From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 1:55 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #358; Nov. 30, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #358; Nov. 30, 1999 1. Suggestions for Jasmine? (Adrenal scratching) 2. Vanna Update 3. join e-mail list 4. Buzz - thickened colon - Urgent 5. Reply: Buzz - thickened colon 6. Buzz - a reply:) 7. Eukanuba 8. supplement info post 9. Color Fur The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Suggestions for Jasmine? (Adrenal scratching) From: LDarkes@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:32:23 EST Hello all, Jasmine's itchiness related to her adrenal disease seems to be getting much worse. Today, she really scratched herself up -- her little body is just covered with scratch marks (head, neck, back, sides -- just all over). Does any one have any suggestions that would give her some relief?? She really looks miserable. I tried putting a small amount of Curel lotion on the worst spots, but I don't think it helped much. We just started her on Casodex at the beginning of this month, as the lupron didn't seem to be helping her. Anyone know if this could be causing the increase in symptoms? Thanks for any help you can give, Lucie @-"-@ (=^ ' ^ =) o00 -\o/- 00o 2. Vanna Update From: "slac" Date sent: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:30:54 -0700 my vanna is doing great as of now. her has grown back and she has gained weight. i have done nothing out of the normal, except move her cage from where it used to be. i took her to the vet again, and everything seem to be okay. no blood test though. as my vet originally diagnosed her with cushings disease, she was pleased with vanna. i have given her all the info from this site and she seems to think things are okay for now, given the vast amount of info. vanna's hair has all come back in (it was somewhat sparse on her head and tail) but the rest of her has not changed. she is still active, eating/drinking, still haas ferretone daily and no more cedar chips/pine chips. her hair color has changed for the darker (as she is a cream) and meets me every morning too get her ferretone. she seems to be the same at her activity levels. still gives the dogs and cat a run for their money! her bowel movements are the same and she drinks the same amount of water. therefore, i think i was stresssing her out with her location. i am still relucant to put her through surgery if un-needed. so for now, things seem to be okay :-) any suggestions would be welcome. Love Lisa and Vanna 3. join e-mail list From: Sandra Barcelona Date sent: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:41:45 -0600 Hello, I have been searching for information regarding adrenal disease in ferrets. Although I have found a great deal of useful information regarding this topic, I was hoping to add a personal touch to my collection by asking for some opinions. My female ferret Luella is nearly 7 years old and is exhibiting hair loss in a pattern consistent with an adrenal tumor. I am undecided on whether or not to have her undergo exploratory surgery and adrenalectomy. First of all, from what I've gathered, it seems the most sensitive and specific way to diagnose this is exploratory surgery. With her history of being spayed at a young age (few months at most) and her hair ongoing hair loss spreading from her tail area up her trunk, I think her diagnosis can be made by history and exam alone. I am hesitant to spend a lot of money on labwork when the diagnosis seems fairly certain. Any thoughts on this? Second, I realize she is an older ferret. Aside from the obvious cosmetic effects of these tumors, is there any long term discomfort from this tumor? It is my understanding ferrets can live for a 2 or even 3 years with these tumors. This may be longer than her natural lifespan anyway. Does anyone have any information or personal stories regarding ferrets who have been "let go" with these tumors? Next, there seems to be a rather high mortality rate after surgery in older ferrets.(10-12%) I read that it has been hypothesized that this may be secondary to cortisol insufficiency in cases in which both adrenals were treated. Does anyone know of anyone supplying oral prednisone or other steroid supplement post-operatively to try to prevent this? Does anyone know any vets in the Chicago area with experience in this type of surgery? My vet does know one who he would assist in Luella's surgery but I'm wondering if there are opinions on any in this area. Lastly, if I do decide to decline the surgery, does anyone know if a sweater might keep her warm? Any info on obtaining one of those? (I'm sort of kidding about the sweater, but not really!!) Thank you, Sandy Barcelona Sandra Barcelona Northwestern University, Evanston, IL. USA s-barcelona@nwu.edu 4. Buzz - thickened colon - Urgent Date sent: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 10:03:06 -0500 From: jkerin@attorneygeneral.gov MODERATOR'S NOTE: This was sent out separately to subscribers as messages marked urgent usually are, then posted in the next list. Lynn Mc. Hello, I need suggestions . . . I took Buzz to the vet last week (he's seven years old), he was throwing up, lost a few ounces and seemed dehydrated. The vet took an x-ray and said that he had a thickened colon. She said it could be a disease that is rare in ferrets or cancer, the only way to tell for sure is a biopsy. Because of his age she suggested putting him on prednisone and reglan (this is supposed to help him digest faster so that he don't throw up). She also gave him sub-q fluids. He is eating duck soup, and treats on occasion on his own but he is still losing weight and occasionally throwing up. I don't know what to do. I don't want to force feed him (quality of life) if he is dying, I don't want to stress him. I don't want to operate if it can't help him or cause the cancer to spread more, if it hasn't already. Most important, I don't want him to suffer. I have had seven ferrets pass on and I have never had to help them along, although it's been close. He still gets around the house, he also sleeps a great deal. Is there anything I could/should do??? Any suggestions??? Please don't wait for the next faiml, e-mail directly. Thank you. Joy 5. Reply: Buzz - thickened colon From: Outlaw50@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:35:58 EST In reading "Ferrets, Rabbits and Rodents", pages 38 - 43, a thickened colon is often indicative of Proliferative Bowel Disease. Treatment is chloramphenicol. "Give affected animals 50 mg/kg q12h, either by IM or SC injection (chloramphenicol sodium succinate) or PO...a ferret ...improves quickly with this treatment..." It could also be eosinophilic gastroenteritis, in which case the treatment would be prednisone from 1.25 to 2.5 mg/kg q24h given PO for the first week and q48h thereafter until the ferret is clinically normal. If you need a copy of the pages of the book pertaining to this, please e-mail me. I'll be happy to copy them and send them to your vet if he/she doesn't have the book. I hope this helps... Judy 6. Buzz - a reply:) From: "Michele" Date sent: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:00:49 -0500 Hi your email was forwared to me from Joy.. I just went thru the worst nithgmare with the vet I used..My ferret was out of it and drooling and I had no clue what was wrong..This was on a Sunday morning at 2am..My vet I used was not in and I had to wait till the next evening to have my ferret examined..He was examined and I was told he had the following things: an enlarged bladder an enlarged spleen(he had that sine I found him) the vet suggested he have an exploratory surgery to see what could be wrong.He said he uses his *gut feeling*while operating..He said it was most likely adrenal disease..well my ferret had the surgery and I got a calll from the vet saying he found this: enlarged adreanls,the right more so then the left an enlarged heart maybe..and when I asked him about a glucose tolerance test he said he would and then called me to tell me it was 68..but it was THAT low from not eating food..I then asked for a retake and he refused and told me he does not have insulinoma that I read too much on the FML etc.Well I took my baby back home and the very next night he suffered thesame symptoms and I was crying thinking he was dying..I then called Steve Resnick from the FML digest and took him up on his kind offer to take him to his vet..He picked him up took him to the vet where he was tested for various diseases.He suffered yet another seizure and Steve ran to his vet and was given an iv and he also took a glucose tolerance test..Meanwhile need I say I was crying all day and was sick over what was the matter? the next day Steve called to tell me he had a diagnosis and it was insulinoma. The vet put him on prednisone first .3cc's for two weeks increasing to .4 cc's ..I thought my baby was suffering and prayed he would just cross that rainbow bridge so he wouldnt suffer any longer..Thank goodness for people like Steve who gave a darn and lent a hand to a total stranger..if not for his help I know my Bandi would no longer be here..You must ask yourself if first off you can find another vet for a second opinion and then see what he/she diagnosis.. If you baby isnt eating you need to give him duck soup and try to see if he will eat any..If he doesnt then you must ask the vet what you can do to make him eat..If he is NOT diagnosed with any disease then you still need to know what is wrong with you baby..I agree that if there is no quality of life then perhaps it is best to put him or her down so their suffering and pain is gone..This is a personaly and very difficult thing to decide..but after seeing my bandit suffer from seizures three times I know if the predniosne no longer worked and the other medicine there is after prednisone stopped working, I would see how Bandit was before I made this difficult decison..If he still ate and drank and played but was slower then he used to be I could accecpt that because he is almost 6 or 7 years old and know ferrets unfortunatley do not live as long as some pets do..Its when they no longer are eating and drinking and paying attention to life and seem to be in pain,then you and only you should decided what is best for your ferret.. I did not receive enough info other then your ferret isnt eating and was diagnosed he had an enlarged colon but the prednisone is an cortisteroid which is used to degrese tumours like the kind my Bandit has in his pancreas..Insulinoma is like thousands of tiny isolet tumours that reck havoc with insulin the body supplies..its like the opposite of diabetes.. Please call your vet and ask what more you can do and if you still get nowhere then consider going to a new vet and see what more can be done .I know this is so hard on you and my heart aches for you because I just went thru this with my ferret..Please feel free to email me at anytime..I know in times like these emails helped me not feel so alone.. Take care and hug you ferrets for me, Michele "Without love our life is... a ship without a rudder... like a body without a soul." 7. Eukanuba From: "Butts, Jennifer" Date sent: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 12:56:51 -0500 Thanks Celeste, I am glad to hear of someone else that has used the Eukanuba and like it. I have been very happy with it, but of course being the insane overprotective mom I am I am still looking at every other commercial food available :) And I hope this isn't top secret info ;) but I talked to the doctor at Performance Foods (the Totally Ferret people), because that is what I have been feeding my girl for 5 years and he told me that they are playing around with making a soft recovery diet and also a high protein and fat diet for cancer kids :) I was thrilled! Not sure when it will come out, but I am definitely keeping my eyes out, though I hope my girl will be completely recovered before it does (fingers crossed). As much as I like the Eukanuba, it will be great to have a recovery food made specifically for ferrets. Just had to share with everyone. All your sick fuzzies are in my thoughts and lots of hugs to them all! Jenna 8. supplement info post From: Glenn Johnson Date sent: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 14:38:53 -0700 Ferret People, Why aren't our ferrets healthy? Here's a most interesting answer...... the author sees all domestic animals, as well as humans, suffering from enzyme deficiency, particularly as they age. No proof of its accuracy but it makes fascinating reading, particularly the last half of the article. http://www.aabhealth.com/Howell.htm Bless our ferrets, Glenn and Chuki 9. Color Fur From: KERTWR@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:53:27 EST Hi- I have about a 9mth old Silver Mit female. She started off white and silver, now up to her neck, on top and bottom side, are yellow and silver. They eat Marshall food ( they are Marshall ferrets). Is this normal? She seems to act ok. Thanks Karen Kertwr@aol.com ------------------------- End of FAIML #358 --------------------------