From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, December 12, 1999 3:12 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #363; Dec. 12, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #363; Dec. 12, 1999 1. BUZZ - Update 5 - WOODY's Sick - Yellow Fur 2. nikki not eating again! 3. Lupron and Quincy; post-surgery question 4. Giving Pediapred; Update on Baby 5. Daisy Needs Lupron 6. Lupron 7. surgery first? 8. Yellowing Fur 9. Pediapred 10. Pediapred 11. Pediapred 12. PEDIAPRED ON LINE PURCHASE 13. Pediapred The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. BUZZ - Update 5 - WOODY's Sick - Yellow Fur From: jkerin@attorneygeneral.gov Date sent: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:49:50 -0500 Hello, Buzz is doing great (for Buzz) but I would like to tell you of some thoughts that are running around in my head. I know that if Buzz has lymphoma that he should stay on pedia pred, however I don't know that he has it. I really hate to have a seven year old ferret opened up to find out. I know that chances are he would be fine, but there are also chances the he would not be fine. I also hate to keep him on pedia pred if he doesn't have lymphoma. This morning I awoke to find that Woody is now sick. He did not throw up in his cage but within a half an hour of waking him up this morning, he went right to a usual sleeping spot and threw up it looks like four times. It was dark brown liquid (Buzz's was medium brown). Could this be some form of ECE? I say some form because Buzz never had green slime, but maybe his ulcer(s) kept his stool dark dark brown. I also would have thought that Woody would have showed symptoms sooner. My mom's is going to check on Woody to see if he threw up anymore. He did eat some duck soup before I went to work. Depending what she finds out, Woody will be on the way to the vet today. Could Woody & Buzz just have/have had the flu??? About the yellow fur. Abu and Pooh Bear have yellow fur this winter. Pooh Bear always did, but not as yellow as it is now. I also do not bath them but maybe 2 or 3 times a year and it's been awhile since the last bath. I was told that it is from oil and that you can dip them in peroxide diluted with water to get the yellow out. Like maybe a cup to a gallon. I did this to Pooh Bear before a show, it worked but I would NOT do it again or recommend doing it. It dried out his fur some, obviously, you are taking the oils out. I don't think it's worth it. Also, Abu and Pooh Bear are the softest ferrets of the bunch. Joy 2. nikki not eating again! From: "the delaney family" Date sent: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 21:51:26 -0500 i am pretty much a lurker, but i have a little insulinomic ferret who is on pred. she has been getting it regularly, but all of a sudden she just stopped eating again and seems dehydrated a little bit. we are going to give her some sub q fluids and force feed her some of her chicken gravy, but is there anything else i should do? i will also call the vet first thing tomarrow mornong. she was diagnosed almost a year ago.... how long do they usually live with insulinoma. the vet believes she is abou tsix, but she was a resue so we arne' tsure at all. ********************************************* Sue & the zoo http://www.geocities.com/petsburgh/fair/3016/ ICQ#: 44506107 ********************************************* 3. Lupron and Quincy; post-surgery question From: Jennifer McCaskill Date sent: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 10:14:47 -0500 Hi, everyone! We didn't have much luck with Lupron, either. Our oldest ferret, Quincy, is 7.5 years old. She had her left adrenal gland removed at age 5. Earlier this year, she started showing symptoms of adrenal problems again. Because of her age, we didn't want to have surgery done, so we decided to try Lupron. The only improvements we saw may very well have been wishful thinking on our part -- for a while, it looked like some new fur was trying to grow in, but only a few hairs. Overall, her fur just kept getting thinner, and her other symptoms kept getting worse. We finally decided to take a chance on surgery because she seemed so uncomfortable, and that seems to be helping -- she isn't as itchy and isn't grooming *everything* anymore. (Dr. Weiss only did the surgery last week, so of course we haven't seen the full benefits yet.) We had a really rough time with Quincy immediately after her surgery, and she spent half the weekend at an emergency vet clinic hooked up to an IV. (She was very weak and unresponsive on Saturday night; scared my husband and me half to death!) At this point she's doing much better. We're able to force-feed her some water, and she happily eats all the chicken gravy we give her. I don't think she's drinking on her own, though. Does anyone have any ideas about how to get her to start drinking water on her own again? We put a water bottle in her sick-ferret cage because that's what she's used to drinking out of, but she just doesn't seem interested in it. She licks a few drops off our fingertips, but completely ignores plain water in a dish or bottle. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Take care, Jennifer, Quincy, Marvin, Penny, and Xena ---------- Jennifer McCaskill jmccaski@gmu.edu 4. Giving Pedipred; Update on Baby From: JLGloer@aol.com Date sent: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:45:15 EST Mary, As for ideas on how to give the pediapred, Baby loves it taken out of a spoon mixed in with ferretone. She doesn't seem to even taste the pediapred when given this way and she's up and ready to take it at her set time as if the treat is on it's way. Update: We got Baby's results back from UT. They don't completely determine adrenal, but the vet is pretty sure it is adrenal along with the insulinoma. 171 Estradiol (normal 30-180) (also the vet told me for spayed females it should be really close to 30, and even at 40 they can start showing sign of being in heat) 17 OH Progesterone .85 (normal 0-.8) Androstenedione 10.1 (normal 0-15) We just took the blood yesterday from Chayse to compare to her last results. It should be interesting to see 6 months later how the numbers compare considering she has all the same symptoms again. The vet is going to start the Lupron soon on Chayse, but is not so sure she should attempt it with Baby. She will consult with a few colleques this week and see what they determine. She is afraid it will mess too much with the insulinoma too much. I hope all is well with your fuzzies! 5. Daisy Needs Lupron From: jkerin@attorneygeneral.gov Date sent: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:33:36 -0500 Hello, My Daisy needs Lupron. She's had both adrenals removed over the last year and she still has all symptoms of adrenals. My vet also has another patient that needs Lupron so he decided to buy it. Much to his and my dismay, the manufacturer is not selling it to "new" clients, only the vets that already had accounts. Something about legallities because it is not FDA approved for ferrets. My vet mentioned that not much is FDA approved for ferrets, but that don't seemed to matter. My vet called one place to get it and they are selling it for $200.00 a dose (rip off). He is presently trying to get it from a vet that has been buying it for $40.00 a dose. I hope this happens but if it does not, does anyone have suggestions about where else my vet can try? Also, Abu and Pooh Bear are sables that have a yellow undercoat. The only two out of thirteen. Also that they are eating Totally Ferret food and not Marshall's and they still have yellow fur. Joy 6. Lupron From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:04:31 -0500 > 3. Lupron Question > From: cinnamonpepper@worldnet.att.net > Date sent: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 20:37:09 -0500 > > her the 4 month Lupron injection. This was given on 10/20/99. To date she has > lost more hair and not regained any. Has anyone on the list had a ferret not > respond to the Lupron? Another question: if your fuzzie did respond how long > did it take for you to see improvement? Two of mine were started on the one-month Lupron (same drug, just needed more often) not quite six weeks ago. Spaz started showing signs of hair regrowth by the second week and right now he has grown in all of his undercoat. Beasley, on the other hand, has not shown any signs of improvement. Some respond beautifully and with others, it seems to have little effect. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 7. surgery first? From: "Butts, Jennifer" Date sent: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:04:35 -0500 Sorry, I normally don't do replies like this, but I feel the need to point out that both of you are only expressing your opinions about which one should be your first option or your last option. There is nothing that works for everyone, so surgery is only an option and the ferret's health, age, and history and the owner's personal beliefs would determine whether it should be considered first or last. However, Lisa did make a good point that with many diseases, surgery is the only option that can offer a cure, but in some instances when surgery would be a large risk, using medication can allow a longer, happier life. So this I guess is just a reminder that everyone should feel free to express their opinions, yet don't try to make someone else feel that they are wrong because your opinions differ from theirs :) We all can only draw on our own experiences and forums like this, I think are wonderful for expressing all sides of an issue so that we can learn from the information to use to our benefit. So in closing ;) I just want to thank all of you who participate in this list; I know I joined to get support for what my girl is going through, and hopefully some day I can use what I have learned to help someone else get through a rough time. Hugs to all your fuzzies! Jenna 8. Yellowing Fur From: "Penny LePage" Date sent: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:03:04 -0500 Hi to all just catching up on some reading and saw the item on yellowing fur. We have Snowball or lately I have been calling him my little Stuart Little!! In the summer he is snow white, in the winter when his coat changes his fur on his tail and by his ears turns a golden color. He eats Totally Ferret food, doesn't get a bath but during shedding season and is on no meds. The two ferrets we thought were in trouble because they lost the fur on their tails are back to normal. Thankfully it must have been stress do to we don't know what. Prayers to all the sick babies and their humans Penny 9. pediapred From: "Hill View Farm" Date sent: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 23:46:11 -0500 MODERATOR'S NOTE: This message was previously sent out on its own to the list and is being included in this list with the responding pediapred posts. Lynn Today I spent the day looking for Pediapred. I went through the yellow pages for three counties. I found a three pharmacies (out of 27) who had a little pediapred left. 10 ml at one, 60 ml at another and a whole bottle at another. I then had my Vet call in a prescription to each of them for what they had and then I spent the rest of the day running around picking it up. We go through a whole bottle a month with all of our guys with insulnomia. The smaller pharmacies seemed to have it where the bigger chains didn't. I also called Medeva Pharmaceuticals. The bottle has a Ft Worth, Tx address. Don't bother calling you wont get an answer. The company is in Rochester, NY and their phone number is ( 888 ) 963-3382. When I talked to their customer service they told me that the Texas part of the company was sold. They are producing a small amount of Pediapred later this week and hope to be back up to normal distribution at the end of this month or January. Bad news is that it is hard to find now. Good news is that its not gone forever. PLEASE read the label CAREFULLY if you use regular Prednisolsne or Prelone syrup they both contain alcohol. Please check with your Vet before you use them. Good hunting and if we can help in some way please e-mail us. Dave Bullock 10. pediapred From: teckart@oznet.ksu.edu Date sent: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:59:37 -0600 If anyone needs pediapred before the pharmacies are restocked, please let me know. You can also check with your local hospital in the pediatric dept as they get pediapred samples in 1 ounce bottles and they may be willing to donate them to your vet for you (then your vet gives them to you). It would be a good idea to contact the hospitals anyway as they may be throwing away this precious product as well as other pediatric supplies that we could use. Hugs to all. tle Troy Lynn Eckart Ferret Family Services http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~sprite/ffs.html http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Haven/5481/ Please sign up to support our charity http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?cid=46&mid=58395 11. Pediapred From: Troy Lynn Eckart Date sent: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:18:08 -0600 (CST) Morning Lynn - I was wondering if maybe all us ferret people are using more than they anticipated for human babies. That would be my guess anyway. I'm sure they didn't anticipate the I would use 12 bottles a year.... Hugs. tle Troy Lynn Eckart Ferret Family Services http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~sprite/ffs.html http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Haven/5481/ Please sign up to support our charity http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?cid=46&mid=58395 12. PEDIAPRED ON LINE PURCHASE From: Sue Davenport Date sent: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 08:54:28 -0500 Lynn/Dave Probably you checked this already but in case not: http://www.moreonline.com/pharmacy/ One other suggestion would be Fosters and Smith, the vet catalog that sells prescription dr-u-gs too. They sell Prednasone, don't know what types. Their 800 number is - 800-826-7206 I obtain the prednasone for my insulinoma ferret from The Medicine Shoppe. They make it up in a fish paste (has some additional nutritional supplementation). Perhaps they are another source, if you have not already tried that pharmacy line. Just found this too, apparently the Medeva brand is available through http://www.planetrx.com/product/rx/shelf/info/1884_introduction.asp Planetrx.com the online pharmacy. Prescription Drugs You must have a prescription from your doctor to purchase this drug. Prices below are pre-insurance. Name (Manufacturer) Strength / Form (Unit of Sale) Qty Price Pediapred (Medeva Pharm) 6.7mg/5 ml Liquid (120 ml Bottle) 1 $23.20 2 $40.90 13. Pediapred From: Sunshine Date sent: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 22:43:21 -0800 If you can't get it in your state I can ask my vet and see if he would be able to get a script and have them mail it to you. Never done this before, but love ferrets and would try. Debbie ----------------------- End of FAIML #363 -------------------------