From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Friday, December 31, 1999 10:05 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@miamiferret.org Subject: FAIML #370; Dec. 31, 1999 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #370; Dec. 31, 1999 Hi there. Happy New Year to you all. I hope it is happy.... I'm dealing with the loss of a car I really adored, but I heard about it while in a hotel in Alaska, early morning call from my husband about a hit and run to mine and his cars. When I heard his voice I thought something had happened to one of our fur kids... it sure put the car into perspective. Did I write this already? Perhaps; I've been under alot of stress. More importantly, we took our Wally in yesterday for an ultrasound as he had been vocalizing alot lately. He checked out except for his large right adrenal, which we are going to try and have removed the Thursday after next. He's been on meds for insulinoma for a long, long time and is very, very fat, so it will be a tough one, but I'm thankful he appears in good enough shape for us to try. His vet buddy, sweet Lemke (Lemke and his wonderful mom and dad often cross paths with me and Wally at our vets) got an ultrasound, too, and was discovered to have cardiomyopathy. Lem's been a FAIML fur kid for a long time and so my New Year's wish and prayer is for this special little fur kid, who has been through a whole lot, to have lots of quality time into 2000 and beyond with his loving unfurry mum and dad. Warm wishes and prayers to all our other fuzzies here, too. I really appreciate each and everyone of you, furry or unfurry, that make up our special group. So, as I always dorkily say. Fuzzy hugs! Lynn Mc. and the 2000 Gang of Five 1. Need Input 2. Update on Patch 4. More on Winnie 5. Dustie 6. Cleopatra and Oliver, Thanks Melissa 7. Reply: Urgent news on patch The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Need Input Date sent: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 07:39:26 -0500 From: katharine This is sort of adrenal related so I thought I would pose my concern to this list. Lily is currently undergoing chemotherapy for lymphoma. She is doing quite well so far and I've managed to keep her weight up (she's even gained weight) by giving her all the soup she wants twice a day. Her prednisone is mixed with it. Her vet is quite delighted by her weight gain as she should be losing weight by now. Lily is also on Lysodren for her adrenal problems; quite a mixture of very heavy-duty drugs going into her little system. Here's my concern. She is due for her annual vaccinations in January. Her vet wants to hold off so as not to put any more pressure on her system. I'm not so concerned about the rabies vaccination but not doing the distemper vaccination is bothering me. She's not really exposed to other ferrets but does go to the vets' office once a week for her chemo treatments. And, of course, her system is quite compromised while undergoing chemo. Her white cell count is staying at around 4000. That is very good; 2000 is when you start to worry and have to suspend treatment until the count rises again. She has a CBC prior to each IV chemo treatment (poor baby). In addition, I raise orphaned wildlife babies until they're ready to be released. I primarily do possums and squirrels, neither of which is a distemper risk (or rabies either, for that matter). I do plan, however, to start raising baby raccoons in the near future. Raccoons can contract rabies and distemper. I have had the complete pre-exposure rabies series. I'm protected, but will Lily be? Should I refuse baby raccoons (and other rabies prone animals) as a protective measure for Lily? There are others who can raise them. The ferrets don't come in direct contact with any of the baby wildlife but they're in the same house. I'm really in a quandary (sp?) about this and would love some input. Katharine 2. Update on Patch From: dagger4u@home.com Date sent: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 21:52:27 -0800 I made a command decision tonight about my little Patch. I am now even more convinced it's not distemper, especially after all the emails. I decided that it was stressful on him to be away from his other pals, locked away in a room with not a whole lot to do. So, against the vets advice, I have put him back in with his pals after days of solitude We have at least 3 more days until the results of this "distemper" test comes back. In my heart, I feel like that is way off. I figure, if he has it, he would have gotten worse by now...not better. I have watched his stools for the last two days.(well, i have been watching him closely since this all started, but even more so this last week) They have all be firm and of good color. His "chewing gum" behavior has decreased, although not gone all away. He is eating like a horse. Drinking normal it seems. His hind end is not as gaunt, but it's not normal yet. I will be giving him Kaopectate for the next 2 days to see if this makes a difference in the "gum" behavior, but all in all, he seems to be on the up and up. He is running around playing like normal again, he really missed his friends, and they missed him. I am going to ask vet #1 to run a fasting blood glucose to at least get a baseline in case of insulionoma. He will be getting it tomorrow. I am not sure to what extent to pursue what's taken place these last few weeks. I'll know more tomorrow. It will have been 24 hours that he'll have been back with his buddies. Maybe the stress of being away from them was contributing to whatever else was going on. Thanks for all the ideas. Please keep them coming. I would like to know specifically are there any other tests besides the fasting glucose that should be done. What about xrays of the head to r/o tumor? Is this way off? The neuro problems have me concerned. One day he can see, and the next he has problems. Are there ways to test for ulcer, or is it just guesswork? Agggg, i am talking in circles again, forgive me. I guess I am just worried that I have missed something. Thank you again, all of you, Sincerely, KIM and her furry bunch 3. More on Winnie From: EquineAmy@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:28:06 EST If you do'nt rememeber, I have been writing about winnie because I have been worried that her glucose is dropping but she has no signs of insulomnia besides her BG levels. I have been away and my mom has been watching her and she is doing wonderfully, except she is very bratty. Part of my problem is that if I go away she gets mad at me and won't leave my side when I get back. If I still "ignore" her and play with my others, she will poop right in front of me (thank god I don't go aweay too often). Anyway, she wouldn't play with the others until this morning. I* had to take her to another room and play for hours until she was happy- now she is back to her old self. But my real question is I was told that for insulomnia cases, Breweres yeast is good for them. I have some in powder form - can I give it to her? How much would I give? Is it safe for my others to have some too? Now another question - does anyone have ferrets who get the hiccups - Winnie has had them a lot in the past few weeks. Why would she be getting them so often? Thanks for you help Amy 4. Dustie From: Moxie Date sent: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:16:45 -0500 Hi Lynne, I've heard the rule is not to vaccinate ill animals. How is Dustie's temp? Shaking or little tremors can be a sign of fever. The only other time I've had experience with a ferret shaking, other than upon awakening, was with one who had an enlarged heart. I can tell by touch if a ferret has a temperature; otherwise you have to use a digital thermometer with some lubricant which they really hate and is very hard to do by yourself. It's a good idea to get used to what a ferret's normal temperature is by touch before they get sick. I'm sure others will have input on what else the shaking could mean. Hope Dustie feels better. Moxie and Chance -- * Page me online through my Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/949746 (go there and try it!) or, * Send me E-mail Express directly to my computer screen 949746@pager.mirabilis.com For downloading ICQ at http://www.icq.com/ For adding similar signatures to your e-mail go to: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html Moxie and Chance 5. Cleopatra and Oliver, Thanks Melissa From: "Emily Moon" Date sent: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:12:29 -0800 Melissa, Thank you! I really needed the reassurance that I'm not doing something wrong by believing the ultrasound is silly and unproductive (at least in my experience with our vet). My last vet blamed a lot of my "ferret beliefs" on neglect and his torment has stuck with me. An aside: One of the things the OLD vet scolded me for was not THROWING MY FERRET AGAINST THE WALL when he missed the litter box or bit a stranger (my little Oliver)!!!!! This vet is listed on several ferret Web sites as a "good" Seattle ferret vet. I appreciate the list and all the support you have given me. I think I will request that Cleopatra have the Tennessee lab when I go to the vet on the 3rd ($75 vs. $200 for the unproductive ultrasound). If all goes well, we will adopt another fuzzy with the money we save. The shelters in Seattle are very overcrowded! Cheers and thanks for the good deed. -Emily, Oliver, Cleopatra, Bear, Puck, and hubby Jason 6. Reply: Urgent news on patch From: EquineAmy@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:14:51 EST I wish I could help you more, but I can tell you a little about ulcers. My Winnie was poisoned almost 2 years ago. I was very lucky that she lived and had no side effects. Actually - lket me just tell everyone - be very careful - Winnie was poisioned by an Advil - she really liked the sweet coating and didn't even eat the white medicine part - but it almost killed her. Anyway, Winnie is doing well now, but the vet was afraid of ulcers so i had to give her tagamet (spelling??) \I bought it at a drug store but it was a pain to give. I belive I used 250mg pills that I cut into 10 pieces and she got 2 piees of it a day (morning and night). SHE HATED IT!!! I did figure out how to get it in though. What I did was crushed a piece with the back of a spoon and smothered it with ferretvite. Winnie would take a few licks from the medicated glob (which was on my finger) and then she would start to give a look like this doesn't taste right - so I would switch fingers. I had unmedicated on antoher finger. When she believed me again taht there was no medicine, I would swith back to the other finger and keep gong back and forth until she got all her meds in. It was a little time consuming, but she got all of her medicine in without a struggle. Hopet his helps you a little and I wish you a lot of luck. Amy ----------------------- End of FAIML #370 -------------------------