From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, November 27, 1999 1:31 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #356; Nov. 26, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #356; Nov. 26, 1999 1. Dustie - ECE 2. Introduction 3. Thank you for all of the kind words 4. update on Magoo and Sourie ( 5. Please Post The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Dustie - ECE From: lynne wooldridge Date sent: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 21:21:16 -0600 I went to a new ferret club meeting here --a picnic for non-ece ferrets and their "owners". I took Dustie and within 24 hours he had ece. It has been 12 days now and he has been under the vet's care since that day. He had iv fluids initially as a precaution and several injections initially (penicillin and baytril) and then several follow up injections of penicillin. He takes pred (one half cc twice a day)for insulinoma and baytril (.4 cc twice a day) for chronic bladder problems, and he is continuing to take those medications. I am feeding him only chicken babyfood (often adding a little pedialyte). I sneak his medication in the food. Also, I am giving him one half cc of carafate in about two teaspoons of Ensure (warmed a little). He is taking 1/16th of a pepto tablet twice a day. He is still having diarrhea. I thought that we were finished with "green" but he had some green colored stool yesterday. Mostly it is that jelly consistency with "seed texture". Does this mean he is getting no nutrition or just some? He has lost more than a pound (down from five pounds to less than four). I am so mad at myself for exposing him to this stuff. I am so worried about him. He is nine years old and has adrenal disease and insulinoma (in remission). His labwork has come back normal (since Wednesday). He is eating, but often has a bit of nausea and every stool is abnormal. He was doing better than this and then suddenly he seemed to be having more abnormal stools and the nausea. His energy level varies between good and flat out exhausted. Any ideas or suggestions? Lynne 2. Introduction From: JLGloer@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 18:15:19 EST Hello everyone! I thought I would write and introduce myself and how I came to join this wonderful group. I have 2 wonderful fuzzies of my own. The one started signs of lost hair on her tail just over 1 year ago and she is now just under 4 years old. My normal vet does not have much experience with ferrets (they are great with the girls and up until a couple weeks ago, there were no really experienced ferret vets in town), but suspected the adrenal tumor right away. He tried to do an ultrasound and thought he noticed something on the left side right by the adrenal gland. Problem was, she would not hold still long enough to really get a good look. From there, I was recommended to the most experienced vet in town with adrenal gland surgeries. I went to this vet and even though Chayse had all the signs except the swollen vulva, the vet swore it was something else. We switched foods to try and get weight back on her (she went from 1.8 Ilbs to 1 Ilb) and ran a bunch of blood tests. Finally after six months I mentioned the Tennessee panel to the vet, which he had never heard of. It came back saying adrenal gland tumor. We proceeded with surgery as all the information at the time suggested. Chayse did well until about 2 months later the hair growth stop and she never did put on any weight. She also has occasional bouts with the diarrhea. As previously mentioned by another member in Toledo, there is now a new vet in Toledo originally from Tennessee. She is wonderful and Chayse will be going to see her in about another week to run another Tennessee panel to see how her counts are looking. The vet is convinced there is still tumor problems, possibly with the right gland. Chayse is still humping everything, spot peeing, has very little to no muscle tone in the back end, and is still much more aggressive than before, but besides that she acts just fine. My other fuzzy is Baby, who is just under 3 years old. Up until about one month ago, she was healthy as a horse except for a couple good reactions to the vaccinations. About a month ago, I started noticing her go flat on the floor right in the middle of running. She would stay that way for over a minute. Then Baby started dissappearing for long periods of time. I finally started checking on her and she was under a bed, flat on the floor, spacey, and would not respond when I called her. I then noticed she acted dizzy one evening and tried some ferretvite (it has molasses in it) and within 15 minutes she was back to normal. I took her for a fasting blood sugar that came back at 43 with only a 4 1/2 hour fast. This is when I learned about this wonderful vet, Dr. Orozso (sp?) in Toledo. The next fasting blood sugar of less that 4 hours was 20. It was time to do some more bloodwork. The vet believes it is actually adrenal gland causing the problems, but we should find out any day now. The vet ran a glucose and Tennesse panel to determine how to proceed with treatment. For now, Baby is on .02 of the prednisone and has been acting much better. She still has her disappearing moments, but overall a 100% difference. The vet also believes her diet of Iams kitten food is the best to continue. It's amazing how you don't notice how big the changes were until you correct the problems. Keep a close eye on those fuzzies! I thought I was being an over reactive mother. I have only been reading these messages for about a week, but I have already learned a lot. I want to thank everyone for this wonderful e-mail group. I will keep you updated on the my 2 girls and any suggestions or tips would be greatly appreciated. Sorry to have rattled on so long. 3. Thank you for all of the kind words From: Mary Oyer Date sent: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 21:01:17 -0600 I would like to take a moment to thank each of you who sent messages about our little Rosie. The other ferrets are still missing her, as are we. We've decided to start two of our other ferrets on Lupron. They are each 4-1/2 years old and they both have had two adrenal surgeries before. Holly had surgery 2-1/2 years ago and again a year and a half ago. Bandit had his surgery the same time Holly had her second surgery. The vet took one adrenal and a partial on the other one at the same time. Chryssie has recovered well from her adrenal surgery. She was operated on late this past summer. Her pathology came back malignant, but she is doing really well right now. She has re-grown all of her hair and she isn't nearly as itchy and she seems to be mellowing back to her usual self. We'll try to let everybody know how Bandit and Holly do with the Lupron. Thanks again for all of the kind words. Mary 4. update on Magoo and Sourie ( From: OutThink@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 22:02:35 EST I'm not sure if anyone remembers my questions over a year ago (May 1998) on insulinoma, etc. for Magoo our "old man" rescue. Since starting him on the insulinoma soup (following the surgical removal of the insulinomas in July 1998) he has not had a relapse of the seisures, etc. All the reading I have done lately on Chrominum Picolinate leads me to believe that is the ingriedent that is helping to control it. Not only is he alive and well, he still dances and plays with the others. 3 year old Sourie's , our little addtion in February, adrenal tumor turned out to be on both sides and had gone so long (her former owner was told by her vet that it was Cushings Disease) it couldn't be totally removed. We kept her on Duck Soup (with Timmy's Tonic and Tumor Begon) but by the second week of August she was so swollen with fluids she could no longer walk. She "swam" across the floor by pushing herself with her legs the way a seal would. Sourie was in no pain and was actually enjoying her life and being with the other ferrets so we didn't put her to sleep. In August we were told to expect her to die in 1 - 2 weeks and we decided to make her last days as special as we could. At this point I felt trying "alternative meds" like herbs was worth the risk. I added Pao DArco and CoEnzyme Q10 to her duck soup. I had been reading about the Pao DArco and thought it was worth a try. I also began letting her have all the craisens she wanted. This was a treat to make her last days special and on the other side I hoped if there was a blockage to her kidneys, etc. the acetic acid in the cranberry's would dissolve it. It is now almost December and I took her back to the Vet just to let him see her. He couldn't believe she was still alive. And not just alive. The swelling is almost gone except for the tumor in her abdomen can still be felt. Sourie is still rather thin furred (not quite naked) but she is playing and dancing and getting into things again. I know there are a lot of dissenting opinions on the use of vitamins and herbs to "cure" illnesses but I felt this was still worth sharing. I took the risk with Sourie and it has prolonged her life and improved the quality of it. Roberta 5. Please Post Date sent: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:00:05 -0800 From: Celeste Jacob Hello Lynn and FAIMLer's! Its been a while since I've written/participated with the list. I have been looking for another job, interviewing like crazy, and training someone here at my present job (to take my place eventually), and there's been no time for much of anything. But just wanted to check in and say hi, give some input, and a quick update on my boys. Re Jenna's post re "Diet for cancer" >So weighing it all, I think the Eukanuba is better than the Hill's. Especially considering the fact that Hill's only comes in the very large cans and goes bad after three days of opening it (which there is no way she can eat that much!) . . . >So the point of this rambling is, does anyone have any experience, thoughts, suggestions about these or other diets. I read about Bob's chicken gravy, which sounded great as well, but if I can help it I would much rather buy something in a can (dealing with a whole ground chicken doesn't sound appetizing!) Not only is it disgusting, but as a vegetarian and animal rights supporter, I cannot/WILL NOT bring the dead body of a tortured animal in my home and proceed to grind it up in a food processor! ;( Its bad enough I have to tolerate feeding them regular food with that type of stuff in it, but I know I *must* ,and do, for their survival. Anyway, when my Ferris was REALLY sick this summer with some bad infections, and losing weight like crazy, the vet gave me this Eukanuba Maximum Calorie in small cans. Miraculously, he loves it, and recovered on it very well (along with antibiotics, etc.), and has been the best thing I've ever done for him! He still eats it each day, but much less than when he was sick because he's gotten so fat. :o> It is rich in fat and protein, and now I even feed it to Dusty, as it is much better for him than straight baby food. And its more palatable than the AD. Which brings me to his update . . . He was diagnosed with Insulinoma in May '98. Since then, he's had 2 pancreatic surgeries, his left adrenal removed, and battled consistently low blood sugar. We can't believe he's still with us! The sad news is that the prolonged use of Prednisone has wasted his muscles to the point that his bones stick out of paper-thin skin, and he can walk, but not without dragging his hind end and stopping constantly to rest. He's lost most of his fur, so that makes him look even worse. I've recently tried - FOR THE 3RD TIME - to put him on Proglycem so I can back off the Pred, but he does not respond to it at all! :( So there's not much I can do but watch him slowly waste away; I really don't know what else to do. He seems tired often, but clearly is in no pain, and he gets up at regular intervals during the day and evening to play with Ferris, who he loves!!, so I wouldn't dream of helping him to the Bridge before he's ready to go -- and I know he's not yet. Mother's instinct will tell me when its time. Well, thanks for listening, and I encourage any of you who's babies need protein, to try this Eukanuba diet. Its great stuff! Take care, and in case I don't get the chance to write in for awhile, I hope you, your family, and fur-babies have a safe, happy, warm and wonderful holiday season. Celeste, Dusty & Ferris (The Dooks of Hazard) :o> ---------------------- End of FAIML #356 --------------------