From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 10:22 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #345; Oct. 26, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #345; Oct. 26, 1999 1. Help Before Thursday!!!! 2. Bridgett and Buttercup, chemotherapy 3. Daffy has Adrenal disease and an alien on his Liver!!! 4. reply to Lisa Reynolds: FAIML; October 21, 1999 5. herbal medication with adrenal disease / AAE The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their urgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret-experienced vet you can find! A ferret-experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an e-mail. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Subject: Help Before Thursday!!!! From: "Amy Flemming" Date sent: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:52:45 +0800 Hi! Just moving to Australia from the US, I was contacted by a woman here regarding Insulinoma. She thought her ferret had insulinoma and had a hard time getting information form vets in this area and turned to me for help. (It is thought that ferrets do not develope insulinoma here and there has only been one reported case in Sydney) I have had one ferret suffer from Insulinoma. Unfortunatly I paniced when she went into grand mal seizure and the rushed the ferret to an emergancy vet that administered valium and killed her (she was dead with in 20 minutes and the necropsy stated an overdose). So I do not have that much practial experience. She has had 2 blood tests (I believe that last was a fasting) and both have pointed to positive - she goes in for exploritory on Thursday (our Thursday is your Wednesday - we are about 12 hours or so ahead). The first test showed her glucose level at slightly under 1. I do not know what the second test showed. Here is the story: Ferret - spayed female - non-descented. Late alter. Estimated to be around 4 or 5. The ferret, for a few months now, has been acting spacy, having seizures, hind end weakness, and sleeping a lot. Her weight is great, coat condition is beautiful (going into summer here) and she, otherwise, seems normal. She will only eat beef - they have tried all meats as well as kibble, baby food, etc. The people adopted her from the ferret society here as the ferret was involved in a car accident and was unclaimed. They have had her for a year and has been showing these signs for the past few months. Not knowing what to do during the seizures, they applied honey to her gums and that seened to pull her out of the seizures. That is no longer working. The vet she is seeing (that will be treating her) has her currently on Pred which has gotten her to be more active and semi-control her seizures. I am working on getting his name as well as other information. All I know at the moment is that he worked quite a bit on ferrets in the UK. What they need to know: How do they approach this? Do a partial pancriatic removal? Remove only the neoplasms? What type of meds does she need to be on? How long? What would the estimated life be of the ferret - after surgery or if no surgery (only meds)? What should the ferret be eating to maintaine her blood sugar level? Remeber there is NO Nutri-Cal or Nutri-Stat here - only a lower quality product like Ferret-Vite, called Nutri-Pet. What can the owner expect out of the surgery? Should they also check the adrenal glands? Any and all help would be wonderful. The womans name is Susan Belcher and can be reached at rosevean@hotmail.com. If i may request that I be cc'ed on as much as possible, I would appriciate it. I am writing an article on the incident and would need as much info onm this case as I can get ahold of - Sue has asked me for my assistance and agreed I can forward her information. Ta! (Thanks!) Amy Flemming Flemming Farms Perth, Western Australia 2. Subject: Bridgett and Buttercup, chemotherapy From: Clare Sebok Date sent: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 15:45:04 -0400 (EDT) Hello everyone. I'm sorry it's been so long since I've posted. My father has been very ill, and Bill and I have spent almost every weekend for the past three months going to NJ to help take care of him. Now I'm waiting for Bill to take me to the train station to go back to NJ for the second time this week, this time to visit my aunt, who's in intensive care after emergency surgery to remove blood from her brain. I hope I'll get my old life back again some day. Fortunately, the ferrets are doing well. Buttercup and Bridgett got Lupron shots three weeks ago. Both have some mild symptoms of adrenal recurrence. Soon we should start seeing new hair growth. Someone asked recently about chemotherapy. I don't have the list in front of me now, but I hope the person who posted will e-mail me with any questions--our Ben went through 6 months of chemotherapy in 1997 and our friends have a ferret who had been on chemo for more than a year, so I have quite a bit of knowledge about it. It's important to monitor the ferret's blood cell counts through CBCs. Some of the chemo drugs suppress the bone marrow, and the counts can get dangerously low. The side effects seem to be more severe from the injectable drugs than the oral ones. If you feel your ferret is suffering too much from side effects, you might want to talk to your vet about just using the less-powerful drugs, such as l-asparaginase and methotrexate, rather than the "big guns" like vincristine and adriamycin. Clare 3. Subject: Daffy has Adrenal disease and an alien on his Liver!!! From: "Mary Tremblay" Date sent Sun, 24 Oct 1999 23:10:06 -0400 Daffy is about eight years old, he had adrenal surgery a year ago, and is doing fine. Except at the time of surgery the Vets noticed what they described as an "Alien" liver which they did not disturb. They tried to contact a Vet in the area with more experience, but got no response. He has been fine, except seven months ago he developed a bacterial infection which responsed well to amoxicillin. Now again he has the same infection. Symptoms are diareah with a gasy smell. One other symptom may be he has become agressive towards our 14 lb cat, who is the "Queen of the House", luckily she is very tolerant. We do have 2 indoor cats and 5 other ferrets. Any ideas as to what the " alien" on his liver is? 4. Subject: reply to Lisa Reynolds: FAIML; October 21, 1999 From: Sue Davenport Date sent: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 09:14:55 -0400 Hi Lisa I am new to the ferret world (I have my stepson's three while he is at college) but in doing some research because one of them has insulinoma, I emailed and spoke to "The New Rainbow Bridge", a ferret shelter which sells some apparently very effective herbal remedies and supplements for ferret illnesses. In one of these conversations, the man who runs the ferret shelter, Steve, told me that ferrets can develop a tolerance for prednasone that renders it ineffective; this normally takes about one year. His shelter uses Dexemethasone, also a steroid, in place of it. I have no idea if this is true - just passing it along to you. My vet's attitude is, if it ain't broke don't fix it....if the Pred works, don't change meds now. Steve uses injectable Dex; but it is available in pill form and my vet thought it could be made up into a paste or liquid too. Steve's wife is the ferret medical expert. Go to this website: www.newrainbowbridge.com and you can email or call them. It is quite possible they have heard of this condition before and will have some suggestions on supplements or treatments to ease it. Best of luck, Lisa. 5. Subject: herbal medication with adrenal disease / AAE From: Robert Dejournett Date sent: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:12:54 -0500 (CDT) Hi all. I've spent the better part of today scrambling to find help for my Daisy. She has had two surguries for adrenal disease and has shown hair loss in the posteral dorsal area, tail, and head. She has just recently shown vulva swelling with some discharge, looking like white blood cells, a whitish goo. She is skinny, losing weight, but still is mobile. She is 5 years old. The previous two surguries have not made a dent in her condition, the last one was about 2-3 mo ago for removal of most of the R adrenal. I have found Lupron, a GnRH agonist, as well as other GnRH agonists (there are many) are good candidates for treatment of this disease. In addition, I found this to be clinically similiar to PMS, and Endometriosis, which is a condition in which, well, i'm not good at these explainations so I will post a snipit of what I found (at http://my.webmd.com) Q: How does endometriosis occur? A: The endometrium consists of glands and connective tissue that line the uterus. Each month, the endometrium engorges with blood. If a woman does not get pregnant, the blood and some tissue shed. The result is a menstrual period. Endometriosis occurs when some of the endometrial tissue that normally lines the uterus develops outside the uterus. This displaced tissue continues to function like the endometrium, engorging with blood monthly. Instead of shedding through regular channels, however, the blood and tissue accumulate and may form fibrous adhesions that may lead to symptoms and complications, such as infertility. Anyway, back to the story. So I searched for herb therapies that treated symptoms of these two diseases; with particular emphasis on hormonal balance. From what I understand of the GnRH, LH/FSH, Estrogen, T cycle, inhibition of GnRH receptor will block this cascade. Anything that antagonizes this receptor can be potentially useful in treatment. Likewise for anything that lowers estrogen levels. So what I want to know is has anyone had effective treatment of adrenal disease with herbal medication? >From my searchs, I have found the following can be potentially useful. (big disclaimer, I have no idea what these will do and don't recommend using them. For all I know they could kill your ferret). 1. Black Cohosh (Cimicifuga Racemosa) 2. Shi Quan Da Bu Tang (SQT) 3. Dong Quoi (Angelica Sinesis) 4. Vitex or Chasteberry (Vitex Agnus-castus) Most of these were found at drkoop.com. From what I can find on literature, Cimicifuga racemosa is used to relieve hot flashes. It was found to have the following three different chemicals which did three different things: Not ligants for estrogen receptor (ER), but supressed LH release after chronic treatment, ligants for ER, no effect on LH release, ligants for ER and effect on LH release. (in published scientific literature) SQT was a mix of 10 chinese herbs which had a variety of effects, all to help cancer patients. Such effects included boosting the immune system, interleukin production, potentiating chemotheraputic agents, inhibit malignacy, ameliorate and/or perventing adverse toxicities of anticancer drugs. (in published scientific literature) Dong Quoi is an ingredient in SQT, and is supposed to regulate hormone production and reduce hot flashes. (Drkoop.com) Vitex was quoted as regulating progesterone production, similiar to Dong Quoi. There is a caution not to use this if pregnant (usually not a problem with fuzzies). So, any ideas about real alternatives to GnRH agonists? Surgury isn't really an option for me, and frankly I can not afford Lupron, in theraputic doses (2mg every 4 mo, $180). I'm investigating wiether I can get it for humans and tailor the dose or not (since it might be considerably cheaper). In addition I am going to start her on kitten milk replacement; it has lots of fat and protein and high vitamins and nutrients, because of her muscle loss and fat loss. I am very concerned for her because she keeps getting worse, however my options are rather limited. Thanks for any advice, hope this helps someone. I intend to start the herb therapy tomorrow. Rob -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Robert Dejournett rdej@gsbs3.gs.uth.tmc.edu Graduate Student Graduate School of Biomedical Science University of Texas Houston ------------------- End of FAIML #345 ---------------------