From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, November 06, 1999 8:52 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml Subject: FAIML #349; Nov. 6, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #349; Nov. 6, 1999 The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Update on Molly 2. Bilateral recurrence questions 3. Insulomnia 4. Insulomnia 5. FAIML #348; Nov. 1, 1999 (Vanna) 6. What do you think? 7. Query about Ferreis 8. Query about Ferreis 9. Insulinomic ferrets becoming diabetic -possible explanation/ one finding 1. Update on Molly From: "Donald Dittman" Date sent: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 18:31:43 -0800 Molly and I would just like to thank everyone who took the time to give me helpful hints, suggestions, relate their own experiences and generally make me feel that there is still hope for this little girl. She's still very weak and very tired but I do see a little improvement. It did my spirits a world of good just to hear from others who also love their ferrets and don't think they are just disposable possessions that can be easily replaced. Thanks everyone. Laurel, Molly and the rest of the gang 2. Bilateral recurrence questions From: "Michaela Maurice" Date sent: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 23:32:03 -0000 Hi all, The girls will be having surgery this week, though the exact date is not set yet. I had a question (vets or owners) about bilateral recurrences. I was wondering what your experiences have been with recurrence of the right adrenal after a bilateral surgery. How often have you seen recurrences and within what space of time? Michaela Maurice College of Veterinary Medicine Ohio State University Class of 2002 ps. echos were normal - it was amazing to see their lil hearts beating away 'a mile a minute' heheh :) 3. Insulomnia From: EquineAmy@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 10:45:12 EST Can someone tell me what signs may mean my ferret has insulomnia. I have been doing a lot of reading on all sorts of subjects just for general knowledge - and I am one of those people who reads things and then suddenly I think I have it - you know what I mean? Anyway, my baby Connor has adrenal and now I pray my oldest isn't developing insolomnia. She sometimes stops and stares at something, just lasts for a second or two. My roomates all say that she has done this all her life, and I know she has (she is 3 now), but if that is all she does, does that mean she has it? she is otherwise completly healthy, well as far as I know. She is her normal mama's girl - and the boss of the rest. I will probably get a blood test anyway, just to be safe - but does it likely mean she has insulomnia? I hope not being that I am still in college and having one with adrenal has kind of made my ferret fund limited. Is surgery the only option for it? Might her staring be nothing? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Amy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Winnie (Mom! Pay attention to me. Mom, if you play with Chloe and Connor and ignore me, I'm going to have to poop in the corner....I mean it....look at me, i am the pretty one!) Chloe (Hi mommy, I am your good girl. Hey do you have any old socks I can play with? I promise not to eat them....I am gaining wait now - I don't need to eat socks anymore) Connor (What? Huh? Are you calling me...I can't hear...remember? sniff sniff...I smell cookies.....here I come...thud thud thud...ahhh...cookies....I am so cute) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 4. Insulomnia From: EquineAmy@aol.com Date sent: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 13:20:20 EST Hi everyone. I am not sure if my last post went thru or not, so I am going to recap a bit. Lately my oldest, Winnie (turned 3 in Sept) has been coughing a bit. She also has been stopping and starring at nothing. Being overly protective of my kids, I wanted to bring her to the vet just to hopefully rule out everything, but wasn't sure if it was necessary or not. Anyway, this mornign I called to see if they would just listen to her lungs to make sure all was clear - just to rule out an URI. Vet said she sounded great - and heart and everything else was good too. She also has gained weight - 3/4 lb since March. She is petite - and lean, but this totally ferret that she and my others have been on since september has giver her a gut :-) So, the vet was very happy that she looked so good. I told her everything that I noticed about her (I am very perceptive when it comes to my animals). Agreed the staring wasn't good, but may not be bad. I asked her to do blood work to check and if it turned out she had insulomnia, I felt the earlier we did somethign, the better. Now, this vet is not my ferret specialist and she knows that - but it is hard for me. I am in college and my home base varies = - she is my school vet and knows that my youngest is being treated for an adrenal - and is fine with that. She works with others to help pets rather that being against the fact that I see different vets (also that one is in Conn. and one in NJ). Anyway, she did full blood work that she sent out to the lab and we will get those on monday, but she did a glucose there and she was had a 87. That was without eating for at least 2 hours, possible all night. And if she did eat, the max that she could have eaten is like 5 peices of food ( that is about all that was gone since last night - and there are 4 in the cage). Anyway, worry level is 70, so that is good right? She is also getting insuline results along with the other blood work. So, if I am not mistaken, I am good for now. I hope! If all the rest of the results come back good, than I should be okay for now right? Just looking for reassurance I guess. I try to do all that I can, and I think $147 dollars later we are safe - just knowing her glucose was good I feel better but just wanted to know from others if there is anything else I need to know or watch for. Obvioulsly the staring (which may just be her calculating her next adventure) and seizures and stuff - By the way, we think her coughing is just from her shedding - Sorry so long and confusing, but if there is anythign else I should look for or do maybe even as a prevention (if there is such a thing in ferrets), please let me know. And if anyone thinks that all this info sounds good and that I don't need to really be concerned, please let me know that too. I have had too many upsets this week with all my animals (lost a 1.5 yr old pug due to congenital problems - very very sad), that I think I am just looking for reassurance that she is okay. Thanks so much Amy and her 3 fuzzies 5. FAIML #348; Nov. 1, 1999 (Vanna) From: "slac" Date sent: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 16:01:54 -0700 Hello all fuzzie lovers: Just recently, my ferret, Vanna, has started showing some hair loss and looks to have some weight loss as well. I took her to the vet two weeks ago. Everything looks fine according to the vet. She said it could possibly be cushings disease and that the only eway to cure it would be for vanna to have surgery and remove the adrenals if warranted. She also said it could be diabetes. She said we could run some blood tests and see what showed up. I elected to forgo the the blood test and said I would take Vanna home and see how she did for the next week. So far, she has not lost much more hair. Her appetite seems to be the same and she is still drinking water. She lovers her ferretone (little oink) and her energy level is still high. She keeps our dogs on the run! Then I started my search on how to go about helping her. I want to have as much information as possible. Knowledge is power - to help me make a wise decision and hopefully the correct one. I am scheduling her for surgery this week. I hope all goes well and she comes home to begin her life well. I will update you all as soon as I know. I appreciate all the help and information I have received. I thank you and Vanna thanks you too :-) 6. What do you think? From: "Amy Flemming" Date sent: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 17:55:47 +0800 Hey guys - got a question for you. A friend here in Australia has just taken in a jill (recently spayed - age unknown) and the ferret is suffering from hair loss. The ferret had been whole and had hair loss on her hind end and shoulders. When she was spayed the hair came back. The folks had a problem with fleas and treated her with Frontline and after a while her hair loss started up again. They were going to "clunk her over the head" so my friend took her in. So she turned to me for help on this situation. I am going to see the ferret tomorrow (Wednesday) morning and will know more (ie: age, thin skin, etc). She is not agressive, thin, or with swollen vulva. My friend is hoping it is maybe a Frontline alergic reaction, but as she had hair re-growth after spaying, I tend to think it is much more. Please note that only one ferret has been diagnosed with adrenal - and I believe that was sucessfully removed (the one tumor). Any other ideas besides adrenal? Thanks Amy Felmming Perth, Western Australia 7. Query about Ferreis From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 05:50:11 -0500 >1. Query about Ferris >From: randolph gardner >Dear Sirs and Madams, >My one and 1/2 year old ferret has recently started to display the hair >loss patterns for adrenal problems. She is also becoming very emaciated and her >skin is getting thinner. Other than a slight loss of appetite there do not seem to be >any behavior symptoms at this point. >My veterinarian was very helpful but the picture looks bleak. I still >have a few questions for other who have seen this disease. >*Will it lead to death? If so, how long? >*Is there anyone who performs the surgery for under $300 in Western > North Carolina? >*Is this mostly a cosmetic problem or will she waste away and die? > >I would appreciate any help. I am very concerned about her. > >Thank you. >weasely_girl@yahoo.com It's not only a cosmetic problem and could definitely lead to her death. How long that would take is hard to say. She could be symptomatic for a year or more and have no noticible problems other than the hair loss and perhaps a swollen vulva, but then go quickly downhill. Ferris is far too young to try to allow her to live with this disease. A seven year old ferret maybe, but not a 1.5 year old. I don't know of any vets in your area so can't help you in that area. If you can't afford the surgery, perhaps Lupron treatment will stave off the symptoms until you can save the money to do surgery? Of course, finding a vet in your area that does Lupron treatment at an affordable rate (if at all) might be more difficult than finding one that will do the surgery for less than $300. My vet charges $27 for a one-month Lupron shot, but they treat a LOT of ferrets. If your vet doesn't, Lupron could cost you as much (and even more over the long term) than surgery. By the way, in my experience, ferrets don't usually become emaciated with adrenal disease, but they sure LOOK a lot skinnier when their hair gets thinner. If I didn't have a scale, I would have bet my life that the various ferrets I've had with adrenal disease were losing weight. But the scale said differently. None ever varied from their pre-adrenal problem weight. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 8. Query about Ferris From: "Butts, Jennifer" Date sent: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 08:46:41 -0500 I have never had to deal with adrenal so I can not offer much advice as far as what the disease will do, though from what I can gather, if left untreated your ferret will die, the hairloss and such is a symptom of a greater problem. I am not sure if you have visited www.ferretcentral.com, but it is a great place to start gathering information on this and many other diseases. However, the reason I am writing is because my girl recently got cancer and the only place that could treat her was an animal hospital that belonged to the veterinary college at a university in my state. From talking with other people that brought their pets there, it was much cheaper than their vet. Since this hospital was the only place in the state that could do the treatment that I had done, I could not compare surgery costs, but I do know that the medicine I got there was 1/2 the price of the same stuff at my vet. The point of this horrible rambling (sorry I have not even had a whole cup of coffee yet) is that you might could check the universities in your state to see if they have a good veterinary school and doctors knowledgeable about ferrets. If surgery is necessary then they might could do it cheaper if cost is big concern for you. Unfortunately I do not know how much adrenal surgery normally costs; have you discussed it with your vet? Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but my thoughts are with you and your little one! Jenna 9. Insulinomic ferrets becoming diabetic -possible explanation/ one finding From: "Michaela Maurice" Date sent: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 00:39:36 -0000 Hi, Recently I've seen a few posts pass by about ferrets who had had surgery for insulinoma only to become diabetic post-surgically. Interestingly, one of the clinicians at school relayed a story to me about a ferret who presented for adrenal disease. Upon ultrasound, a mass was imaged in the pancreas. At surgery, no mass was visible but upon palpation, there was indeed a mass within and it was removed. An apparently healthy ferret with *normal* blood glucose suddenly became diabetic. The sample was sent for histopath and apparently, within this mass was *both* an insulinoma *and* a glucooma. Apparently the balance of these two physiologyically 'opposite' tumors left the ferret with a normal blood glucose and surgery apparently disturbed it. The ferret still has a high blood glucose despite therapy, though low enough it doesn't impact on the ferret's health. Just thought I'd share this since I know private hospitals don't often have the luxury of sending all samples to path labs. I'd be curious if anyone else has also seen glucomas in ferrets alone or in conjunction with insulinomas. Michaela Maurice College of Veterinary Medicine Ohio State University Class of 2002 ------------------------ End of FAIML #349 -----------------------------