From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 2:09 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml Subject: FAIML #348; Nov. 1, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #348; Nov. 1, 1999 1. Query about Ferris 2. On the fence... @->->- 3. pediapred vs biopsies 4. Oliver- cystic adrenal lesion? 5. Molly's insulinoma 6. Melatonin? 7. Dr. Weiss and Video 8. About Dr. Weiss The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Query about Ferris From: randolph gardner ->- From: "Jadesun" Date sent: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 17:40:04 -0400 Hi all ;o) I haven't posted in a long, long while. It's Jade :o( What a slow down, I've seen in him lately. He sleeps sooo much. I let him out and he chooses is hidey hole for the evening and sleeps. Waking up for some occasional TLC, maybe a bite, and then back sleep :o( He seems to eat and drink fine, his bowels seem fine. He also has adrenals (I believe in the somewhat early stages.) Jade has been thru 2 surgeries already, a splenectomy in the fall of '97 and a blockage in the spring of '99. Jade will be 7 in April, 2000. I wish sooo much to have Jade and Daisy with me come Jan 1, 2000. It's really important to me, what a blessing that would be :o) But in my honest opinion, I'm not so sure that Jade will be with me then. If he needs to go for his adrenal surgery, do you think at 6.5 years (after having 2 surgeries already)that he will pull through? Should I put him through yet another surgery? It's not an economic issue at all, it's a quality of life issue. I don't know if I am looking for a little advice or moral support. A part of me is saying, "this time I have to let him go", but the other part of me is saying "Jader has always been a fighter, stubborn as the day is long). Dai Mai will be 7 in August, 2000 and the rate she is going, she will make it to 4000 :o) Bless her little soul :o) It was a little over a year ago today that I had put a (Countdown til 2000 Counter) on my site, something tells me that I am counting down to something far worse than just Y2K. I just want to make the right decision, so that I can be at peace with myself knowing it was the right one. Thanks for listening :o) Jadesun, Jade Elaine Mr.MeFirst & Daisy Mai Taken Forever A Whisper to a Scream http://www3.nbnet.nb.ca/jadesun @->->- 3. pediapred vs biopsies From: "meagan quinn" Date sent: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 00:31:14 EST Hi everyone: i have a quick but mabye not so easy answer. My vet, dr. luckow, is very ferret knowledgable and has asked me to pose this question to you. Keera has what are either enlarged lymphnodes or fat deposits in her neck. I would like to biopsy and see what he gets but b/c she is on Pediapred (.5ml /day and attempting to wean) he wonders if the biospy might give false results. I see his reasoning (pred. effects the tumors) adn he wants to knwo if it is worth doing the biopsy. any ideas would be great. I felt this was the best forum b/c there are so many with weird situations like this i felt i would get the best response. i hope to take her in Wed or Thurs AM. thanks! meg ps:the trip to the vet this week is b/c she has developed a "spare tire" when you look at her from behind. I dont' know if it si just winterFLAB on her or if the bump i felt was an enlarged lymph in her side. 4. Oliver- cystic adrenal lesion? From: "Emily Moon" Date sent: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 13:14:37 -0800 Hello everyone! Thank you so very much for your kind support and guidance with regards to Oliver and his adrenal surgery. I did end up getting a second opinion about Oliver (if you'll remember I was hesitant because of our vet's "defensiveness") and, without telling the second vet who our vet was, she recommended the vet we already see because Dr. D has the best technology and the most know-how in my area. So Oliver went through the surgery just fine. The next day I brought him home and he ate like a pig that first night :) Now, five days later, he's totally back to normal play and everything! Now we're just looking for his beautiful fur to grow in. The doctor said that Oliver's adrenal was quite strange. She said it was closely related to the vena cava and, if she hadn't done so many surgeries, she would have just sewn him up and not done a thing. She did end up opening the adrenal and out popped this odd shaped, hard "tumor." She showed me the "tumor" before it went off to the lab. It didn't have any real shape to it (sort of bumpy and the size of, let's say, three lentil beans). The lab test came back today and said it's a "cystic adrenal lesion," whatever that means....Dr. D has asked the lab to run more tests on it and add an addendum. Dr. D has never come into anything like this before. Has anyone out there had a ferret with a "cystic adrenal lesion" and found out what it was? This is apparently very strange and rare. I would love some help. Kindly, Emily and little Oliver 5. Molly's insulinoma From: "J. B." Date sent: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 20:54:03 -0500 First of all I have to say I think you are wonderful for rescuing Molly from such a horrid situation and taking care of her so well. It breaks my heart to read your story. I understand also how you feel about having to force feed her. My girl was diagnosed with squamous cell carcinoma in her mouth about 2 months ago, but there was a little over a weeks time where the vet knew something was horribly wrong but we did not know what it was. I too had to force medicines, water and food down her when she did not want to eat and I often cried, because I knew she hated it and I felt so bad for her and so helpless. Unfortunately I have never had a ferret with insulinoma so I know I am not any help as far as if she might recover from this. Have you talked to your vet about her condition and what sort of hope she has? I hope some people on this list can give you some good advice, sorry that I can't. I just wanted you to know that you and Molly are in my thoughts and just try to remember that you have provided well for her and I am sure she has had a happy life with you and knows she is loved. I wish you the best of luck! Hugs to all your fuzzies! Jenna 6. Melatonin? From: Glenn Johnson Date sent: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 18:39:50 -0700 Ferret Lovers Melatonin has been mentioned in several recent posts. Has someone on this list had long-term experience with melatonin and ferrets? I ask because I envision people believing that inexpensive help for their adrenal ferret may be as close as the corner drugstore. Melatonin manufacturers say that as little as a 100 mcg can affect a human and that makes a suggested 1 mg dose for a 2 lb. ferret sound massive. They also say, regarding human usage: " One concern is that high doses, while causing no immediate harm, could have unknown long-term effects. 'Even one milligram, the smallest commercially available dose, is at least three times higher than the normal amount in the body." And: " people with severe allergies or autoimmune diseases (melatonin could exacerbate such conditions by stimulating the immune system); people with immune-system cancers such as lymphoma or leukemia (for the same reason)". I would hate to see anyone with an otherwise healthy ferret mistakenly believe that melatonin might be an "easy way out". Anyone? Glenn and Chuki 7. Dr. Weiss and Video From: MiskaBC@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:40:41 EST Dr. Weiss sent me this email for the FAIML and FML. (He actually sent it a few days ago.) I'll be sending a separate email from me. All the best - Beth Date: 99-10-28 00:21:32 EDT From: CHARLES WEISS, DVM To: Miskabc@aol.com (Beth Comarow) Fellow Ferret Fans, First I'd like to say thanks for your love and interest in such a wonderful creature. It's so sad that they are so prone to so many illnesses. Fortunately, I feel we have made tremendous strides in the treatment of these terrible diseases over the last 5 years (some examples include medical treatment--lupron, casodex, arimidex, vena cava ligation and cryosurgery). I am now studying (using blood or tissue following routine surgery) whether genetics plays a direct role in the cause of adrenal tumors and insulinoma, and if so, ways to potentially prevent it. But I'd like to talk briefly about the video I have produced on common ferret diseases. I truly believe that this may become an extremely important reference for every ferret knowledgeable veterinarian interested in ferret surgery. It is more than an hour long and is packed with information on the diagnosis, clinical signs, pre- and post-op care and most importantly, video of actual cases of the most common ferret procedures, including one that I consider a breakthrough for ferret adrenal surgery---cryosurgery. This will make it possible for most vets to perform the tough right-sided adrenal surgery. This video was made to help veterinarians who treat ferrets, although it may still be of interest to ferret owners. Any medical textbook, medical convention or medical resource may seem expensive, but there is a lot of work that goes into it that most people don't realize. To share medical info and have it done professionally is very expensive and more time-consuming then I can adequately explain in a brief note. I will be lecturing at two vet conferences in January, and some of the same info that is on the tape will be presented, but the videotape is much better then the lectures for several reasons. The lecture has still slides (if a picture is worth 1000 words, a video is worth a million), and no veterinarian can take home a lecture and review it over and over again. Not to mention the fact that some of the proceeds will directly go into ferret research to make newer, better medical advances for the ferret. I hope you understand the time and effort I have put into searching for ferret cures and treatments- -it can't really be quantified or paid back if I tried to put a dollar amount on it--but I do not want to put a dollar amount on it because the work I do is so important to me. But after saying all of that, I do want people from the FAIML who would like the tape and can't afford it to be able to get it. So as a result I will give a discount to FAIML subscribers for a limited time. The video will be sold in November for $145 to any FAIML person who writes that on the order form. Please realize that I'm doing this to make the tape more affordable for the layperson. This is on the honor system; I'll trust that professionals and those who can afford the full price will pay it, and those who truly cannot can pay $145. Keep in mind that extra money goes back into finding better treatments for the ferrets! This will be available at this price for the month of November (if you write on the order form that you are an FAIML subscriber). Thanks again for caring for this wonderful species. Good Luck, Charlie Weiss, DVM [Note from Beth - Order forms can be printed out from Mike Janke's wonderful adrenal/insulinoma website at http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc. Be sure to use lower case letters - the URL is case sensitive. Hope I got that right.] MODERATOR'S NOTE: I just wanted to add that $195 for a medical video is really a very, very reasonable price, even more especially when one considers the caliber of vet who created it. (The organization I work for creates, among other things, cutting edge HIV/AIDS videos, which go for WAY more.) I haven't had the pleasure of utilizing Dr. Weiss as a vet in person, as he's on the other side of the continent, but I've spoken with him on the phone and I wholeheartedly agree with Beth (next post). In ferret medicine the learning curve is so high, with new discoveries coming in constant flow, that it's hard to keep up, and I so admire and appreciate vets who do. And I really, really admire and appreciate those who go to great lengths to further ferret medicine, despite having to rely on their own funds to do so, as is nearly always the case. I'm very excited about Dr. Weiss's video and hope many of you will tell your vets about it (for more info see Michael Janke's adrenal website, which address is in the intro paragraphs above). Lynn Mc. 8. Subject: About Dr. Weiss From: MiskaBC@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 21:40:49 EST Hello. My name is Beth and I'm biased. Dr. Weiss is our vet, and does not know that I'm writing this. I wanted to mention a couple of things, but had been out of town and then immersed in nursing for and worrying about a sick ferret. Over the last couple of months Dr. Weiss has talked about the best way to handle giving a discount to FMLers for his insulinoma/adrenal/cryo/exploratory/post-op/etc. video. I think he's been in a bind - he's a one person shop, since the video is not being done through the hospital (which he does not own). And it's been created for veterinarians and priced accordingly. If he had given an ongoing (and probably smaller) discount to FMLers, just the administrative work could have become unworkably cumbersome. Just one small example - people who would have ordered the tape at full price, found out later they could have qualified for the discount, written or faxed him for a refund, etc., which would warrant gong back through orders and more paperwork. We're not talking about a corporation here, just one man with a baby, toddler, wife, dog, extraordinarily busy practice (not just ferrets), ongoing research, articles to write, talks to give, phone calls from around the country, and a few hours of sleep each night. He has truly dedicated his life to trying to find answers to help ferrets, both in terms of his actions and the astonishing number of hours he puts in, month after month, year after year. Let me tell you a little story, and hope Dr. Weiss doesn't get mad for my telling tales out of school. A couple of months ago I called his office. I was told he was taken to the hospital, possibly for an emergency appendectomy. It turned out to be a kidney stone. (Ouch.) Pop quiz: (Dr. Weiss clients can't participate.) After spending the morning at the hospital in agony, and passing the stone, he (choose one): A) Went home to rest for a few days. B) Went home to rest for a day. C) Went home to rest for a few minutes. D) None of the above. The answer is D for Dumb quiz - of course he went right back to his 4-footed patients. I've almost never visited him without discussion about what he's working on for ferrets, or what he's hoping to find out, or what help may be coming, or how to get the word out to vets. On a personal level, he generously gives me his time via phone or email when I need clarification of medical points so I can help explain something on the AOL ferret medical board or in an email. He's taken the time to review and make suggestions for my Insulinoma Info Sheet. He's always so excited about possibilites, and there is a sense of urgency that we need to make strides now. (BTW, he doesn't just focus on medical and surgical treatment - I believe that acupuncture will soon be offered at the hospital for certain conditions.) He's generous, not only with time, but tries to help in other ways too. And despite an almost ferocious energy directed toward finding answers, doing surgeries, etc., he is remarkably gentle and soft-spoken with with his patients and their people. So - I'd like to put in my 3 1/2 cents that the new video is the culmination of years of work combined with the desire to help veterinarians and veterinary students who want to gain skills so they can better learn about and perform surgeries. It's a veterinary tool, and priced very well for such a resource. There are vets who still do not use iso as an anesthetic, who do not do right-sided or bilateral adrenalectomies (or who do unsuccessfully), who keep ferrets under anesthesia too long, who can't find right adrenal tumors, who still do tumor removal rather than partial pancreatectomies, and on an on. There are vets who are good surgeons but who are uncomfortable with right adrenal tumors or partials or excellent surgeons who want to see cryo surgery. There are new vets who are hungry to learn and established vets who have not had available to them up-to-date resources since ferret medicine is changing. The video may help any of them, and thus, any ferrets, our ferrets. I don't remember where I'm going with this, except I would jump on any bandwagon to honor him in any way, as Linda Iroff suggested. Last, I would like to thank Dick Bossart and Dr. Weiss - Dick for allowing our special Gabby to grace our lives with her gentle presence for 2 years, and to Dr. Weiss for fighting for her life and at the same time treating her with the utmost gentleness, like she was his ferret. For a tiny animal, she has left a huge space. I feel off-balance without her. All the best - Beth ---------------------- End of FAIML #348 ------------------------