From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 9:27 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@miamiferret.org Subject: FAIML #361; Dec. 7, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #361; Dec. 7, 1999 1. BUZZ - Update 4 2. Question on Hair Loss, Adrenal? 3. Holly & Weasal; adrenal surgeries 4. Holly, Diane, and Becky 5. Skin biopsy 6. pale gums, feet pads 7. Bear Had Pale Gums 8. Yellow fur post 9. Adrenal Headaches The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. BUZZ - Update 4 From: jkerin@attorneygeneral.gov Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:52:42 -0500 Hello Everyone, This past weekend Buzz was at an all time low, but that seemed to pass on Monday morning. Buzz seems to be doing better, not 100%, but better. He's a little more active and he just looks better. He's eating hard and soft food on his own and taking the medicines without fussing as much. He still likes his ferretone and ferretvite but he's not eating the ferretbites that he used to stare me down to get. He'll take them and then go set the down. Now my question is how long do I keep him on the medicines? If lymphoma caused his colon to be thickened should he stay on the pedia pred? If he stays on the pedia pred should he stay on the carafate? I heard he should because the pedia pred might upset his stomach and cause his ulcer(s) to flare up again. Maybe it's not lymphoma, my vet says the only way to find out is a biopsy. Buzz's prescription for pedia pred says that he is to be on it for ten days and then every other day for ten days and so on. But if it is lymphoma, shouldn't he be on pedia pred forever? Thank you very much for everyones help. Joy 2. Question on Hair Loss, Adrenal? Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:33:06 -0600 From: "Mary Rogers" Rowdy my furryless wonder had hair loss, itching, pink skin, 2 adrenal surgeries and urinal surgery before he crossed the bridge last July. He was almost 6 and a Marshall Farms. Daisy (2/3 yrs) is showing signs of over-all hair thinning from tail/rump area to shoulders but no swollen volva. She's going in for surgery after the first of the year when my vet can do cryo surgery. Sadie (2 1/2 yrs) tail is thinning and she's lost her guard hairs. Wheeler (5 1/2 yrs) tail is thinning. He's already had 1 adrenal surgery before I adopted him. I have not changed food, laundry detergent, etc. Could this just be a seasonal coat change? They're both Marshall Farms. Chico (going on 3 yrs) tail is thinning with bare-ish spots from the tip to 2/3rds of the way down. He bites at it, but not obsessively. Can stress cause this? His coat is short and course, but always has been. He's a Path Valley. Am I just being paranoid of adrenal? Anytime they get hair loss I fear adrenal. Could it be stress and coat change? Would brushing or a bath help? Any advise and/or words of encouragement is greatly welcome! Thanks, Mary and The 15 Munchkins 3. Holly & Weasal; adrenal surgeries From: "Mary L. McCarty" Date sent: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 18:09:40 -0500 Hi Eileen, >I just wanted to let everyone know that weasel's right adrenal surgery is >scheduled for Monday Dec. 6. The vet and I have decided that we have waited >long enough. Her vulva is swelling more and she is itching more. She is very >active and eats well. She has gained over four ounces in the past month. I am >really nervous about this; but I want to give her the best chance for a normal >healthy life. Her left adrenal was removed in June 98. It was cancerous. He is >very caring vet and is very glad when I tell him about anything new I learn from >here or the FML. He is willing to phone other vets for advice and has done so in If your vet does want to phone someone, our shelter vet in State College (Dr. Sharon Marx at Metzger Animal Hospital) is very experienced with left & right adrenal surgery (I'm trying to turn her on to the cryosurgery) and I'm sure she would be more than happy to talk to him. Sharon also does Lupron injections (4-month depot) if you want to look into that. The phone number for Metzger's is 814-237-5333 and Sharon works Mondays, Tuesdays, Fridays and Saturdays. She does all her surgeries (barring an emergency) on Friday mornings. >ferret. Someone mentioned Eukanuba maxium calorie diet. Where do you find it >at? I've never used this, if you find it let me know. Is this a wet food? I've been so busy I've been skimming the FAIML lately and don't recall reading that post. As for the folks that have gone in for adrenal surgery only to have no signs of an adrenal tumor - in my experience (and my vets) the adrenal can look normal while still overproducing the hormones. When in doubt, take out the left gland. That's what I've always followed. Anyone else? As for Pediapred & Prelone - I used to use Prelone on the insulinomic ferrets and I've always had problems giving it. It was much more bad-tasting than regular PediaPred. I think they can actually flavor the pediapred, can't they? Just not with a sugary flavor. Mary Mary McCarty-Houser, Director Pennsylvania Ferret Rescue Association of Centre County http://www.ferretrescue.com 4. Holly, Diane, and Becky From: "Butts, Jennifer" Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 09:01:05 -0500 Holly, You can only get the Eukanuba Maximum Calorie diet at a vet's office. The kind I get comes in a small can and is a canine/feline formula (I mention this because I think they also make a dry formula as well, though I am not sure). It might take a few calls to find; I had to call 4 different vets before I found one that carries it. I have really been comparing a lot of commercial diets and am most impressed with the Eukanuba for sick or underweight ferrets. Also I feed my girl roughly 30ml (1oz) a day and that maintains her bodyweight (~1.8 pounds), if you want her to gain weight you can feed her more (~50ml/day). You could ask you vet about it. Diane, I have never experienced adrenal in my girl and only know from what I have read about it on several lists. But, do you think it could be do to the season's change or anything in her environment that has changed (stress, chemicals, etc.)? Did you notice the first hair loss around the same time last year? I would think that if there are no other symptoms and your vet already did 1 exploratory surgery and found nothing (and you trust his abilities) then you should just watch her and look for other symptoms before you do anything else. If her only problem is hair loss on her tail and you do not notice any other changes then I think you should not worry to much about it. Either that or get a second opinion...hopefully you will get more responses from others who know more about this than I. :) Becky, I am not positive, but I think that the paleness could be a symptom of anemia. Did you ask your vet about these symptoms? I think that would be the best idea, and if he can not give you a good answer try to get a second opinion; it can never hurt, especially if he is losing weight and is weak. I think that should definitely be looked into! Good luck to all of you and everyone else with a sick fuzzy! You are all in my thoughts. Jenna 5. Skin biopsy From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 15:13:05 -0500 > From: Diane months elapsed I felt the time had come to > have this surgery done. The vet opened her up and found nothing. Everything > looked normal but he did a skin biopsy which he had to send off to Arizona (I > live in Arkansas) and sure enough when the results came in it was adrenal!! > The vet said he wanted to reopen her in 6 months time because this particular > case interested him and he had never seen a case of adrenal like this. I > posted to the FML and got a few responses but I felt I needed to post to you > all and see what I could find out. > What am I to do? Why do her adrenal glands look normal, yet she has adrenal? > What if the vet reopens her and finds nothing again? Will she be in danger of > dying anytime soon? The questions go on and on. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, or there's some new test. Do you know how the lab in Arizona determine adrenal problems by a skin biopsy? A hairless tail is not always a sign of adrenal disease, though it can sometimes be the start. I've had ferrets that have had the dreaded "rat tail" for a number of years and did not have adrenal disease. Sidney lived to be 7.5 years old and never developed adrenal disease and Punky Doodle had a rat tail for 3 years before he started showing signs of adrenal disease. If it were me, I would not have surgery done based on a rat tail alone. No, I don't believe that she's in danger of dying from adrenal disease any time soon. Even on definite cases of adrenal disease, they can live with it for quite some time and this case seems less than definite. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 6. pale gums, feet pads From: Moxie Date sent: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 19:58:25 -0500 Hi, Just a note that pale gums and feed pads are also seen in the later stages of kidney failure, as the body loses its ability to produce red blood cells. Both of my ferrets who had kidney failure had whitish gums and pads at the end of it. It's a rotten condition. Some of the earlier symptoms include gradual weight loss and going off dry food and only eating duck soup. My ferrets were 6.5 and 7.5 years of age when this happened. Best wishes for all the sick little fuzzies. Moxie and Chance -- * Page me online through my Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/949746 (go there and try it!) or, * Send me E-mail Express directly to my computer screen 949746@pager.mirabilis.com For downloading ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ For adding similar signatures to your e-mail go to: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html Moxie and Chance 7. Bear Had Pale Gums From: Sunshine Date sent: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:53:18 -0800 All I can say is, when force feeding, look as this as, if you don't the ferret may die We had to force feed two for 2 1/2 days and this is what I thought. We only had the two for 4 days. Debbie 8. Yellow fur post From: Glenn Johnson Date sent: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 17:54:07 -0700 Hello Ferret People, I noticed a post or two recently about a "yellowish cast" in a ferret's fur. My Chuki, a silvermitt, is developing a yellow tint in his fur, starting just a few days ago. Very noticeable outdoors, in natural light. I started putting yeast in his HP diet 7 days ago. ???????????????? Bless the Ferrets, Glenn and Chuki 9. Adrenal Headaches From: Sunshine Date Sent: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:48:40 -0800 So sorry to hear what u went thru,I'm no pro, but if the ferret is doing fine dont break it. I'm no pro at adrenal... Surgery in my eyes is a last last resort.. You need to learn about good vets in your area per your post. I'm hear to talk if you need. Debbie ------------------------- End of FAIML #361 -------------------------