From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2000 2:55 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@miamiferret.org Subject: FAIML #392; Feb. 27, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #392; Feb. 27, 2000 1. Heart Murmur 2. Insulinoma Surgery Question 3. Re: FAIML #391; Feb. 25, 2000 4. Second Adrenal Surgery 5. Responses on Phoebe & Harley The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET

in the body of the email. 1. Heart Murmur From: WGHOL@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:12:01 EST My Buster has developed a heart murmur and anemia and I was wondering if anyone has seen this in their ferret as a symptom of Lymphoma? He has had soft, seedy stools for several months now, which can become quite runny. He's been treated for bacterial infections and there is no sign of coccidia. He eats well, and has put on weight (he's 2.6 lbs. now from just under 2 lbs) and seems fine otherwise. The heart murmur was not present last month, and he has also developed a small cough...our next step is to check for lymphoma and I'd like to hear from anyone who may have had similar symptoms in their ferts... Wendi 2. Insulinoma Surgery Question From: "Melissa" Date sent: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:02:20 -0500 >2. Insulinoma Surgery Question >Date sent: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:13:32 -0600 >From: "Mary Rogers" > >He's my dark sable slinky. If you don't >hold on to him he'll slip through your hands :o) There are all different types of ferrets, just like people. There are some fat people and some thin people, and there are some fat ferrets and some naturally smaller and thinner ferrets. -However.... This just made me think. Has your vet checked for a possible partial intestinal blockage? I couldn't help but wonder if your ferret is so thin because he has a partial blockage and if *that's* what's causing the low blood sugar. Just a thought. As for pred. It does a lot of good. If your situation is regular insulinoma, you might want to start him on it if he's at the point where he's falling over. -Melissa __________________________________ http://members.aol.com/NYCFerrets http://home.att.net/~The_Ferrets __________________________________ 3. Re: FAIML #391; Feb. 25, 2000 From: "lynne wooldridge" Date sent: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:45:28 -0600 Brian, I cannot tell you what to do, but I don't know if you will ever feel that you completed the job of taking care of Kato, unless you pick him up and bury him. I think that it will provide closure for you. Do you have a place to bury him? If you live in an apartment, perhaps you could bury him at a friend's house. I know that someday I will lose my Dustie. I have been thinking of a pet cemetary or burying him in my yard. . . I am very sorry about your lose. Lynne 4. Second Adrenal Surgery From: "Lori M. Sulik" Date sent: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:30:24 -0500 Gail, > I have read a lot of your postings and I think most of you feel go for > it as soon as possible and not wait. I sure hope I am doing the > right thing. I just don't want to lose her during surgery or > post but hopefully will prolong her life for quite some time since > at this point she doesn't seem to have any other problems. Hey, don't sweat it. We feel like old pros now, what with 3 right adrenal surgeries under our belt now :) Couple of tricks we've learned has helped make this as easy on them as the lefts! You're better off having it done quickly -- the rights are harder to do, and they (our vet at least) clamp off part of the gland, not a full removal (too close to a big vein/artery to get it all). Twinkie's a total success. Chloe it didn't work for (was too swollen by the time we got surgery, so they couldn't clamp off enough, is the theory -- she's on Lupron now). Bea just had it on the 10th, so it's too soon to tell if it'll work for her. Removals of the left adrenals have all been handled very well by our critters (barely know they had surgery ;).. Rights were the hard ones.. Ask your vet about putting your critter on Pred right from the get-go. Both Twinkie & Chloe took the 2nd adrenal *very* hard. Seems like they were OK for a few days, but then would get very lethargic, weak, not wanting to eat, very sore, etc. Both of them went on Pred eventually, which perked them up nicely, and they're fine now. (were on pred once a day for a week, I believe). For Bea, we learned our lesson(s) and we had her on Pred right from the day of surgery -- *big* difference. I couldn't keep her quiet! Certainly didn't look like a critter who'd had surgery, much less right-adrenal surgery! Another tip -- make up some gruel (with nutrical, as long as she's not insulinomic), and feed her a few CCs at least twice a day. Seems to help remind them they want to eat. Also, watch closely to ensure your Phoebe is really eating/drinking after the surgery (standard MO, I know :) Good luck with Phoebe -- I'm sure she'll be just fine.. You're doing the right thing, having the surgery. Lupron isn't a cure. Lori 5. Responses on Phoebe & Harley From: Ferrets1st@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:13:38 EST In a message dated 2/25/00 2:30:28 AM Central Standard Time, faiml@uswest.net writes: << From: GMALLISON1@cs.com ...I was in search of another experienced vet who I found with many letters of recommendations, Dr. Kemmerer at WestEnd Animal Hospital in Newberry (just outside of Gainseville, FL). ...since surgery was definately an option for Phoebe that is what Dr. Kemmerer's 1st choice was. Phoebe and Gail, Tampa FL >> Gail, because you did you homework you have chosen one of the very best vets in the ferret community for Phoebe. Dr. K. has quite a reputation and an incredible amount of experience with ferrets. Having made an excellent choice, what you have to do now, is trust in your vet. If I were in your place, I would follow Dr. K.'s recommendations. This is not to say that you have any guarantees that everything will go perfectly in surgery, but you may rest assured that no matter what comes up during the surgery or what complications may be discovered, you will have one of the one of the most capable and experienced vets handling the situation. That is all any of us could hope for. < ...I would like to hear from those of you who have had the surgery for the insulinomas. My Fruity has insulinoma, but he's not a surgical candidate ...However, my Harley is a good candidate since he's 3-ish. ...The glucose was 58 ...I don't want to just put him on pred.... In the mean time I've been making sure that he eats chicken gravy twice a day. After surgery do the insulinomas come back? Do you still have to put them on pred? Is the recuperation like any other surgery? Any info would be greatly appreciated. << Mary, I would say exactly the same to you that I said to Gail above. Greg is one of the best vets for ferrets in the entire state (at least!), I have heard other local vets refer to him as a "genius" and an "amazing surgeon"...what more could you ask for? Trust Greg. If he wants to do Insulinoma surgery on Harley then great...go for it, I am sure it would be the best thing for Harley. Whether you realize it or not, Greg was one of the key reasons I felt so comfortable in adopting Harley and all the others to you. The most important thing for our beloved pets is that they have an excellent vet, you have one. You are welcome to call me anytime Mary, you have my number. I've been through Insulinoma surgeries several times…I run a shelter…it goes with the territory. Every case is different, so no one can say if Harley will still need meds. Insulinomas are not "simple" things, they may be large, they may be small, they may be too small to even see. Greg won't know until he sees the pancreas what needs to be done. If it is a single, sizeable tumor it can probably be easily removed. If it is a number of small tumors gathered on one "end or section" of the pancreas, Greg may opt to remove that section. If it turns out to be numerous small tumors scattered all over the pancreas then he may remove some or none, or Greg may have another technique for dealing with Insulinomas…I don't know since I've never had a lengthy conversation with him on surgical techniques as I have had with other vets. Whatever he finds, he'll handle the best way possible for Harley. Recovery times vary. Harley is young and strong, and he will have an excellent surgeon so he should do fine. The pancreas is a delicate organ and with a lesser vet I might have concerns, with Greg I don't. Harley may need pred after, I assume he will for a while at least because ferrets need to be weaned off the pred slowly once they have been on it. Or Greg may opt for proglycem. The insulinomas may come back, a lot of them do. But you have bought time, that is the purpose of the surgery. You may buy Harley years with the surgery. Don't be afraid of pred. It saves lives. They can go years leading a reasonably normal life on pred, otherwise it's a roller coaster and you run the risk of losing them when you are not there to catch an episode. When we see signs here of Insulinoma, we start with 1cc twice a day of Pediapred, monitor for a couple of weeks and adjust accordingly, sometimes we slowly decrease the pred but we don't usually drop it too low. I rarely give dosages of less than one-half cc. Pediapred stabilizes them. I have to wonder if Wheeler had been on a higher dose of pred what would have happened but it's not my place to say. Keep Harley on the soup (without the sugar/honey unless he is extremely unstable) and follow Greg's recommendations. Totally Ferret would be the best diet for Harley. It helps stabilize Insulinoma kids better than Iam's….in my experience. Insulinoma is not a death sentence, it just has to be monitored and properly managed. I have six here right now I am managing who have Insulinoma and several others at my two branch shelters that I monitor as well, with the proper care and medicines they are all leading normal lives. Another girl, Molly, came in at 4 years old with the most severe case of Insulinoma I had ever seen, she crashed on me regularly the first two weeks as my vet and I gradually upped her medicines to the maximum effective dose of Pediapred. Once we knew she was stable and had put on weight (very thin and on very poor diet upon arrival) we took her to surgery. That was many months ago, she's been fine since and is not on any meds at all. She leads a perfectly normal life and can be just as bouncy as the rest of them when she's so inclined. In fact, she and Sandy are romping in my bedroom as I am typing this. Sandy also has Insulinoma. I hope this helps you Mary. Call me anytime. I am sure Greg would be happy to answer your questions, too. That is his job, do not be afraid to ask. If you will check out Ferrets magazine you will find an article by Dr. Roger Kendrick on Insulinoma. there have been a couple of those by him in the last year in that magazine, he's addressed adrenal tumors, also. Kisses to Harley and Fruitloop. Trish Director, Ferrets First Rescue & Shelter ----------------------- End of FAIML #392 ------------------------