From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 2:03 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #362; Dec. 8, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #362; Dec. 8, 1999 1. Pediapred: Administrative Note 2. Bilateral Adrenal boy still having trouble 3. Lupron Question 4. Bear, a hard decision 5. Re: FAIML #361; Dec. 7, 1999 6. BUZZ/Question on Hair Loss 7. surgery first? 7. Possible adverse Lupron reaction 9. Dr. Weiss on Lupron and bone density/ferret death 10. lympho and Buzz 11. yellow fur 12. Yellow Fur/Pedipred The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Pediapred: Administrative Note From: Lynn McIntosh Date sent: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:7:21 -0500 Hi. There were quite a few messages about the pedipred shortage some have experienced. It's sounding more like the company ran low that they've discontinued the pediapred, but I'll publish the messages together tomorrow. In the meantime, if anyone can't get pedipred e-mail me and I'll give you a number for my wonderful pharmacist, who has quite a few bottles on hand. Lynn 2. Bilateral Adrenal boy still having trouble From: "The Ferret Aid Society" Date sent: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 05:15:32 -0500 I posted about a month ago with Saigon's story. He had his right gland removed over a year ago. Six months ago, he started to loose hair and we went in to remove his left gland. Both glands were cancerous. He got no better, but worse. He now has multiple sores on his hairless body that I rub pollysporin on daily. He is now on Lupron as a last resort and he's had his second shot about a week ago. There has been no change in his condition. Has anyone else experienced this? Any advice? Hugs to your babies and you, Randy The Ferret Aid Society "For the love of our Fuzzy Friends" http://www.ferretaid.org http://www.igive.com/html/ssi.cfm?cid=1383&mid=43897 Use your mouse to raise funds for the shelter at no cost to you! Click here!! 3. Lupron Question From: cinnamonpepper@worldnet.att.net Date sent: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 20:37:09 -0500 My 4 1/2 yr old female, Cinnamon, had her left adrenal removed in 7/98. She has symptoms of the right adrenal. She has had a gradual hair loss over her body for several weeks. She is a poor candidate for surgery because she possibly has lymphosarcoma, although I have not had her biopsied as I chose not to put her through chemo. My vet and I decided, after researching, to give her the 4 month Lupron injection. This was given on 10/20/99. To date she has lost more hair and not regained any. Has anyone on the list had a ferret not respond to the Lupron? Another question: if your fuzzie did respond how long did it take for you to see improvement? I am getting concerned because it has been 7 weeks since injection. She still is her usual ferrety self, eating, pooping and sleeping, oh and playing I would appreciate anyone's input. I posted on the FML about 3 weeks ago and got about 4 reponses, nothing definitive, although most had the shots that lasted for less time than the 4 month one. Sorry so long, but I am a worried mom. Thanks Ann and the crew of 5, (just adopted 2 over the weekend!!!) 4. Bear, a hard decision From: "Steve and Becky McMall" Date sent: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 06:43:21 -0600 Steve and I made the hardest decision of our lives on Monday. We had Bear put to sleep. It's pretty hard to write this, too, knowing what some of you may think. But Bear had not been "with us" for the last few days. We had to bring him out of a semi-coma to feed and water him. I guess that was what it was. He had his eyes open but he did not respond to anything and was totally limp. It was an ordeal just to get him to swallow a drink of water and I was afraid I was going to drown him each time he would not swallow. I called Dr. Kendrick before our decision and he agreed that it may be time. Bear gave up last week, it just took me a while to accept it. Scamper never gave up, so I never gave up on her. She was a little fighter down to the last second of her life. We wonder if maybe Bear gave up so easy because Scamper died. They were cage mates all their lives. I still wonder why the pedia pred never helped either one of them. Thank you to those few who answered my post. Oh, and Debbie, force feeding was never an issue. We force fed him for three months during ECE and force fed Scamper for the last month of her life. Take care all of you, Becky 5. Re: FAIML #361; Dec. 7, 1999 From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" Date sent: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:12:04 +0000 Hi Joy, > SNIP>> > Now my question is how long do I keep him on the medicines? If lymphoma > caused his colon to be thickened should he stay on the pedia pred? If he > stays on the pedia pred should he stay on the carafate? I heard he should > because the pedia pred might upset his stomach and cause his ulcer(s) to flare > up again. Maybe it's not lymphoma, my vet says the only way to find out is a > biopsy. Buzz's prescription for pedia pred says that he is to be on it for > ten days and then every other day for ten days and so on. But if it is > lymphoma, shouldn't he be on pedia pred forever? Yes, and without tapering the dose. This is found in both Hillyer and Quesenberry and my text, if your vet needs references. Mary, > Sadie (2 1/2 yrs) tail is thinning and she's lost her guard hairs. Wheeler (5 > 1/2 yrs) tail is thinning. He's already had 1 adrenal surgery before I > adopted him. I have not changed food, laundry detergent, etc. Could this > just be a seasonal coat change? They're both Marshall Farms. > Sure could. I usually wait a season to be sure, especially if the bloodwork is inconclusive. > Chico (going on 3 yrs) tail is thinning with bare-ish spots from the tip to > 2/3rds of the way down. He bites at it, but not obsessively. Can stress > cause this? His coat is short and course, but always has been. He's a Path > Valley. That's the dreaded black heads on the tail - not conclusive for adrenal in my mind. Hi Mike, > Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, or there's some new test. Do you know > how the lab in Arizona determine adrenal problems by a skin biopsy? > The biopsy would indicate that the hairloss and changes were endocrine related, rather than parasites or infection. It is not specific for adrenal that I know of. -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com 6. BUZZ/Question on Hair Loss From: katharine Date sent: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 16:52:14 -0500 Lily (my poor adrenal/Lysodren baby) has diagnosed lymphoma (biopsy) and is on chemo. She's completed 2 of her 28 weeks so far. She is on pred now for the rest of her life. Twice a day, 4/10cc. Lany got some bald patches a couple of years ago, nothing visible on her skin, just bald spots. It was some sort of skin condition and the vet gave me some sort of lotion which cleared it up. I also feared adrenal but, thank God, it wasn't (we did the UT test). One is enough! Please say prayers for Lily as she goes through her chemotherapy. Katharine 7. surgery first? From: FHbytheSea@aol.com Date sent: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:13:30 EST Debbie wrote: <> Debbie I have to disagree with this statement - surgery for adrenals and especially insulinoma, in my opinion, should be a *first* option, not last. Surgery for adrenals can cure the problem - medication only treats the symptoms. In insulinoma, it may not cure the problem, but the ferret can remain off of medication for a period of time (some have gone up to a year or more). Waiting on surgery, especially considering the ages that most ferrets develop these problems (5 and over) is running the risk of the ferret not being considered a good surgical candidate. I can't say that I am a pro at adrenals - but I've seen my share - and I always try surgery first. I fall back to medications only if the ferret isn't likely to survive the surgery. Lisa, Head Ferret The Ferret Haven "By-the-Sea" http: www.ferrethaven.org Want to help The Ferret Haven By-the-Sea? Register at iGive.com by cutting and pasting this link: http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?CID=1236&MID=854 8. Possible adverse Lupron reaction From: WhyNotFert@aol.com Date sent: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 01:01:44 EST I received this in an email from a local vet today - am passing it on at his request. Can anyone help with info on this? Please email directly as well as to the List and I'll fwd your reply on to the vet. Thanks! >>I have an older client who had her older adrenal ferret die shortly (within 2 days) after I gave it a Lupron injection (Dr. Charlie Weiss's dose). It was not a surgical candidate because we had done a right partial adrenalectomy previously and it was over 6 years old and in very thin, poor condition. I suspect it had other problems going on but, because no post mortem was done, I don't know for sure. I would have liked to have done a post mortem but too much time had elapsed before I was informed about it's death. Have you heard of anyone having problems right after giving the Lupron injection? I've not found any info. on any bad reactions etc... with it. I appreciate any info. you might have on this.<< Carla Smith WhyNot? Ferrets http://www.whynotferrets.com ICQ: 29478475 member, Rio Grande Domestic Ferret Club, El Paso, TX "Every pet deserves to be loved, and to have someone cry over them when they're gone." 9. Dr. Weiss on Lupron and bone density/ferret death From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 23:18:44 -0500 I asked Dr. Weiss about Lupron causing the death of a ferret and also about it's effect on bone density. Here's what he had to say, and gave his permission to quote him. I believe one of these questions came from the FML, the other from the FAIML. "I have not to date (over 200 ferrets) seen any acute deaths with lupron. But I do still say, as always that surgery is the best alternative (esp with the advent of cryo!!!), and it should only be used on non surgical candidates. We do not know all of the long term effects of lupron in the ferret, but I'm using it for ferrets which have an illness that I do not have a better treatment for. I have seen it help countless ferrets, many who would certainly be dead by now if it were not for the drug. As with any drug adverse reactions can occur and are unpredictable. There are always some risks we take when treating patients, but we try to do the best we can with the current available treatments. Decreased bone density has been reported in people with lupron, I have not seen this clinically relevant in the ferret. Also the ferret is so light weight and does not have a problem with osteoporosis, so I think problems from this would be remote. It would be nice to have all of the info (post lupron bone scans, etc.) but unfortunately the money is just not there. Much of this info is not available for dogs and cats either." For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 10. lympho and Buzz From: ANITABEERS@aol.com Date sent: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:25:05 EST Hi Joy! Well, when our adopted 5-6 yr. male fert Silk had lymphoma, the vet had him on fluids (injected by us daily), Vincristine (injected by vet into vein once a month), Cytoxin (given orally by us every 3rd week), Pedia pred (given orally by us daily), and Amoxicillin (given orally by us when needed). I think that's everything, and please don't do a spell check!? :-) Silk had been biopsied and confirmed with lympho, so that was the regimen we decided on. He did very well and lived another 8 months after diagnoses despite having the lymphoblastic? form which moves very quickly. We didn't have too much trouble with ulcers because we were very careful to give Silk his pred with food. We controlled this by syringe feeding him Hills AD and then giving him his pred. If Buzz does have lympho I would guess that he probably would stay on the pedia pred forever. It seems to me that you'll have to check with your vet, and possibly confirm that he actually has lympho before you can decide on how to treat him. Good luck! Anita 11. yellow fur From: EquineAmy@aol.com Date sent: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:01:08 EST When Connor was at the vets for his second shot of Lupron this summer, I asked the vet why he was turning yellow - he gave me two reasons for it. The Lurpon was working, which meant that Connor was regrowing fur - his fur was coming in and it was itchy -therfore connor would chew on his new fur and something with his saliva and mucous would cause some reaction (not a bad thing), but this is waht caused his fur to turn yellow. He said it was actually a good thing cause is meant his hair was growing in which was a good sign. It has been almost 5 months since that shot of Lupron (his third was in august and it was his last), and his coat is BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Out of all of my ferrets, he looks the best. Now I am not sure that your yellow coat is the same thing, but try to watch if you ferret licks or chews that area a lot - after the vet told me that is waht it was, I watched connor and sure enough, he constantly was chewing those areas. Good luck Amy and the wicked three 12. Yellow Fur/Pediapred From: Melissa Date sent: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:33:35 -0500 Hi everyone, I'm quite behind on reading the FAIML but I noticed no one is addressing the "yellow fur" questions so I thought I'd pop in with a quick answer. It is common for white ferrets (or the white *on* ferrets) to turn yellowish. It's the oils in thier skin. Marshalls food is particularly high in fish oils. Don't know if the kind of oil makes a difference in the degree of yellowing. In any case it's nothing bad. Just "one of those things". Are you bathing your ferret? Over bathing will produce much more yellowing since it increases skin oil production. Mine never get bathed unless they get into something icky :) Since I stopped bathing them a couple of years ago, their skin has normalized, the smell has decreased, and my lighter one is significantly less yellow. It took several months for me to notice this difference. -Melissa Pediapred: A quick response to this too! I had a lot of trouble getting pedia pred about a month ago. Now I think my local pharmacies are re-stocked. I never heard any rumor that they were going to stop making it (which I understand has now been cleared up). However, I did have a very difficult time getting it then. I assumed it was just a local problem. Interesting now to see that it wasn't just me. Guess I'll be stocking up! :) -Melissa http://members.aol.com/NYCFerrets http://home.att.net/~The_Ferrets ----------------------- End of FAIML #362 -------------------------