From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 2:12 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml Subject: FAIML #353; Nov. 15, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #353; Nov. 15, 1999 The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Need Vet on L.I. 2. Does Kato have the disease? 3. Weirdest Ferret in the World? 4. Ben's high sugar update 2! 5. Coenzyme Q 6. Thanks for infro on lupron, need ordering infro, intro to my furries. 7. Reply: What next? Insulinoma 8. Reply: What next? Insulinoma 9. adrenal recovery 10. Seizures? 1. Need Vet on L.I. From: FeritFran@aol.com Date sent: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 07:05:41 EST I often read all the posts, but I've never written. I am hoping that someone can give me a bit of assistance. I am having a devil of a time finding a Ferret knowledgable vet in Central Suffolk County, Long Island. If anyone can help..... please! Thanks Fran 2. Does Kato have the disease? From: XVDeathKnightVX@aol.com Date sent: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 18:28:49 EST Over the years, my ferret, Kato, who is 6 years old this October, has lost his hair once a year on his tail and on his back for a couple weeks, and then started to grow the hair back. Only this recent time, (it started at the beginning of October) Kato began to lose his hair. But this time it didn't stop. He lost all of the hair on his tail and back, and most of the hair on his stomach. I became worried. After some research, I figured that Kato might have the Adrenal disease problem. I haven't taken him to a vet yet, because the problem is getting better. (As usual.) He grew all of the hair on his tail back, and almost all of it on his body. (He's still working on it.) What should I do? Take him to the vet? Or since he seems fine again, wait until it happens again? Thanks. Brian & Kato 3. Weirdest Ferret in the World? From: "Eden Rain" Date sent: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 08:40:20 -0800 Hi all, Lemke has taken yet another inexplicable medical turn. After being diabetic since February, he has now reversed & gone back to being a traditional Insulinomic ferret! The change occured when he had bronchitis several weeks ago. One theory is that maybe it was a bacterial infection causing the Diabetes somehow all along & when we put him on the baytril (antibiotic)it cleared up, but he'd gone low & then come back up right before we started him on the baytril which could be a coincidence of our giving him too much insulin but makes me question the theory. Since the baytril he stayed low consistently for 2 weeks solid, until he stopped eating for a few days because the Fumes from having a floor refinished were distressing him at which point he went back up till we got him to eat. since then he's been low again. Right now we are not putting him on pred or any other Rx beyond the cypro that keeps him eating voraciously. when we did an actual blood test as opposed to a urine test he measured at 110 BGL so he's on the low end but not dangerously so. he does dip lower sometimes, we can tell by his behavior, but generally as long as he eats regularly he stays under control & he has more energy than he's had in a long long time - he played in the tube yesterday! The best side effect from his point of view is that we can now give him the occasional raisin - yes I know they're still not good for him, but he hadn't had them in so long & quality of life is important too... Very very confused & trying to remember how to care for an insulinomic ferret, Eden ______________________________________________ Eden Rain raghead@liripipe.com 4. Ben's high sugar update 2! From: "Karen O'Keefe" Date sent: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 22:45:24 -0000 Hi everyone, Just wanted to say that I took Ben back for his check up yesterday and the vet did a blood glucose test and well where it was just over 600 a month ago yesterday's reading was 300, I know that is still high but it has come down and not stayed at just over 600 or increased anymore ;o) Ben's vet said that she will leave putting him on Insulin and see if it comes down even more or if he gets worse in himself or develops ketones in his urine then she will do then. Also the fluid in Ben's abdomen has gone down a lot since coming off the preds and so the vet had a good feel of his abdomen yesterday and Ben's pancreas is swollen, no lumps or bumps just the whole of the pancreas is swollen, she does not know why that would be and if anyone has an idea we would love to hear it? So it is wait and see now if Ben's sugar comes down even more. Take care from Karen,Ben,Glyndwr,James,Cian,Kealan,Tia and Ella :o) *Love and missing my darling Billy so much* http://www.okeefe2.freeserve.co.uk/ 5. Coenzyme Q From: lynne wooldridge Date sent: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 10:40:40 -0600 I would like to put Dustie on CoQ to help with his circulation and immune functioning. Does anyone know what dosage to give? He weighs five pounds. He often has some mental confusion and I was thinking that this would help. Any other ideas? He is nine years old. Thanks! Lynne 6. Thanks for infro on lupron, need ordering infro, intro to my furries. From: MOMINFLITE@cs.com Date sent: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 17:25:14 EST Hi, I'm new at this, so please bear with me. Never thought I'd like ferrets till one day while shopping for fish. Instead "Pockets" hooked me. That was 6 years ago. About a Month after coming home, she had a seizure while I was holding her, many frantic phone calls later, I took her to the vet where she stayed overnight. When I brought her home, I was told If I could keep her alive for 24 hours she might live. She's epileptic. She's my fearless one. Next on the scene was Herbie. He was a feisty love I got at 6 mo. old. Never showed signs of anything wrong until about 2 wks before he died. He was Diabetic and died of complications at 3 yr/old. Then I was looking for a white Ferret, but I can't get just 1 at a time now. I got Katy and Spanky when they were 5 yrs old. Katy was a tap dancer. She'd hop around your feet to make you dance to keep from stepping on her. She had adrenal surgery at 7yrs and died a year later of adrenal disease. Next come the BAD BOYS, Sweetpea and Redman, at 6 mo. They're my little devils, into anything and everything. Katie introduced me to adrenal problems, I was scared when she started losing hair, but went frantic when she started having problems walking. Thankfully I had found a really good vet. Katie had surgery, but had a hard recovery, so when the symptoms returned a year later surgery wasn't an option. I said good- bye to her a yr ago. She was my foot warmer and heart snatcher. When my pockets started losing hair I took her to the vet right away. We had a hard time getting her blood glucose up, but she came thru great. That was a year ago. The beginning of this summer her fur started to thin, Spanky by this time had lost most of his back fur. But with the problems Pockets had the 1st time, and Spanky being 9, surgery wasn't an option. I thought I was going to just have to watch them lose their zest and prepare my good-byes. Then I found your site one day and learned about Lupron. The next day I called my vet, she had just gotten some in, told me to bring them in. Today they got their 2nd shots and are improving. She has gained weight and getting her fur back, Ties her fearless self again and isn't hiding all the time. He's also getting his fur back. He also has some breathing problems and a heart murmur though. I need to find where my vet can get the 4 month dosage of Lupron and how this works in comparison to the monthly shots. We sometimes get icey roads and I dont want to miss any shots. Sorry for this being so long, THANKS for being there for my current and future furries (I know I cant stop at 4) Again, Many thanks, Mom, Pockets, Spanky, Sweetpea, Redman. MODERATOR'S NOTE: Just so she doesn't get flooded with e-mails of Michael Janke's website, I have sent her the url. Lynn Mc. 7. Reply: What next? From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 10:15:23 -0500 >4. What next? Insulinoma >From: "Leslie Sturla" >doing well. But I do have some Questions: -I'm taking Sam in for another blood >test to monitor his progress. Before I go, are there any other tests I should be >requesting? -Is blood sugar the only thing I need to worry about since I've >passed on the surgery? Blood glucose definitely. I'm sure your vet will recommend when a complete blood panel is necessary. >-If his symptoms worsen, do I just up the dosage? Are there >alternatives? Some people wrote about weaning their ferrets off prednesone--is >there some danger in continuing it's use? When does it stop being helpful? -How >will I know when the tumor begins to invade other parts of his body? No dosage change without your vets approval! Also, you said you're giving him 1ml pediapred. Assuming pediapred is the same concentration everywhere (5mg/5ml), you're near the maximum dosage of 2.5mg/kg. That's also assuming Sam is near 1kg (2.2lbs). Being a male, he's probably a bit bigger than that so you'd have some room for an increase, but not much. When pred is no longer effective, diazoxide (Proglycem) is the next step. Using diazoxide often allows you to lower the pred dosage. It's pretty expensive stuff so you probably don't want to use it until it becomes necessary. As for long term usage of pred... ferrets seem to tolerate it well, though they do tend to get fat on it. My Beasley has been on pred (currently 0.4ml twice a day) for 1.5 years and is doing pretty good. As for weaning him off of it... well, lots of people (me included) believe that any drug is not great for the body in the long term, so would love to have their ferrets not need drugs. Unfortunately, there isn't much alternative if the ferret's blood glucose is low and surgery is not an option. I can't tell you when or if the tumors in his pancreas will progress to other parts of his body. Most likely, the eventual inability to maintain his blood glucose will be the cause of his demise, not tumors spreading to other parts of his body. I hope this doesn't sound too cold because it's not meant that way. And like you, I'm not a vet or vet tech, so consider the above advice as coming from a layman like yourself. Always consult with your vet. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 8. Reply: What next? Insulinoma From: Sue Davenport Date sent: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 12:54:41 -0500 Hi Leslie I have my stepson's three ferrets (he is at college now) and one suffers from Insulinoma. I will tell you my experiences and what I do but I am not an expert, suggest to you that you visit/email the New Rainbow Bridge website: they are really experts, and have an herbal extract which I am using, which may serve to lengthen the life of Insulinoma ferrets. I am doing well right now with this ferret, and will give you my input for what it is worth. I bought the New Rainbow Bridge ferret supplement as well and I include a good jot of that in a soup I make which on good days, she eats herself, and on days I feel she is not eating enough, I feed her with a syringe, holding her in a towell -- she actually seems to enjoy this, licking her chops and reaching for the next serving. I have been told that my soup should contain cat not dog food because of taurine, but she likes it better this way (eats more), and since she also eats some dry Hills CD (cat)diet and the soup contains the ferret supplement, I have stuck with it. She has gained weight, coat looks great, she sleeps alot but does play, and is most affectionate. She has less trembling and stronger hind quarters. I am operating on the premise that applies to people with low blood sugar; small meals frequently during the day. Before I give you the recipe, let me also tell you that my vet said, treat the symptoms of this illness. What this means is, if she's not eating get her to eat (the soup); if the stool is watery, administer anti-diarrheal. Treat the symptoms. For the watery stool, with his approval, I use about a quarter of a cc of Kaopectate, in a few hours if no change, same dose again. I also make the soup more watery so she is getting good fluid intake. I may also add a little extra corn syrup for an added suger boost. Actually, she likes it thin soupy not thick. I use: Iams canned beef and rice dog food (1/3 can) one cup Proplan (any good quality) lamb and rice dried dog food about two teaspoons molasses about two teaspoons cornsyrup One tablespoon of the ferret supplement from New Rainbow Bridge 1-2 teaspoons of wheat germ oil (from health food store) Hot water to make a thin paste and then blend it really smooth. I keep it in the fridge, and heat it up with a little more water as needed. She eats it out of a saucer, or the syringe as I said. When I can, I do it 3-4 times a day, plus leave some in a saucer alongside her CD dried food. and water. I also give her prednasone. New Rainbow Bridge site reports that ferrets get immune to this and recommend a substance called Dex (that's an abbreviation); they inject it but my vet said you could get it made up into fish paste (which is how I get the pred, through the drugstore, the Medicine Shoppe). He also said, if it ain't broke don't fix it...she is doing well now and why change the meds at this point. Lastly, my ferret has had the surgery But I was told by people who should know that this only buys them a year, usually. So, I will try to fight back with the medicine, and careful nutrition, and the herbal treatment too. Suggest you find an area vet with good ferret expertise; the mailing list or perhaps the New Rainbow Bridge people may keep a listing. Good luck Sue 9. adrenal recovery From: GRFerrets@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 12:31:14 EST Hi, >From what I understand (that my vet has said), if you can see the adrenal gland, it's bigger than it should be and it should be removed. Did your vet take out the right (or as much as he could)? Kim GRFerrets@aol.com In a message dated 11/14/99 2:49:17 AM, faiml@uswest.net writes: >When doing the surgery, the right adrenal was barely palpable >and nothing noted on the left side. He also checked for any retained ovarian >tissue and could find none. Have any of you had this experience? Please reply >to me >at PKgreek@excite.com Thanks all. Paula and the Fuzzy Mafia 10. Seizures? From: Linda Iroff Date sent: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 13:14:03 -0500 Dale Yes ferrets dream just like most mammals. Sometimes they will twitch and squeak, and sound like they are having a nightmare. Some ferrets seem to do it more often than others. I doubt if it is anything to be worried about. Linda Iroff Oberlin OH ------------------------ End of FAIML #353 -----------------------