From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 8:48 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@miamiferret.org Subject: FAIML #368; Dec. 28, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #368; Dec. 28, 1999 1. Urgent: Patch 2. Jade Elaine @->->- 3. Cleopatra losing tail fur and Oliver update 4. To Susan Jones 5. To Susan Jones The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Urgent: Patch From: dagger4u@home.com Date sent: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 08:59:25 -0800 Ok, here's the timeline. On the 17th December, my wired weasel, Patch, began having diarrea, and licking his chops, (like chewing bubble gum, alot of smacking.) A big muscle on the top of his head would twich while this "chewing gum" behavior happened. He became sort of lethargic. Normally he runs all over the place, but he was just more quiet. I watched him for a day, gave him laxatone in case of blockage, and waited till the 18th. No better, and he stopped eating his food. On the 18th, I gave him some cooked chicken, and he gobbled it up. However, when he took a bite, he would shake his head alot as if to rip up the food. The morning of the 19th, he was trying to eat his food, but he was doing the same "shaking of the head" routine and kept shaking it out of his mouth. I took him to the vet. She stated she wasn't sure what the problem was, so we put him on amoxicillin to see if that would help. We did blood work which essentially came back normal. He had an increase in Hemacrit, but only slightly. I am having the actual results faxed to me to see what exactly was done. By the 21st no change. He was not getting dehydrated, he was obviously drinking, not any more than normal though. I took him to my other vet, the surgeon. He started waving his hand in front of him, put him on the floor and he kind of ran into things. Not bad, but he kept hitting the waste basket. The vet said he wasn't sure how good he could see. Then he stated, after examination, that he felt this was signs of distemper. I was aghast since he had his shots and was up to date on all vaccinations. He said that in ferrets, distempter can be gradual, taking months to come on. He also said he probably had it before his vaccinations. (he had his shots on 2 Oct 99) So, they did the blood test for that (we are still awaiting the answer, it takes 10 days) He also took xrays to rule out blockage. Normal. Oh, Patch weighs 2.3 pounds. Now being the 27th, we are at a standstill, he hasn't gotten worse, in fact, he's eating his food now, without the head shaking thing. He still does the "chewing gum" behavior. His stools run from totally normal to runny. No green color or any signs of blood, no tarry or black stools, just loose. In fact, just this morning, he had 2 pretty big bowel movements that were firm and looked good. (as good as ferret poo can..:) ) He is still not running around though, and this is extremely odd for this ferret, who was my totally wired weasel. I have noticed that Patch has lost alittle weight, probably an ounce or so. Still 2 lbs though, but his back legs, or the rear end of him looks totally skinny. He is a very firm ferret (he's all muscle, not winter coat or winter fat this year) and he now looks off balance because of the hind end being skinny. He's not falling and still can walk without stumbling etc. Any kind of blood work, or tests or anything I can do to find out what the problem is, please let me know. He is a young ferret and I will move heaven and earth to get him back to normal. I feel that both my vets here are stumped. I don't know where to turn. Any responses would be helpful. Thank you for reading this long email. Sincerely, Kim and my sick Patch 2. Jade Elaine @->->- From: "Jadesun" Date sent: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 14:45:15 -0400 I haven't posted for a very long time. I've told a few close friends, but now I'm going to try my best not to cry and post publicly, and I want to do this before the new year. It's Jade Elaine he's gone Oh boy, I knew I couldn't do this without crying..... Jade's Adrenalectomy was scheduled for November 17th. The surgery was a great success, but when Debbie was closing him up, Jade Elaine went into cardiac arrest. Debbie tried to "hold" him, but Jade didn't want to be "held". Debbie called me at work to tell me the news, she was crying and I started crying. I was kind of in a shock mode. I left work and went home. When I walked into the house, it hit me hard. I sat for a bit, and then went to the vet to see Jade one last time. Debbie said I could stay with him for as long as I needed. I held him for a while and told him how much I loved him and that I would never, never forget him nor the impact that he has had in my life. I had him privately cremated and put into his apple urn. When my time comes to pass, we will be buried together. I owe Jade a lot ya know, he knew not to cross on my birthday, (16th). He had the good grace to leave me on what he though was the best/appropriate acceptable terms for me. I do not regret putting him through the surgery one iota, he needed that surgery for a better quality of life. It's been over a month now and I still find it extremely difficult to write and talk about him. A part of me died with Jade that will never be resurrected again. It doesn't mean that I will never love again, it's just that a part of me is gone that was Jade's and Jade's alone. Dai Mai, my little female, misses him terribly. It was heartbreaking to watch her look and look for Jade Elaine. After looking, Dai Mai would go to what was their sleepy sac and wait..... I did get another little ferret. I named her Amber-Lynn. I was a little frustrated with her at first, cause she didn't have the same likes, actions that Jade had. Now granted, I would be the 1st to admit that there will simply never, never be another Jade Elaine. But somewhere inside I wanted her to be Jade. The bond is setting in now for Amber-Lynn and I, and that's what I was longing for. She really is a darling little sweetie. She certainly is an original :o) The mould was definitely broken :o) I wanted so much for Jade to be with me this New Year's Eve. I guess in spirit he will be :o) I don't quite know what else to say, but believe me when I say this, I know Jade Elaine is alive and well in his place, and he's waiting for me. Until we meet again my precious boy, remember our promise, I love you and I will never, never forget you @->->- Jadesun @->->- Jadesun, Dai Mai n' Amber-Lynn terribly missing Jade Elaine :o( http://www3.nbnet.nb.ca/jadesun @->->- 3. Cleopatra losing tail fur and Oliver update From: "Emily Moon" Date sent: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 20:17:31 -0800 I've been away for a time because we just bought out 1st house.... If you will recall, Oliver had right adrenal surgery and the vet found a "cystic adrenal lesion" about four months ago. He's doing well! He hasn't needed any drugs or anything and has just started growing his tail fur back.... ....while our little Cleopatra is starting to lose hers!!! I do have a question (not just aimless rambling:). If a female ferret is losing tail fur, one of the first signs of adrenal disease, is it safe to just go in and do exploratory surgery? Do we have to get an ultrasound? She does not have any other sign of adrenal problems (at lease not that my experience-trained eye can see). I am bringing her to the vet on the 3rd. Is there a blood test the vet can do to determine if Cleo has a problem? I ask these things because the ultrasound we had done on Oliver didn't seem worth it to me. The vet was kind enough to let me watch, but no one there could pinpoint what exactly was wrong with Oli (right or left adrenal I mean). The ultrasound picture is SO hard to read and my vet actually had some other doc come in and explain to her what he saw (he had the equipment too). I didn't like the fact that they had to put little Oliver under for the ultrasound either. It was also quite expensive when coupled with the cost of the more expensive right adrenal surgery (over $500 total). I don't mean to sound like the care was poor because I am very happy to have my happy and healthy little guy back; I just don't want to do things that are unnecessary. I feel like I could have saved the money spent on the ultrasound to adopt more ferrets from the shelter; it's quite overcrowded. Any advice before January 3rd would be more than appreciated. Kindly, Emily, Oliver, Cleopatra, Bear, Puck, and hubby Jason. 4. To Susan Jones From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 20:26:57 -0500 >Can anybody give suggestions, comments as to why my older ferrets hate this >kit? and have seemingly made theirselves sick over the matter; and why the vet >says no food til diarreah is cleared up? Thanks for all your input! I can't tell you why they hate the kit, unless they somehow know that this kit gave them ECE. I can almost guarantee this is what they got from the kit... it's an all to common story. No food for four days is not only cruel, it could be deadly! What is the thinking here? I think it's time to get aggressive before it's too late. They don't feel like eating, but you have to be persistent. They're not eating because basically, they feel like hell. Gerber's 2nd stage chicken baby food is pretty good for emergency measures. Warm it slightly since ferrets who refuse it when it's at room temperature will often gobble it up when it's warm. Try feeding it off your finger. This often works when all other feeding methods fail. If they still won't take it, make 'em take it, a tiny bit at a time. They have to eat. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 5. To Susan Jones From: Linda.Doran@att.net Date sent: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 01:57:54 +0000 You must feed those babies! I can't believe your vet said to let them go without food. These are ferrets, not cats or dogs that have lots of extra weight. Give them Totally Ferret turned into duck soup with Nutrical or Ferretone or Timmy's Tonic or whatever mixed in -- they have to eat. A concerned Linda and fuzzies Lucky Charm, Chocolate Moose, & Zipper MODERATOR'S NOTE: Hi there. Just FYI to any who may be worried because the little guys didn't eat for awhile. I've written Susan, too, who's now working on getting her fur kids to eat. I suggested just warmed Gerber's for starters since is is very bland and digestible. She says they've been well hydrated all along. I've also sent her the ECE FAQ, which she's given to her vet who is very open to learning and consulting. It sounds like Susan's fur kids will be fine. Hope you don't mind me piping up Susan! We all just worry a tad bit about each other on this list, being a friendly group :)) And nobody means any of the messages to you as a criticism in any way, shape, or form, of you or your vet. Ferrety hugs, Lynn ----------------------- End of FAIML #378 -------------------------