From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Monday, November 08, 1999 1:44 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #350; Nov. 7, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #350; Nov. 7, 1999 1. A New subscriber: an introduction: 2. Help with 'hoff 3. Medication Post-Be-adrenalecomy Medication (vets?); Staring; Glucose Monitor; Thanks to Drs. Murray and Purcell 4. Stopping and staring 5. Staring 6. Stopping and Staring The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. A New subscriber: an introduction: From: "Michele" Date sent: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 23:52:20 -0500 Hello everyone, I am Michele and my ferret named Bandit was just diagnosed with insulinoma..He had three seizures in 10 days and when the first one happened I had no idea what was wrong..Bandit is around 6 years old and two weeks this past Sunday he all of a sudden was drooling and so out of it and unresponsive to any stimulus..I called the vet that I have been using for over two years and Left a message for him to call me..I know it was late after 2am but I thought Bandit was going to die..I didn't hear back from the vet and kept wondering what was wrong.. I did manage to force feed him so cool water and he seemed to come out if it after that. I then called the vet Monday and was told if he was okay he was.. I tried to say its not normal for a ferret to drool and be so lethargic and I finally was able to come on to have Bandit checked out..The vet took x-rays and said he had a prostate enlargement and that his adrenals looked enlarged..He suggested exploratory surgery and then told me his adrenals were enlarged the right more so then the left and then I asked what he did..He did nothing..He never removed anything and then told he Bandits heart was enlarged..and that I had to see his cardiologist and have an ultra sound of his heart taken once Bandit was recuperated from the surgery.I asked to check bandits glucose as I still was very scared after seeing him drool and be out of it..The vet told me he would and then said his glucose was 68 but insisted that was because he had not eaten since the night before..I then insisted he re-do it but he told me he did not want to..I took Bandit home and Bandit ran to his food dish and water bottle and ate and drank and really did appear to look fine..He then had another episode of drooling and being totally out of it but this time because I belong to the FML digest a subscriber named Steve Resnick offered to have his vet look at bandit..I called Steve and he came over and took Bandit to his vet..That was this past Monday and the vet took all kinds of tests and another glucose and the results didn't come back the next day, but then Bandit ,on Tuesday had another seizure and Steve took him back and the vet immediately started an iv drip of dextrose and by that time his blood test results had come back and Bandit was diagnosed as having insulinoma..He is on prednisone . 3 cc's every 12 hours for two weeks,then its . 4 cc's from there ..I am so angry at my vet for misdiagnosing bandit and making me almost lose him..I thank G-d for Steve and my new vet Dr. Michael Weiss here in Sewell,New Jersey which on a good day is over 50 minutes away from where I live..I don't care though,at least he knows what to look for in ferrets and helped Bandit survive his seizure..I now need to find out as much info on insulnoma as I can to make sure my Bandit is getting all the medical help he can.. I apologize for this long post but I really wanted you all to know what happened to me because of a bad vet and that there really still are nice people left in this world who love ferrets and are willing to offer their support and help to other ferret owners when things are very bad.. Thanks for letting me post and introduce myself as well as my bandit.. Michele:>) "Without love our life is... a ship without a rudder... like a body without a soul." 2. Help with 'hoff From: ANITABEERS@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 00:15:31 EST Hello! Well, it's so nice to be back! :-) Many of you probably have no idea who I am because I was in CA and had to post anonymously. Well, my hubby and I are originally from NM, and we've moved back, but it took us a while to get on line again. By the way, I lost many of my e-mail addresses since AOL only keeps them for a month and we didn't have our computer set up in time. So those of you that want to keep in touch from CA and elsewhere, please drop me an e-mail at my new address any time! :-) For those of you that may remember, several months ago I posted about our fert Silk that had lymphosarcoma. I'm saddened to report that we lost Silk at the end of August, but happy to report that it was wonderfully peaceful. He died quietly while we were holding him, and his quality of life was pretty good until just a few days before the end when he slept all the time. He was able to spend his last weeks with us in our new home, where we will use his precious ashes to plant a new flower in the yard this spring. We know he's happy at the bridge, and we're so glad he's up there playing with all the other fuzzy souls! :-) Now on to our new problem. I was very interested to see that Michaela was wondering about recurring bilateral adrenals, because I'm pretty sure we're having the same problem. Our 4 yr. old male fert Tasslehoff had a bilateral adrenalectomy about a year ago during which the left adrenal was completely removed and the right debulked. Now he has hair loss that started a few months ago. A vet reccommended we wait thru the shed season, but having had several experiences with adrenal, I'm pretty sure that the remaining right adrenal is acting up again. Hopefully it is just stress from the move, or something else, but I'm skeptical! What I would really appreciate is some info on Lupron and the scientific results because it seems that in the several months I've been off line some good news has come from this treatment. We're very reluctant to put Tasslehoff thru surgery again as he almost died the first time coming out with a temp of 98F. Not to mention his internal stitches somehow dissolved possibly due to an unknown infection, and he herniated only a few days after his adrenalectomy. He had to go right back in for a second surgery - our poor fluff! The experience has left him skittish around strangers, and we just don't want to stress him any more than needed. We also aren't sure if there are any vets in the Albuquerque area that will perform a right adrenalectomy. So, if I could just get a quick update on the Lupron, it might help me with my discussion with the vet, since I want to get Tasslehoff checked out again. Well, that's enough for now! I'm still getting back in the swing of things, so I'll try to partcipate more with questions I can answer. For now, good luck with all the fuzzy butts! :-) Anita Roe (finally free in NM!) 3. Medication Post-Be-adrenalecomy Medication (vets?); Staring; Glucose Monitor; Thanks to Drs. Murray and Purcell From: Lynn McIntosh Date sent: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 24:43:41 First I want to say thank you to Dr. Murray and Dr. Purcell for taking the time to answer questions on the list. It is great input to have and is comforting to know that experienced vets are present here. So, thank you. For vets and others: how do you monitor or test for what supplements may be needed after a bi-adrenalectomy (and, in this case, a vena cava ligation) i.e. prednisone and/or florinef? Do you go by symptoms or is there a blood test or series of tests that can be done? Also, what are the consequences if the correct amounts/types meds aren't given. And how important is it to get the dosages right on the money? Our Gadzook is doing pretty well on 1/4 tablet of florinef every other day. Our vet says if he needs it at all it would be better to give it to him every day? Do others agree? If he goes without florinef for three or four days I see signs of weakness, extra thrist, and he has vomited a couple times. We only saw that by trying to wean him off. He was on a small amount of prednisone post surgery but was weaned off that. If we continue to monitor symptomatically I'll try him every other day for a week then every day for a week and see which is better. I want him to have enough but I don't want to give him drugs unnecessarily and worry about giving him too much, too. So, anyway, how do others or vets decide what the correct dose is? Or if it is to be prednisone or florinef. We don't have a baseline cortisol test, by the way. As for stopping and staring, when our Claudette was weaving a bit I had a blood glucose done. It was low ninties. Our vet said that in the beginning stages of insulinoma symptoms can come and go. Fortunately for us Claudette had a bacterial infection which was causing weakness and a bit of staring, verified by blood tests pre- and post- medical treatment with antibiotics an. We're going to buy a Lifeline Fasttake glucose monitor for use with Wally. I selected it based on info I've compiled in a file containing posts when we discussed this more than a year ago. (If you'd like me to send the file let me know.) It does measure plasma (using whole blood though) but our vet says that's okay; we just need to calibrate the norms on the meter with the lab norms. It has an option of a shallow or deep lance (people have said the deep lance works best), reads down as low as 20, and allows for bringing the paw to the strip, rather than needing a droplet of blood. I'll let you all know how it works. Thank you! Lynn 4. Stopping and staring From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 22:41:43 -0500 >3. Insulomnia From: EquineAmy@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 10:45:12 EST >Can someone tell me what signs may mean my ferret has insulomnia. I have been >doing a lot of reading on all sorts of subjects just for general knowledge - and I am >one of those people who reads things and then suddenly I think I have it - >you know what I mean? Anyway, my baby Connor has adrenal and now I pray my >oldest isn't developing insolomnia. She sometimes stops and stares at something, >just lasts for a second or two. Three years old is definitely old enough to be developing an insulinoma, but just the fact that she stops and stares for a few seconds is not enough to say that she has. Ferrets tend to do this. For instance, if there's a slight noise somewhere they'll stop for second to try to determine where it's coming from. It may look like they're staring off into space, but they're probably not looking at anything, just listening. A simple fasting blood glucose test shoudl give you an idea if there's a problem developing. And I know what you mean about reading or hearing about a medical problem and then thinking you have it. :-) There's a word for that, but I can't think of what it is. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 5. Staring From: ALICEWDB@aol.com Date sent: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 15:26:09 EST In our experience, insulinoma produces more symptoms than staring. Farrah's hind leg weakness and fatigue were first symptoms, then staring and drooling. The vet got mixed results on blood tests and wasn't convinced until a biopsy. Partial removal of the pancreas 9 months ago eliminated symptoms and the need to purchase medication, additional vet examinations, and special food. In the long run, surgery was better for Farrah and cost efficient for me. If funding is a problem, perhaps the vet will spread payments over a few months. Alice 6. Stopping and Staring From: "slac" Date sent: Sun, 7 Nov 1999 11:02:09 -0700 Hello from Vanna and I! I was reading more on this stumper of an illness, and also noticed other wrtires have noted their fuzzies too stop and stare at nothing, lasting from a few miliseconds to a full few seconds. i have changed her bedding from cedar chips to pine shavings. Any suggestions/comments? she is still eating ans drinlikng what seems to be a normal amount. still loves her ferritone. i sometimes give her a little bit of egg in milk...very little. bowel movements are also normal appearing. will update next week. everyone take care and the best of luck to all other fuzzies out there....... --------------------- End of FAIML #350 -----------------------------