From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 1:37 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #360; Dec. 3, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #360; Dec. 3, 1999 1. weasel's surgery please 2. Adrenal Headaches 3. Bear has Pale Gums, ect.; for Dixie 4. adrenal patient questions 5. Problems with urinating.....a big STONE 6. Excessive Drinking/Hard Times 7. Dr. Karen's book 8. Dr. Karen's book 9. Pedipred The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. weasel's surgery please From: "Holly Domanick" Date sent: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 01:22:45 EST Hi everyone, I just wanted to let everyone know that weasel's right adrenal surgery is scheduled for Monday Dec. 6. The vet and I have decided that we have waited long enough. Her vulva is swelling more and she is itching more. She is very active and eats well. She has gained over four ounces in the past month. I am really nervous about this; but I want to give her the best chance for a normal healthy life. Her left adrenal was removed in June 98. It was cancerous. He is a very caring vet and is very glad when I tell him about anything new I learn from here or the FML. He is willing to phone other vets for advice and has done so in the past. He feels surgery is the best option and feels comfortable doing it. The only problem is he hasn't done very many right adrenals. She is only 3 and a MF ferret. Someone mentioned Eukanuba maxium calorie diet. Where do you find it at? The only store in our town that carries that brand name only has dry food. Is there a place I can send for it? I live in Clearfield Pennsylvania. Please keep my angel in your thoughts and prayers on Mon. and I will do the same for all your angels. Thank you Lynn for this great list. Eileen and her special angels weasel, rascal, r.j. 2. Adrenal Headaches From: Diane Date sent: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 23:32:42 -0600 Hi all and to those of you that have lost fuzzies and are going through tough times my thoughts are with you. I have a question about a problem that I have had with one of my ferrets for over a year and a half now. I have read many posts about adrenal but never one like what I am going to share with you so if anyone out there has any advice or have had similar experiences it would really be great to hear from you for moral support. My ferret has lost all her fur on her tail over a year ago and it was covered in blackheads so I bought some antibacterial shampoo and washed her tail in it and the fur grew back. No more thoughts on the matter until a few months ago when she lost it all again and this time no blackheads were to be found so I immediately panicked and thought of adrenal. I took her in to the doctor and they did a blood work up on her and said she was un diagnostic, that her hormone levels were at the upper levels of normal. The vet suggested exploratory surgery and I hesitated on this as she was fine in every other respect. No behavior problems, no swollen vulva, no further fur loss but after 3 months elapsed I felt the time had come to have this surgery done. The vet opened her up and found nothing. Everything looked normal but he did a skin biopsy which he had to send off to Arizona (I live in Arkansas) and sure enough when the results came in it was adrenal!! The vet said he wanted to reopen her in 6 months time because this particular case interested him and he had never seen a case of adrenal like this. I posted to the FML and got a few responses but I felt I needed to post to you all and see what I could find out. What am I to do? Why do her adrenal glands look normal, yet she has adrenal? What if the vet reopens her and finds nothing again? Will she be in danger of dying anytime soon? The questions go on and on. Any help you all can give me would be greatly appreciated as this is becoming a real nightmare and I don't want to have my poor little girl cut up again for nothing. For those of you that answered my post a few months ago on the FML about this I thank you for all your advice but now that she has had the surgery it makes it all even more perplexing. --Diane-- 3. Bear has Pale Gums, ect.; for Dixie From: "Steve and Becky McMall" Date sent: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 09:15:10 -0600 Dixie, I would imagine that many of us feel the same way you do. We lost Scamper just two weeks ago today to tumors/insulinoma. It advanced fairly rapidly and she was in a lot of pain all the time from ulcers, so it was almost a relief for her, but heartwrenching for us humans. Scamper, Bear, and Snowball all had adrenal surgery within the last year. All are Marshall Farms, with Scamper and Bear both 4.5 yrs old and Snowball a year younger. The money we've spent on vets and meds since last November is horrendous, but we would gladly spend it again triplefold if it would keep them healthy, but nothing seems to help. But, Dixie, it IS hard to go on taking care of the fuzzies when they just seem to die eventually. All I can say is: Hang in there, and take care of yourself, too. You are allowed to be selfish. And at least one of us (me) has thought many times recently, that maybe it would be easier to give all the babies to a shelter. It is not easy taking care of sick ones, it makes it even harder when I love them so much and hate to have to be "mean" and give meds and force feed. Now Bear is showing many of the same symptoms Scamper was. He has lost weight (doesn't seem to have an interest in eating, either) and has a lot of muscle weakness, including the wobbly-hind-end walk. He doesn't have the poops of an ulcer, though. He does grind his teeth a bit while eating. I am concerned about his lose of color in his gums and ears I even noticed last night while trimming nails that his quicks (?, the part above the nail that has the blood line) are even pale. When I read up on it, it is supposed to indicate a bleeding ulcer or extreme shock. Neither of these seem to fit and I wondered if anyone else with insulinoma babies has noticed this? Oh, we started Bear on the pedia-pred (.5cc) that Scamper had even before she died, but we have not had him officially diagnosed. Dr. Kendrick had mentioned back in July after his adrenal surgery and he had removed a dozen small tumors from Bear's pancreas to watch for the insulinoma symptoms. From what I read, that is the about the only thing that can be done......the prednisone plus regular high protein feedings. Anyway, sorry this got to be so long, I just wondered if the pale gums could mean anemia or low blood sugar or anything other than the shock and bleeding ulcers. Becky and Steve and five fuzzies, (four of whom are healthy, anyway!) 4. adrenal patient questions From: Beth Godfrey Date sent: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 10:50:57 -0700 I also have a question, and am attaching a note recently emailed to Dr.Williams... if any vet has an opinion they have the time to share, I'd greatly appreciate it :) Hi Dr. Williams, My 5.5 yr old ferret Taz appears to have an adrenal tumor. His hair loss first became noticeable last December, starting at his rump. In June my vet sent a frozen blood sample to the College of Veterinary Medicine in Knoxville, which came back supporting clinical signs for the presence of adrenal disease: Estradiol pmol/L: 173.2 17 OH Progesterone nmol/L: 1.4 Androstendione nmol/L: 8.0 In early July, she performed an exploratory, but unfortunately could not find the tumor; we think that perhaps we were premature with the surgery. His baldness on his rump had seemed to level off, but he did have some baldness starting over his shoulder blades and back. But he still had more fur than not at that time. It is now December, and his rump still looks about the same, but the baldness has accelerated in the shoulder area -- now, he's furless from the top of his head to the middle of his torso. And, not surprisingly, his fur never grew back on his underside after undergoing the first surgery. I clearly don't want to wait until it's too late. Should we do another of these special adrenal blood tests? Must we wait until he's totally bald before the tumor becomes visible? Taz does not show any symptoms -- he's always had a marathoner type physique, and is still quite agile, strong, and playful. One other puzzler is that he "doks" a lot more than he used to -- when he's playing with the others, but also when he jumps down from the sofa, which seems to indicate pain to me. Any suggestions or insight you can jot down would be greatly appreciated; I do realize that you might be swamped with this sort of mail, however, so if you can't get back to me, I understand. Thanks sincerely, Beth Godfrey 5. Problems with urinating.....a big STONE From: "thone ." Date sent: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 15:57:14 CET Just have to inform you all that little Bellas surgery was successful,the vet. found a stone that filled up the whole bladder. The stone was covered with something like small needles, so she must have been in real pain....still she played and seamed happy, can someone explain that? She is doing very well after the surgery and they think she is 2 or 3 years old. Thone 6. Excessive Drinking/Hard Times From: Sunshine Date sent: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 17:32:07 -0800 Don't ya all get silly on me because of the subject line,hehehe. Pokey the rescue is drinking,pooping and peeing less. So hopefully, he was just making up on lost food and water. Wish I knew what to say about the hard times. We lost two pets this year, one was a ferret we had for three weeks and one was our 5+ year old rabbit. It does get hard on our emotions. Maybe if you think of all the postitive things you do or did for your animals will help cheer you up. Even talking to someone about how the animal acted can help. Hang in there and do what your heart feels best. Debbie 7. Dr. Karen's book From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:15:10 -0500 Dr. Karen Purcell's book is indeed listed on the adrenal/insulinoma site. The notice about it is in the right hand column, near the top. It's also on the "Medical Books" page which has a link near the bottom of the menu on the left. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 8. Dr. Karen's book From: Ferret Wise Shelter Date sent: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:51:04 -0500 Hi Lynn, I found it ( Dr. Kern's new book) posted on the catalog pages at www.Ferretware.com good information and it helps rescue ferrets too! alicia for the many faces of Ferret Wise 9. Pedia-Pred From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 23:15:14 -0500 > 6. BUZZ - update 3 > From: jkerin@attorneygeneral.gov > Date sent: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:41:10 -0500 > Sorry to be a big pain . . . but my vet had to call in the three > prescriptions I > mentioned before to my pharmacy, because the only one she had on hand was the > amoxicillian. She just called back to tell me that she can't get the pedia > pred. She said the manufacturer quit making it and the only other thing they > had in liquid form tastes as bad as the prednisone. A while back, I went to get my pedia-pred prescription refilled and was a bit shocked (and worried!) when they told me they didn't have it and it was on backorder. The pharmacist suggested Prelone, which is three times the concentration but not as bitter as regular (?) prednisone. I called my vet and they said it was ok and Beasley's dosage was adjust from 0.3ml to 0.1ml. It's such a tiny amount that when I mixed it into his food, he never noticed if it tasted bad. Fortunately I was able to get the pedia-pred refilled a week or two ago. I had not heard that they stopped making it. If you mix it into Buzz's food, he shouldn't even notice. He should get it with food anyway. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc ------------------------- End of FAIML #360 -----------------------------