirate came back inconclusive. Earlier this year, a biopsy of one of the lymph nodes on your hind legs confirmed it. YouÆd been on Prednisolone for a long time by then and I continued to treat you with that. A couple of months ago, we tried some chemotherapy but the tumors didnÆt respond and I decided against subjecting you to stronger chemotherapy drugs that would have suppressed your bone marrow and probably made you much sicker. I didnÆt want you to suffer and you were doing so well on your own. You also had adrenal disease and had lost much of your fur. You were a fighter and a hearty eater and you followed Chocolate Moose around the house incessantly while he tried to jump on you and chase you away. Then, last weekend, we went for a hike and you began to pass blood in your stool. Soon your stools were very dark. I gave you some antibiotic to make sure it wasnÆt Helicobacter coming back to torment you, and your stools got a little more solid but the color didnÆt change. Most difficult of all, you could hardly walk. You would take a couple of steps and then lie flat on your stomach. Chocolate Moose missed having you follow him around, because he looked for you and checked up on you every now and then. I gave you fluids and liquid food by hand but within a couple of days, you could hardly eat. I knew it was almost time and tried to tell you that it was OK; that I would understand if you needed to leave. I took you to the vet yesterday and rather than euthanize you, I asked her for a painkiller. This seemed to help you relax and sleep much better. Finally, last night, at about 11:15 p.m., I heard a very slight gasping sound and picked you up and placed you on my stomach in the darkness. You breathed very deeply, with long pauses between breaths, about four times and that was all. I knew when you were silent that you had gone. I only hope you didnÆt suffer too much at the end and if it hurt to take those last breaths, I am sorry. We love you very much, Angel, and we hope to see you again someday at the Rainbow Bridge. You will always have a special place in our hearts, and we thank you for sharing your life with us. Love, Mom, with Lucky Charm, Chocolate Moose, and Zipper 5. Subject: cancerous adrenal From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:03:27 -0400 > 2. Subject: Hi > From: Mary Oyer > Monday morning. The vet left a message on our answering machine > yesterday afternoon and said he had gotten Chryssies pathology > report. He said her adrenal was malignant. > > Sorry this is so long, but I was wondering what direction to go next > with Chryssie. In a lot of cases, the malignancy is contained within the adrenal and therefore is removed when the gland is removed. The pathology report usually gives some sort of indication if that's the case. There's probably not anything you need to worry about in terms of the cancer. Of course, each case can be different, but normally its removed and that's the end of it. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 6. Subject: spontaneous hair growth From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Sat, 9 Oct 1999 21:03:25 -0400 > 1. Subject: question about hairloss? > From: "Megan O'Shaughnessy" > Date sent: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 14:22:56 -0700 > > Is it normal for a supposed-adrenal ferret who has lost almost all > of his fur to suddenly sprout a nice, even, colorful new coat??? I don't know if one could call it normal, but adrenal ferrets do sometimes go into a spontaneous remission of symptoms for reasons unknown. I've seen it in ferrets at our shelter. Usually, when they begin to lose hair the second time around, it doesn't ever come back again without treatment. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 7. Subject: refusal to eat From: "B&Donna Cleary" Date sent: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 00:31:47 EDT You may want someone who knows ferrets internal anatomy give shakespear an exam. This sounds very similar to a problem our young rodney had. Rodney had an enlarged spleen that was huge. We had just gotten him from a friend who could no longer keep him. He was a big boy, but he didn't seem to happy(when your spleen is six times larger than it supposed to be it probably doesn't feel good) and was laying out flat. Then we noticed that he wasn't sleeping curled up, he would lay out long and flat to sleep. We thought that he was missing his former owner. Things just kept getting worse and we took him in to the vet and right off the bat during the exam he pointed out the organs size. Rodney is almost a year old and we opted for a spleenectomy and he was much lighter after. He also was up and about ready to play like a youngster should. Of course we have to restrain him so he doesn't tear his stitches out, which will be removed first of next week. Some of the symptoms you mention are similar. Best of luck our thoughts are with you guys. B.,Donna,Carrie and our business of ferrets Ikyo,Butter,Rodney,and our angels across the rainbow bridge Wacko and newly arrived Nikyo. ------------------------- End of FAIML #340 -------------------------