From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 2:10 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@miamiferret.org Subject: FAIML #388; Feb. 13, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #388; Feb. 13, 2000 1. URGENT - Kato 2. Baby - Insulinoma 3. Double List Member 4. Update on Lucky Charm 5. Chocolate Moose update 6. taking pred 7. A Good News Update 8. jack and little bear The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. URGENT - Kato From: XVDeathKnightVX@aol.com Date sent: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 19:54:11 EST Hi everyone, I have some bad news, but I am in need of some help here with my ferret, Kato. Here's the story. I took him out Friday night to play, and I noticed he wasn't his normal self. He didn't seem to active, and he would run, then stop and lay down, then he wouldn't move for a while before he tried to get up again..... Saturday morning when I refilled his food and water, he didnt come down to drink and eat as he usually does. So I took him out of his cage, and placed him on the ground. He tried to walk for a few steps, and then fell on his side. He didnt try to get up. I tried to get him to walk, to no avail. I got my step-dad to come in, and he's pretty smart. Well, he thinks it might be a virus or something. We put him in a shoebox with blankets to keep him warm. He still has an appitite, he eats and drinks. He urinates and defacates still, too. But he cant move. We tried to get him to walk again today, but he's just....limp. I dont know what the problem is, and I am going to take him to the vet tomorrow. Do you have any ideas or suggestions? Do you have any idea what the diagnosis would be? It would really help if someone could Email me back to let me know what could be going wrong with Kato. Thanks a bundle everyone! -Brian and Sickly Kato 2. Baby - Insulinoma From: JLGloer@aol.com Date sent: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 21:28:41 EST Hello all. I know it's been awhile since I have posted about Baby and Chayse, but there have been some family health problems going on and my mind hasn't been here to post recently. That is until Baby had a bad episode the other night with her Insulinoma. Wed. night when they got to roam the whole house instead of just the basement, Baby went into a spell and lost the use of her left side and started running into things as if she couldn't see them. Every time we got near her she tried to flee, but couldn't get far without the use of her left side. We got some sugar and food in her right away and about 30 minutes later she seemed to come out of it. Since then, she just hasn't seemed right. We took her to the vet on Thursday evening and she has dropped from 801 grams to 767 since the 8th of January. The vet gave us a high protein mix to supplement her normal feedings, but I haven't seen her eat her normal food it atleast a week. it took 2 days to even get her to take the protein drink on her own. We have tried egg, tuna, chicken, different meat baby foods and she has no interest in any of it. I also see her try and drink water from her bottle to shake her head and run from it. She is also rubbing her chin and digging at the carpet at the same time. When she eats the protein mix I have noticed the smacking and teeth grinding a little the last 2 days. (Chayse has loved the new vareity in foods and she needs to add weight, too so it won't hurt). Now they both have the diarrhea which I am sure is from the change in diet. Baby is sleeping a lot more than normal, too. Any ideas on getting her to eat on her own again. I am gone 10 hours a day at work and I'm afraid tomorrow when I get home she will have another episode from not eating. Both girls go in on Saturday for their second round of Lupron. I noticed drastic changes in their attitude until about 2 weeks ago. I had not seen them so loving in almost a year. I've noticed very little hair growth on both with the first round, so we are hoping for more this time. Also, thanks to everyone for this wonderful group, I have learned so much in just the few months I've been on it. And to all those who have lost those wonderful fuzzies, my heart goes out to you in your time of sorry. Just remember they were well loved while they were here and their memories will always be with you! Thanks in advance for any help with getting Baby to eat again. 3. Double List Member From: katharine Date sent: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:08:30 -0500 I am now officially a double member of this List. I've been dealing with Lily's adrenal disease (and now, lymphoma) but, now I have a new guy with insulinoma. He is 5 1/2-6 y.o. His owner took him in to be euthanized two days after he was diagnosed. My vet talked her into trying to place him. Guess who has him now? I couldn't bear having him euthanized when he's doing just fine. His name is Cedes (as in Mercedes). I don't really like it but don't want to change his name. He has enough to adjust to as it is. If I can think of something that sounds very similar to Cedes, I may do a little name change that, I hope, he won't notice. Any suggestion are most welcome. He's a light sable and very, very thin (1.9 lbs). He's been living on Friskies Ocean Flavor (Yum). He will continue to get the Friskies until I can wean him over to the good stuff. Right now, he's not interested in his kibble. He's eating A/D mixed with Gerber's chicken baby food. I finally have him eating it from a bowl. For a while, he would only eat it if I spoon-fed him. He's on 1/10cc of pred twice a day. He hasn't had any vaccinations in years. We'll deal with that in a while. His teeth are in terrible shape. That will be dealt with later also. Right now, my primary goal is to get the insulinoma under control. He hasn't had a seizure since he's been with me (since Thursday p.m.). He's caged separately and will remain so for a while. He's always been an only ferret and my 4 little terrorists may be a little much for him at first. His stools are formed but very, very soft. I think of chocolate pudding when I see them. Are there any special things I need to be doing? I did buy a bottle of Karo syrup to be prepared for a seizure. My vet said I only needed to call them when he seized if I couldn't bring him out of it. They want to see him next week so I'll take him when Lily goes for her chemo. I'll access the insulinoma sites. This is a new one for me. I have two theories as to why he came into my life... 1. My vet decided that I have dealt with every other ferret malady under the sun, so it's time for me to deal with insulinoma . 2. I have been craving some new wildlife babies to raise (my last ones were released New Year's Day, so it's been a very long time), and this is God's way of getting even . Any and all suggestions are welcome. Thanks in advance. Katharine 4. Update on Lucky Charm From: Linda.Doran@att.net Date sent: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 06:40:38 +0000 My beautiful baby Lucky Charm went in for another ultrasound today, her second in about a month, to look at her kidneys. She is a very sweet, beautiful silver mitt with a completely black nose and everyone thinks she is adorable. One of her kidneys still appears lumpy around the edges but it looks the same as it did a month ago and the internal structure of both kidneys looks good. We were originally going to do a kidney aspirate today but decided against it when a preliminary blood test on Tuesday showed her creatinine levels to have spiked up to 3.1, which is very high. We didn't want to risk damaging healthy kidney tissue if her kidneys were already seriously compromised. A month ago, her creatinine levels were above 1, which was also higher than normal. I have noticed that for the most part, she seems to have more energy and feel better after getting sub-Q injections, so she now gets them once a day. She doesn't like getting them -- it seems to bother her when the fluid spreads under her skin -- but overall she seems to tolerate them quite well. I called Dr. Weiss and he said that creatinine levels alone do not indicate kidney disease -- that BUNs are also elevated -- but he said that if she is feeling better after getting sub-Q injections, then she probably does some kind of kidney problem. He agreed that it would not be a good idea to do an aspirate if her kidneys are damaged. A urine culture came back negative a couple of weeks ago. Previous urinalyses did not reveal anything abnormal. Lucky Charm is still on Florinef (about 0.075 mg a day) and has been taking Florinef ever since her second adrenal was removed last August. I tried to wean her off of it a couple of times but she seemed to get a little wobbly, so by the second day I put her back on it. Dr. Wimsatt at Colorado State University warned that taking a ferret off of Florinef who needs the Florinef can actually lead to kidney failure, so now she gets her Florinef all the time and I don't even consider trying to reduce or eliminate the dosage. Instead of sticking a portion of a tablet at the back of her throat as I was doing for the first several months, I now grind it up with a mortar and pestle and mix it with a dollop of Ferretvite or Nutrical on the palm of my hand. I didn't want to risk having some of it get into her lungs, and she likes it mixed with Ferretvite -- she licks up the grains of Florinef and doesn't even notice them. I am wondering if there is anything else we should be checking. I don't have her other blood levels handy, but jI think they were all within normal range or my vet, Shirley Russman, likely would have said something. Today I caught Lucky Charm smacking her chops a bit for no apparent reason - - I don't know a better way to describe it -- and at her age, I worry about helicobacter (she's about 5). Can helicobacter cause kidney problems? How does one check for helicobacter? Let us know if you have any information. Thanks. Linda, Lucky Charm, Chocolate Moose, and Zipper 5. Chocolate Moose update From: Linda.Doran@att.net Date sent: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 07:02:38 +0000 Chocolate Moose had his second ultrasound today to try to determine which adrenal gland is diseased. He lost fur bilaterally late last year in two quarter- sized patches on either side of his spine near his rump. His first ultrasound was in December and didn't reveal anything. I scheduled exploratory surgery at Colorado State University in late December and then canceled it because all his fur grew back during the first half of December and the vets said there was a real possibility that if the disease were not advanced enough, even a surgeon might not be able to tell which adrenal gland to remove. Of course, I knew from reading the FML that he was just in remission and it was only a matter of time. In January, he seemed to grow more lethargic and we did a blood test that didn't turn up anything abnormal. I then opted to do a University of Tennessee adrenal panel. The results came back this week and they were positive for adrenal disease. But the ultrasound didn't turn up anything conclusive. My vets are now going to check with the University of Tennessee to see if there is any correlation between elevated adrenal values and the size of the diseased gland. We could see his kidneys, vena cava, intestines, stomach gas, and liver, but no sign of an adrenal gland. Both ultrasounds were conducted by people who have experience doing ultrasounds on ferrets and who have often been able to find diseased adrenal glands because usually, the diseased adrenal is enlarged and it stands out. Both ultrasounds showed a cyst in one of his kidneys, but nothing else of concern. The cyst -- a large dark spot bigger than the usual features in a kidney -- may not even be a cyst but may be an oversized collection sac that he was born with. At this point, I don't know what else to do except schedule another exploratory at CSU because the vets there have experience doing right adrenalectomies if the right adrenal gland is the one that happens to be affected. The only problem is I won't be available to take a week to go to Colorado until mid-March (spring break). I ordered Dr. Weiss' video showing how to do cryosurgery and one of the vets here is interested in looking at it when it arrives. Of course, that probably won't be in time to help Chocolate Moose because the vet would also have to buy the equipment to do the cryosurgery and there may not be a big enough market in Albuquerque to justify the expense. I would really like to have a vet here who can do the cryosurgery because I think it would be a lot easier on the ferret and Dr. Weiss has been getting such good results with it. If anyone has any information about this situation that may be of help, please let us know. Thanks. Linda, Chocolate Moose (Mom, I'm tired), Lucky Charm, and Zipper 6. taking pred From: WBarn96105@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:43:26 EST My maxie has insulinoma and I just put his pred med in a little syringe that I measure it out with and put the plastic syringe in his mouth and push.. he loves it!..also since he can't have sugar I give him plain soy mild in a little kitty bottle as a treat.. he loves it .. not too much though will give them diahreea... paula 7. A Good News Update From: Nancy Stephens Date sent: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 09:34:54 -0500 My sincerest condolences to all who have recently lost a beloved furry. With all the sad stories, I just wanted to drop a note to give people hope. My Popcorn is still going strong 1 year and 2+ months after almost having her put down due to extreme adrenal-induced psychotic behavior. She is a recurring adrenal and mildly insulinomic. She's on her 2nd Lupron shot - which was ~8 or 9 months ago (Dr. Weiss' dosage). I only treat her insulinoma by putting brewers yeast on her food. And the Lupron isn't just "keeping her going", it has returned her to a really good quality of life. She's 8 1/2 years old, and still gets up to run around and play every day. She's a little old lady who sleeps most of the time and tires easily, but she's still happy and healthy. Although she may not be a kamikaze any more, we still have to be careful not to leave unattended glasses sitting about! ;) She even has her beautiful albino coat back. I couldn't ask for more. :) Good luck to all of you and your little ones, - Nancy songbird@voicenet.com 8. jack and little bear From: Amy Claire Dempsey Date sent: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:21:39 -0400 I am happy to report that Jack is doing wonderfully. Its amazing to see how quickly they can bounce back. Since one adrenal was removed and most of the other we are have the Cortisol test ran just to make sure everything is okay. His blood sugar was a little high for the first couple of weeks after the surgery (because of the removal of the insulinomas) but has fallen back into normal ranges. He's following me around the house, racing me outside to the "little house" where my gym is and working out with me. I lift wieghts and he digs in my old wader and wet suits. The only change in him is that he seems to like to be held more now - all that attention - he got spoiled. I want to thank everyone for their thoughts and prayers. Little Bear is doing well and we celebrated her birthday with extra ferretone,and cuddles. She has been insulinomic for a year, has hugely swollen lymphnodes, a large tumor on her neck and is showing sign of adrenal cancer as well. But she is 9 years old now and still a fiesty little girl. She looks right at you when you call her name (now mind you she doesn't come), but she diffinetly knows who she is. Odie who is also insulinomic is doing extremely well too at 9 1/2 years. We would have never known Odie had insulinoma unless we had her blood sugar tested. It was off the scale low. She has never had a seizure, or even a blank look. With pred and proglycem her blood sugar stays in normal levels. Again I want to thank everyone on the list for all their support and caring. My heart goes out to everyone loosing their babies. Some times I dont think I can take anymore - but they are worth all we go through and more. Amy and her 5 fur snakes and 13 fur angels ----------------------- End of FAIML #388 -------------------------