From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2000 3:16 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml Subject: FAIML #376; Jan. 16, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #376; Jan. 16, 2000 1. URGENT Hank and discollered area 2. Finally a call back for my Bandit 3. Symtoms of Pancreatitis? 4. Scooter My Little Dude-r 5. Ferret Adrenal Disease 6. Question on Lymphoma 7. JJ slips across the bridge 8. Re: various 9. Insulinoma without signs 10. Scooter My Little Dude-r 11. Re: FAIML #375; Jan. 11, 2000 12. kidney disease, adrenal surgery, etc. 13. Re: FAIML #375; Jan. 11, 2000 14. Ferrets 2000 The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. URGENT Hank and discollered area From: Emily Moon" Date sent: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:06:17 -0800 We just adopted two more ferrety children. One of them, Hank, is an albino. He has a sort of black and blue ring around his penis. What in the world could this be? Has anyone seen this before? Worried mom of 6, Emily (Pooh Bear, Oliver, Cleopatra, Puck, Theta Bera, and Hank) 2. Finally a call back for my Bandit From: "Michele" Date sent: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 11:34:28 -0500 Hello all of my fellow ferret lovers, I finally got a call back from my vet .. I called last wednesday while bandit was having a seizure with his insulinoma and the vet was with a patient so the receptionist told me the vet said not to increase the prednsione and she would call my pharmacy for the , diazoxide (Proglycem) but it would cost over $130 a month..well, it seems she was very badly informed from the vet..I called twice today right at 8:30am while Bandit was having yet another seizure and when I saw that an hour had passed by without a callback I called again and was umm kind of insistant to speak to the vet..He called me back in five minutes telling me why didnt I up the pred to .6cc's?? I said thats rather funny..your cherie told me you said I cannot..and had to have her call the pharmacy for the new med..hmmm whose lying to whom here?? I told the vet I never was told that nor was told why you cannot call me back..He was so nice to me and told me he will have to speak to his stafff again about taking messages..I was told today the following thing to do for Bandit.. I CAN increase the prednsione 2mg suspension given .5cc's twice a day to now .6cc's twice a day and that the new med is expensive BUT didnt I know it will last for 4-5 months? I did not and then asked if he was sure and was reassured it is for 4-5months..I forgot to ask if Bandit should still take the pred along with the new medicine because at the time he called me today I was so upset seeing bandit still seizuring and found it very hard to think rationaly.. I am glad I am going to at least try the new medicne using my Christmas money I was supposed to use for me but since I love Bandit more then me I am going to try the new med and will let all of you know how Bandit is doing.The vet did tell me it will take a week or so to have bandit's blood sugar become more regulated...Now I am kind of hesitant to call back again and ask if he should also get the prednsione ..but guess I have no choice.. I want to thank all of you once more your kindness and support did make a difference to me.. If anyone knows of a pharmacy that is less then $130 0r more please email me so I can continue with the new medicine and not have to discontinue it ..I know there is no cure for insulinoma but I wish there were more meds to help regualte the blood sugar then just prednisone or , diazoxide (Proglycem).. Take care all and hugs to you and your babies. Michele and bandit:>) ~To touch someone....You must first touch their heart~ 3. Symptoms of Pancreatitis? From: Lynn McIntosh Date sent: Sat., 15 Jan 2000 10:24:28 -0400 Hi. Our Wally came through surgery very well! The right adrenal was the size of a ping pong ball, though had shrunk by 2/3 from the time it was deemed inoperable two years ago. He'd been given Lysodren for some time. His left adrenal was left in but an insulinoma was removed and a third of the pancreas. This was all on Thursday and he has suprized us all. He is a very heavy guy who's been on meds for adrenal and insulinoma for about two years, and was not doing real well walking anymore. We only opted for surgery because he'd begun vocalizing and an ultrsound turned up a health heart but the huge adrenal. Our vet was more experienced in taking out right adrenals now so we went for it. I'm so proud of our Wally Bean! However, we didn't fast post-surgery as our vet said not to. Now I'm a bit worried because Wally was more lethargic today than Thursday or Friday. I'm not alarmed yet but would like to hear if others have seen this in ferrets with partial pancreatectomies. Also, what the signs of pancreatitis are. He's not had to be force fed and is going to the bathroom normally so I'm probably jumping the gun, but would rather wake up tomorrow with some info in my mailbox from you all *just in case*. Thank you and thank you from Wally, too! Lynn 4. Scooter My Little Dude-r From: "Mary Rogers" Date sent: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:44:40 -0600 I am so excited to report (especially after Wheeler's passing) that Scooter came through surgery with flying colors, yahooo! He's 4-ish, MF dark sable, full hood, so cute. His spleen was HUGE with growths. He also had the right adrenal taken out and hair balls. Bless his heart! We've only had him for about 8 weeks. Tissue was sent off and we should get a report in a few days. He had to stay overnight at the vets, but I was so glad to see that he was perky when we picked him up last night. He looks A LOT thinner, and weights less too, grin. I'm so glad we decided to go ahead with the surgery. I'm hoping that now we can give him a good quality life with lots of love. He got around fine before, but I know he didn't feel good sometimes (no wonder). He's already started moving things around in his cage. I hope he doesn't go too crazy until he gets the stitches out and have time out with the rest of the munchkins. We baby sat for him and some others with insulinoma over a year ago when the shelter mom went out of town. We fell in love with him, but didn't keep him because his cage mate had insulinoma and we had just adopted 8 at one time (went from 2 ferrets to 10) and were overwhelmed enough. So when the shelter mom called to say his cage mate passed and if we wanted him we jumped at the chance. I was so excited after a year of thinking about him. So now we have him and hopefully he'll have a long and happy life with us! Funny, after I talked to the vet and found out about the hair balls I went home and gave everyone a dose of kitty malt. We have never had a problem with hair balls before (adrenal, insulinoma, lymphosarcoma yes, but not hair balls). How often do you give them the hair ball remedy? Mary and The 14 Munchkins (missing Wheeler) Chico, Sadie, Harley, Pooh, Woozel, Daisy, Fruity, Emily, Summer, Bootsie, Oliver, Funny, Buffy and Scooter Rowdy, Tunny and Wheeler waiting at the bridge 5. Ferret Adrenal Disease From: Cathy.Pardue@cnalife.com Date sent: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:18:01 -0600 I got your e-mail address from Ferret Central website. I think my ferret may have this problem, but I have taken her to one vet already and he thinks she is just fat. He thought the lump I found under her top left teat was just a bruise because it was bluish. He suggested I put her on a diet, but said he would do a biopsy for lymphocarcinoma if I really wanted him to, but didn't want me to be mad if he didn't find anything. He also said there would be additional risk to putting her under anesthesia with her weight. I can't find a vet that is very familiar with ferrets in my area, even with the offices who have an exotic animal specialist. I live in Nashville, TN. Her weight gain has been dramatic, and she looks pot-bellied, not just fat. She is very lethargic, but still eats and drinks. She has lost most of the hair on her tail and has lost spots on her lower back and most of her lower abdomen. She is around 4 years old. Do you have any members in Tennessee who might be able to recommend a good vet? Up until now, I have only needed vaccinations, so I don't really have a regular vet. If you could give me any information or point me in the right direction, I would be very grateful. Thank you. Cathy Moderator's Note: Cathy has hooked up with a vet with help from a friend, the U. Tenn. and Dr. Bruce Williams, but would still welcome input on vets in her area. She's in Old Hickory, TN, in the east Nashville area. 6. Question on Lymphoma From: Kathouze@aol.com Date sent: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 19:07:12 EST My little lady Jasmine has Lymphoma,and I need some information.She's on a 1/2 cc of pred twice a day and I'd like to try an herbal remedy.Has anyone heard anything about Essiac,Rene Caisse's herbal formula,and have you given it with pred? Just want to make sure it's safe before using it.I thought her right adrenal would act up,but not expecting this.I've got the name of a vet that works with herbal remedies,but not until Monday.If you have any ideas,I'm open to hearing them.Thanks for any information sent my way. Sandy,Jasmine,Taz,Honey and Sugar 7. JJ slips across the bridge Date sent: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 16:07:54 -0800 From: "Amy C. Dempsey" I think that this has been my hardest letter to write yet. Its so hard to imagine that my beautiful little bouncing boy was healthy two days before Christmas and now is no longer with me. I had the gut feeling that something wasn't right when JJ did not bounce right back after having his spleen removed. My experience with ferrets and surgery is that they are back up and eating in hours - even after adrenal surgery!!! I spent two weeks carrying him around and syringe feeding him every meal. The results of the tissue samples came back on Friday that it was lymphoma and we had planned to start him on chemo right away. Tuesday night he passed away in my arms. JJ would have been 5 yrs. in March. He was the runt of the litter and was always my baby boy. He was a beautiful cinnamon, who was always timid. He was always small, but had suddenly had a growing spurt this year when I started letting him eat duck soup with the girls who have insulinoma. His favorite game was snorkeling under covers, sheet, and especially table clothes so he could knock things over!! Out of the 18 ferrets I have had the priveledge of belonging to, I have now lost 11 to cancer (one to heart disease and one to a centipede)! This is insane - especially since of my 5 remaining ferrets Little Bear has Insulinoma and Lymphoma, Odie has Insulinoma, Jack will have adrenal surgery next week and T-2 won't be far behind him. Only 1 of my ferrets does not appear to have any thing! Whats wrong with this picture. We have to find the cause! Granted Odie is 9.5 and Little Bear will be 9 in less than two weeks - but I have lost ferrets to cancer at 1.5 and most of them around 5 to 6 yrs. It breaks my heart to see my fur kids slip away and read of everyone elses similar dilemnas. What can we do to turn the tide? Amy and her 5 fur snakes in St. Croix and 13 fur angels at the rainbow bridge. 8. Re: various From: "Karen Purcell, DVM" Date sent: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 19:19:40 +0000 Linda, >SNIP>> > > Does anyone here know of any treatment at all to alleviate her condition or > prolong her life? Are there any medications to help with this? She's doing OK > so far, though sometimes she slips a little while running. It seems like every > time I turn around, one of my ferrets is dying of cancer or kidney failure. > Often k/d diet by Hill's can prolong their life, though I don't know how well the feline version will work in ferrets. Also, your vet may want you to supplement with Tumil-K, a potassium compound. > Oh, and I forgot to mention, another one of my ferrets, Chocolate Moose, is > now also showing elevated creatinine and specific gravity levels. > Actually, it is LOW specific gravity that reveals an inability to concentrate, not high. Normal for a ferret is usually above 1.040 Mary, > Can they have insulinoma and not show any signs? Yes. I've seen ferrets present for seizuring and near death with no clinical signs seen at all in the days preceding. It is not uncommon. > Kelly, > This is my first time posting on a mailing list, so I hope I do this right :) > I have seven ferrets, and have been through a lot of cancer related problems. > But I've never had one with adrenal and insulinoma at the same time...until > now. Is it all right to give prednisone and mitotane (or drenamin) at the same > time? Thanks for any help! It is not recommended to use mitotane in ferrets with insulinoma, due to its effects on blood sugar, especially as it has little success in controlling adrenal disease. Lynn, >SNIP> > > For those who have gone through pancreatic surgery, did your vet have your > ferret fast afterwards? Our vet said he should eat as soon as possible, but I > think I've heard otherwise so thought I'd ask. > I recommend fasting for 12 hours after pancreatic surgery, but do not restrict water intake. -Dr. Karen drkaren@world.std.com 9. Insulinoma without signs From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 00:54:20 -0500 >From: "Mary Rogers" >Date sent: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 10:07:08 -0600 > >Can they have insulinoma and not show any signs? Wheeler crossed the bridge >Saturday night laying on my chest. I'm so very sorry to hear about Wheeler. Yes, I believe they can have Insulinoma without any outward signs. My Spaz has had a low blood glucose (around 70 mg/dl) for almost two years now. I can't imagine that it's a normal reading for him. He's a VERY active ferret and gets no special treatment. It doesn't seem that he needs any. He has never exhibited even one of the usual symptoms of low blood glucose. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 10. Re: FAIML #375; Jan. 11, 2000 Date sent: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:56:09 -0500 From: Melissa >1. Please help -- Lucky Charm >From: Linda.Doran@att.net >Date sent: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 03:40:33 +0000 > >Tonight I learned that my wonderful, adorable, beloved fuzzy girl, Lucky >Charm, has kidney disease. I lost my first ferret, C-pi, to kidney failure and >I am devastated..... ....Does anyone here know of any treatment at all to >alleviate her condition or prolong her life? Are there any medications to help >with this?....... .....Oh, and I forgot to mention, another one of my ferrets, >Chocolate Moose, is now also showing elevated creatinine and specific gravity >levels. First and foremost let me state that I am not a vet. -Now that that's out of the way... you and your vet should try treating for an infection first. Sometimes a round of antibiotics (like Cipro) will clear the problem right up. You might want to try this on your other ferret w/ kidney signs as well. You can change a few environmental things: -Give filtered or bottled water if possible. -If your ferret isn't drinking much water, provide a bowl of water as well as a bottle, but you MUST change the water in the bowl and clean it out daily. -Keep the litterbox as clean as possible -Try switching her food: Now the food part is tricky. I've heard that a lower protien diet (but not too low) is less of a strain on the kidneys. I've also heard that this isn't true at all! Regardless, a more digestible form of protien should be easier on the kidneys (in theory). You might want to try giving Bob Church's Chicken Gravy as a daily treat. If your ferret handles it well, keep giving it. It's a pain to make but worth it if it helps. The Chicken Gravy is very high in protien, but my ferret (who had/has kidney problems) has not seemed to have any ill effects from a modified version of it (she has liver problems as well so she can't have all the fat in it). Her Creatinine levels keep coming back around .2 and her BUN is in the teens. She also gets subQ fluids twice a day at home. For more info on giving Sub-Q fluids at home, check out: http://home.att.net/~The_Ferrets -Melissa __________________________________ http://members.aol.com/NYCFerrets http://home.att.net/~The_Ferrets __________________________________ 11. kidney disease, adrenal surgery, etc. From: Clare Sebok Date sent: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 21:51:55 -0500 (EST) Hello, everyone. I haven't followed the list for a long time. My parents and aunt have all had serious illnesses in the past few months, and I've spent weeks in NJ taking care of them. In August, my dad's Parkinson's disease got much worse. He lost the ability to walk, and his mind is deteriorating. Then in October, my aunt had a craniotomy for removal of a subdural hematoma. Only a few weeks after my aunt's surgery, my mother was admitted to the hospital with congestive heart failure. Two days later she was taken by ambulance to a university hospital in Philadelphia to undergo open heart surgery at the age of 81. She had a very rough recovery, spending 7 weeks in hospitals and a rehab center. During this time the ferrets have been OK, although Bonnie and Charlie are overdue for their shots and Bridgett is slowing down. The Lupron shot she had in September didn't reverse the adrenal-related hair loss, so we should take her to Dr. Weiss to see if one of the other drugs would help her. She's had surgery twice, and I don't want her to go through it again. Buttercup is fine. Lupron really helped her--she has a beautiful coat and is very active. She turned 6 in early January. Linda, I'm sorry to hear about Lucky Charm's kidney disease. Do you think you could learn to give subcutaneous fluid injections? Extra fluids are the best treatment for kidney disease. Sometimes the fluids can reverse the disease; other times they just slow the progression. Kidney disease varies with the individual and with the underlying cause. Jerry died of kidney failure in 1997. We gave her all sorts of medicines to alleviate the symptoms. Dr. Weiss assured us that the fluids would prolong her life. At the time, he estimated that regular fluid injections would add about 2 months to her life. When Buttercup had a BUN of 88 about 14 months ago, we thought we wouldn't have her much longer. Bill started sub-q fluids, and after about a month, her BUN had gone way down. After several months of injections, her BUN was normal. As I mentioned above, she is now 6 years old and doing well. The sub-q fluids may or may not reverse the disease (it depends on what the underlying illness is) but it's the best treatment to try. Dialysis can be done for animals in some clinics, but the last I heard, the catheters cannot be used for an animal who weighs less than 15 pounds. There are many treatments to help with the side-effects of advanced kidney disease--let me know if you need this information. Lynn, I wish you and Wally the best of luck on Thursday morning. I hope everything goes well, and I wish him a speedy recovery. I know you must be very nervous tonight. Best wishes to both of you. Clare 12. Re: FAIML #375; Jan. 11, 2000 From: lynne wooldridge Date sent: Wed, 12 Jan 2000 20:31:11 -0600 Mary, I am very sorry to hear about your loss of Wheeler. I am glad though that he remained healthy and happy until the end. And, he had you with him and I know that was a comfort. I have not heard of tremors with insulinoma. Are the tremors fatal? Dustie has insulimona and he has been battling ece for two months. I want to be as aware as I can of any possible dangers to him at this time when he is so fragile. Again, I am so sorry about Wheeler. Losing one of these darling little creatures is heartbreaking. Lynne 13. Ferrets 2000 From: "Sam" Date sent: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 23:44:07 +1300 I'm planning on cross-posting his galore in an attempt to get word out about Ferrets 2000. The more people who know, the merrier! I thought this was suitable for FAIML, mainly because of some of the speakers - in particular Dr Bruce Williams. If you ever wanted to catch up with him *this* is the time! Many are interested in Timmys Tonic and similar treatments, so this would be the time to meet up with Gary Holowicki as well. Two birds, one stone... I'm realising just how few people know about Ferrets 2000, and I wanna meet *as many* fuzzy loving people as I can! What better way then all of us being in the same place, gathered at the Ferret and Firkin pub, gazing at the Black-Footed Ferrets and listening to such respected people as Dr. Bruce Williams, Bob Church, Gary Holowicki, Troy Lynn Eckart, Chris Mathis and Randy Belair. Not to mention (for those who frequent the Ferret Mailing List) a chance to meet the BIG guy himself who will be master of ceremonies for part of the event! I dunno about you guys, but it sounds like it's gonna be a brilliant time!! I've already booked my ticket, and will be booking the airfare once that pesky funding is available (oh joy, more 120 hour weeks LOL) Hopefully I'll get to meet all you guys there! What we need is for word of this to get around to everyone in the ferret community. Fill Toronto to the gills with ferret lovers! Let's take 'em by storm! http://www.ferretaid.org/ «--- for more information Sam ------- For those ferrets and owners that need our help... visit Ferrets In Need! at http://www.ferretfans.net/ ----------------------- End of FAIML #376 -------------------------