From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 10:53 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@miamiferret.org Subject: FAIML #359; Dec. 2, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #359; Dec. 2, 1999 1. Hard times 2. Excessive Drinking 3. shedding 4. BUZZ - update 5. BUZZ - update 2 6. BUZZ - update 3 7. Dr. Karen's book 8. Problems with urinating..... 9. answers to some questions 10. Suggestions for Jasmine? (Adrenal scratching) 11. Itching 12. suggestions for Jasmine (adrenal scratching) 13. Enzymes 14. YELLOW CAST TO FUR The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Hard times From: dervish@scrye.com Date sent: 2 Dec 1999 23:28:29 -0000 This is an update from Nickodemus's Mom. As some of you old timers remember Nick died after his third surgery for adrenal disease. His younger sister Missy started stagering around less than six months after Nick's untimely death. She has Insulinoma and even after a surgery was completely unable to walk. I nursed her for weeks and on my way to the vet we got into a terrible car accident and she died from complications 5 days later. 10 months after Nick died. I prayed to god to give me some time to recover. Within a week the youngest of our Marshall farms ferrets, Mason began loosing hair, has low blood suger, and has very large and swollen lymph nodes. In my house that would be 100% of the Marshall Farms Ferrets have had cancer. 2 with Adrenal,2 with Insulinoma, 1 with both, and lyphoscacoma. I love Ferrets but I don't know if my heart can bear the pain anymore. I'm broke my bank account on surgery that has never helped. I took weeks off of work to nurse Missy only to see her die slowly over two days of the most terrible thing I've ever seen. Now Mason, I don't know how I can make it throught her 3fold cancer. -Dixie Carter 2. Excessive Drinking From: Sunshine Date sent: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:35:30 -0800 I just read on ferretcentral about Adrenal Disease and excessive drinking. Can any of you tell me if this happened with your? We got in a rescue ferret 1 1/2 days ago and he drinking alot of water. We thought maybe it was because he may not have had water for days. So almost two days later he is drinking alot. We have marked the bottle today to see how much. When he is out in the bedroom he drinks alot from the bowl. My friend said his tail fur looks alittle thin, but not really sure it is. Not as thin as her older baby is. Debbie 3. shedding From: EquineAmy@aol.com Date sent: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:33:59 EST Hi everyone I have another question about my Winnie. She is still shedding!!! It has been at least a month now. She was on amox drops casue she had an infection - that has since cleared up. She is regrowing hair too. The spots that she was shaved are filling in nicely and her tail has gotten quite thick - nothing like what happend to my connor when I first notices his adrenal hair loss. Has anyone had a ferret that shed a lot and that is all that it was. I will take her to her specialist in December/January as I don't feel it is an emergency at all, but want him to look at her anyway. Does anyone ahve anyother suggestions as to what it might be? Amy 4. BUZZ - update From: jkerin@attorneygeneral.gov Date sent: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:39:05 -0500 Hello, I would like to thank everyone very much for their opinions, advice and concerns. The response was overwelming. It's nice to know that there is this wonderful network of people. Buzz seems a little worse this morning, he is still eating on his own but he threw up it looks like twice last night. A blockage was ruled out, he is using his litter box. A couple things I forget to mention last time I e-mailed. The vet said it was bowel disease or lymphoma (last e-mail I said cancer, same thing I believe). Buzz is also digging after he eats . . . in the carpet, under the carpet, in the litter box (which I took the litter out and replaced with paper towels), he doesn't dig there anymore. I knew that that meant something but I forgot what. I just found out it's probably because he is nauseous. The consensus is that Buzz has ECE and/or ulcers and/or food allergies and or bowel disease. I'm relieved nobody mentioned lymphoma. In any case the consensus has been putting Buzz on amoxicillian incase of secondary infections and for ulcers. Switching him to Iams lamb and rice food in case he had a food allergy to poultry. Right now he is eating Totally Ferret. I'm going to keep him on pred just in case but I'm switching to pedia pred instead of prednisone. There were also suggestions of carafate for ulcers, ematral for nauseousness and chloramphenical for proliferative bowel disease. I'm waiting for a call from my vet to discuss these with her. I rescued Buzz about a year ago with his bestest friend Woody, they are both seven and as far as I know have been together forever. The sad part is that I think Woody is depressed because he knows Buzz is sick. Woody seems better the last day or two but four or five days ago you could just see it on his face. I've never seen to ferrets that seem as connected as these two. I'm keepin a close eye on Woody to make sure if it's ECE he's not getting it too. Joy 5. BUZZ - update 2 From: jkerin@attorneygeneral.gov Date sent: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 12:16:53 -0500 Hello, I just wanted to let you all know that I talked to the vet and we are going to try Buzz on Predia Pred, Carafate and Amoxicillian. Along with Iams Lamb and Rice. I still think she believes it's lymphoma, but she's willing to try anything opposed to opening him up. I don't think that's an option. If it is lymphoma, I don't think knowing it will help if nothing can be done about it. What do all of you think??? Joy 6. BUZZ - update 3 From: jkerin@attorneygeneral.gov Date sent: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:41:10 -0500 Hello, Sorry to be a big pain . . . but my vet had to call in the three prescriptions I mentioned before to my pharmacy, because the only one she had on hand was the amoxicillian. She just called back to tell me that she can't get the pedia pred. She said the manufacturer quit making it and the only other thing they had in liquid form tastes as bad as the prednisone. Does anyone know about this? Is there any other place to get it? I called the pharmacy and they said that there is nothing else comparable and they are not making it anymore. Joy 7. Dr. Karen's book From: "Lisa Kerby" Date sent: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 19:39:58 -0600 Hi Lynn, I was wondering if you could post information about Dr. Karen's book. Title, cost and where we can get it. It would make a nice Christmas gift for someone. (possibly me) Thanks, Lisa and Dale (my furbaby) lakerby@smithville.net MODERATOR'S NOTE: If someone will send along the info I'll gladly post it. Or, Michael, is it on your website? I'm sure it was posted here at some point and would love to repost it. Dr. Karen? What's the latest on where to get your book? Lynn 8. Problems with urinating..... From: "thone ." Date sent: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 21:05:06 CET I am impressed, so much knowledge, so much care! I have got mails and it seams like you are all close... I have tried to translate the mail Una sent to me, I just got it.: "Hello Thone! I had an appointment at the vet today, it was stones in the bladder. Not strange that my little ferret has had problems to pee. She is taken in for surgery tomorrow morning and neutralizing ( or do you say sterilisation?). We have had her only for a week, she has been around pretty much after she was found, probably because of this problem she has. We know nothing about her background. I hope everything will work out good now. Thanks for help, care and sympathy! Love Una & Bella." I am glad it was not really serious this time, I pray the vet is a good one and that little Bella will have many good years to come! I'll tell you how the surgery turns out. Thank You, all of you for taking so much care and interest! You are just great! :) Thone 9. answers to some questions From: ANITABEERS@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 19:36:51 EST Hi Everyone! For Lucie and Jasmine: Try getting some 'Relief' spray from your vet. Our fert has the same problem and gets scabs on his bald areas. Our vet recommended the spray and sometimes he does lick it off, but ingesting it will still help soften up their skin and relieve the sore spots. Ours hates getting sprayed though, so you might want to warm it up in some hot water and then rub it on with your hands, to rub on them!!! - 'Mom, that's cold - Oh O.K., for a little ferrivite!' :-) For Lisa and Vanna: I'm a little concerned that your vet diagnosed Vanna with 'Cushings' since this isn't really the right term for adrenal problems (although I'm not a vet). You might want to double check how ferret savy she is just in case. In the meantime, it sounds like you could wait and make sure she grows all her fur back in. Usually you don't want to assume adrenal problems unless there is more than one symptom, but keep an eye on her since changes in fur growth and loss can occur with adrenal problems. Sounds like it might just be stress or winter coat changes for now though! :-) For Sandra and Luella: 7 is older for a ferret, but if she's in good shape she should still tolerate surgery well. It does sound like an adrenal problem, so if it were me, I wouldn't spend money on tests for diagnoses. Check for dry itchy skin - that's another symptom. If you don't want to put her thru surgery, you could try the Lupron shots, or as you mentioned, just let it be. I don't have personal experience with that, but I've also heard that the ferret can be bald but happy for several years. As far as I know, if she doesn't get a swollen vulva which can cause UT infections, she probably won't be uncomfortable from her adrenal tumor. Don't know Chigago vets, or post operative meds., but you could get a sweater from 'The Ferret Store'. Call 1-888-8-ferret and they'll give you the info. Although, as a warning, our bald fert keeps his sweater on for about 1.75 seconds! :-) See ya! Anita 10. Suggestions for Jasmine? (Adrenal scratching) From: Robert Dejournett Date sent: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:08:59 -0600 (CST) Hi, Daisy is also an adrenal ferret with scratching, lethargy, muscular atrophy, etc. Her skin has been getting worse. When it gets dry and scaly, I put olive oil on her. She's not too happy about it (greased weasel) but it absorbes relatively quickly. I tried baby oil and that wasn't recommended because it dries skin out. Also I've been told to try cod liver oil, available in the vitamin section of a grocery store. A short update on her, I started Lupron Depot (2mg) about 3 weeks ago (something around that time, anyway), while she is still quite naked she is regaining fur on her tail (*slowly*) and her vaginal discharge has stopped. I think also the swelling has decreased somewhat. So I'm real encouraged by this, even though the cost is astronomical (for me). No luck with herbal medications. In fact it seemed to get worse and not better, so I stopped them altogether. Just my $.02 as always! Rob -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Robert Dejournett rdej@gsbs3.gs.uth.tmc.edu Graduate Student Graduate School of Biomedical Science University of Texas Houston 11. Itching From: Sunshine Date sent: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:31:38 -0800 I emailed this to you but will also post. What I suggest is Aveeno baths. This Aveeno has oatmeal in it and seems to help. Sorry to hear the ferret isn't doing to good. Vets do have some cort cream they can give you. Debbie 12. suggestions for Jasmine (adrenal scratching) From: Linda Iroff Date sent: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 08:27:39 -0500 Belle is also very red and itchy from adrenal. I bathe her about once every 2 weeks with a medicated shampoo from the vet, and then let her soak for a few minutes in colloidal oatmeal. You can find colloidal oatmeal in the bubble bath or bath salts section of the drug store. (Aveeno is a popular brand name.) It is soothing and non-drying. The medicated shampoo and oatmeal both seem to help. Linda Iroff Oberlin OH 13. Enzymes From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 21:53:55 -0500 >8. supplement info post >From: Glenn Johnson > >Why aren't our ferrets healthy? Here's a most interesting answer...... >the author sees all domestic animals, as well as humans, suffering from >enzyme deficiency, particularly as they age. > >No proof of its accuracy but it makes fascinating reading, particularly >the last half of the article. Very interesting. Both personally and at our shelter, our ferrets have been getting enzymes added to their foods for quite some time now. We feel it's particularly important when the have an intestinal problem, such as ECE. We use "FerretZyme Plus" which is produced by a local holistic vet under the company name of "Pet Friends, Inc." Here's what the FerretZyme jar says... "Ferrets require proper digestion of nutrients for optimum vitality. FerretZyme Plus contains plant and pancreas enzymes to replace those lacking in pet foods and pancreas dysfunction. Friendly bacteria help maintain normal intestinal health. Concentrated liver and pancreas have many essential nutrients for digestion and organ function." Sadly, enzymes do not seem to be any sort of answer for the common diseases we see in ferrets and I can't even say 100% that it speeds their recovery from ECE as there has been no comparative analysis done. If anyone is interested in more info on FerretZyme, the phone number for Pet Friends is 305-739-4416. I believe they have a web page somewhere, but I don't have the URL. I'd give www.petfriends.com a shot if it were me. I have no monetary interest in this company, this is just a FYI. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 14. YELLOW CAST TO FUR From: "Grant, Lillian" Date sent: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 09:51:37 -0800 Howdy All! To Answer the question on Fur Coloring. First check the list of ingredient contained in the food you are feeding your ferret. You should find somewhere near the bottom of the list a #?? YELLOW. This dye is added to give the food color, and as with anything you eat, it effects the outside. Example, My Spanky is a Silvermit, 2 year old, who came from C&D Feeds, Needles. My friends have his brother Jackpot & 1/2 sister Chance. Both are Silvermits. (all Three are becoming Sterling Silvers). Jackpot & Chance have a yellow cast down the backbone & tail specially. All three are very healthy, but the color difference really separates them. We use similar mixtures food with one difference. We get them together periodically and we noticed the yellow cast in Jackpot & Chance's coats and not in Spanky. We all researched their Food Ingredient list and found one of theirs contains #5 yellow. Stephanie & My Little Band Of Closet Thieves: Spanky, Moose, SnowFlake, George & Gracie And the Zoo: TAZ, Dara Nin, Snickers, Monkey Inside/Out Cat & 1 Line Dragon + Sam, Claudia, & Scarlett O'Ferret @ Rainbow Bridge ---------------------- End of FAIML #359 ------------------------