From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 1:56 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #401; March 18, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #401; March 18, 2000 1. Phoebe Adrenal Update 2. Spring Hair Regrowth 3. Urine test for adrenal 4. Update on Bandit; Dr. Williams e-mail? 5. misc responses 6. NY Vet Referral 7. Bob Church's Gravy? The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Phoebe Adrenal Update From: GMALLISON1@cs.com Date sent: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:47:15 EST Hi everyone! Wanted to give an update on Phoebe. Dr. Kemmerrer removed Phoebe's right adrenal on 2/22 and she is doing great. Her staples were removed about 2 weeks ago and another blood glucose was done which was normal. Since her left was removed a year ago Dr K. put her on 0.1mg Florinef 1/2tablet twice daily for 21 days then drop it down to once a day for 21 days. Phoebe had gained 1/2lb as of 2 weeks ago as is just now starting a pigment change where she is sprouting some hair on her belly. Still waiting for her back but I'm sure it's soon to come. Even though I had to make four , 4hr roundtrips this past month, it was well worth it. Dr. K is by far the best ferret vet I have ever found! Best of Luck to all of you and your fuzzies. Gail & Phoebe 2. Spring Hair Regrowth From: "Lisa Little" Date sent: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:12:25 -0500 Sandra this is just my opinion on Spring hair regrowth, I recently lost my Gabby girl to Adrenal problems. Just because everything on the outside looks good doesn't mean the inside looks good. Summer of 98 Gabby lost the hair on her belly and had more aggresive behavior her vulva swelled very slightly by the time she got her shots in September everything was back to normal and her fur had grown back.... same thing summer 99 except this time her vulva kept getting larger and the fur grew back but it was thin. She died after I got her the Lupron shot ...I waited too long. Her tumor was huge encasing her kidney and enlarged Adrenal. I think if I had known more and caught things sooner an opperation would have worked to prolong her life. Please learn by others mistakes, I know I've paid a high price for mine. That and have a vet that knows there way around the inside of a ferret! Lisa 3. Urine test for adrenal From: "Michael F. Janke" Date sent: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 03:35:30 -0500 >2. Adrenal Disease the Progression >From: "Barry Olanoff" >Date sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:06:20 -0500 > >He then came back and told me that he could diagnose that condition with a new >urine test. FUMAR stayed overnight and was hydrated with IV fluid until he got >urine. About 3 days later he said the test indicated adrenal disease. I asked Dr. Weiss about this new urine test and he said... "They may be talking about the urine creatinine:cortisol ratio. Its an old test. There was one paper from Cornell that talked about it. Its not a good test for this disease in the ferret (only for Cushings in the dog)." If there truly is some NEW test, please find out what it is and let us all know. For the ferrets, Mike * Michael F. Janke, mjanke@miamiferret.org * Secretary, South Florida Ferret Club & Rescue * A 501(c)3 not-for-profit corporation * * Shelter web site: http://www.miamiferret.org * Adrenal/Insulinoma web site: http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc 4. Update on Bandit; Dr. Williams e-mail? From: Cjbandit@aol.com Date sent: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 11:17:02 EST Hi everyone, I'm looking for Dr. Williams e-mail just wanted to talk to him about Lupron. I keep getting that nasty mail demon not sure what I'm doing wrong, does anybody know his e-mail. Update on Bandit: The vets reccommendation is to try the Lupron before opting for surgery. I'm not real comfortable with that what if the tumor is cancerous how would I know w/o surgery. Lupron is still so new nobody has any real answers: the results of the drug I was told overides the tumor and suppresses the over production of hormones, however, it does not shrink the tumor. It reverses all clinical symptoms-hairloss, muscle loss, and reduces an enlarged prostate( due to adrenals)-they started him on a 1month dose and want to recheck him then. I'm thinking I will pick him up today and in about a month or so take him to see DR. WEISS, still contemplating leaving him there and just having the surgery done there. Oh here I go again THINKING OUT LOUD- I'll keep you posted. Barry, I'm sure by now you have recieved several e-mails in regards to your questions. But to my knowlege the best test for Adrenal problems is the Tennessee Endocrine Panel your vet should be familiar with it. All the clinical signs yu described sound as if its adrenal problems. Ask your Dr. about Lupron I have not heard of any bad reactions i have heard Lysodern has negative side effects. I have learned alot on the web and from this wonderful site. Good Luck-the information is definately out there just surf around. Christina 5. misc responses From: "Mary L. McCarty" Date sent: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:00:04 -0500 >1. Update on Bandit >of Lupron. I thought surgery would be the way to go based on all the research >I've done and based on everyones experience who's had a ferret with Adrenal >Disease. She seems reluctant and says she would rather opt for the more >conservative treatment. I don't know I'm some what skeptical I just believe >surgery is inevitable anyway. Lupron I've heard mixed things about it and what >if its malignant then what??? You really don't have anyway of knowing unless You are correct that Lupron is primarily for ferrets that are not surgerical candidates. If you are fairly certain it's adrenal and the ferret is a good surgical candidate, than I would wholeheartedly say go for surgery. I don't know why this vet would recommend not going in, unless she doesn't have much experience doing adrenal surgeries. You may want to talk to the ferret vet at AMC (I've heard they have some great ferret vets there). >2. Adrenal Disease the Progression >He then came back and told me that he could diagnose that condition with a new >urine test. FUMAR stayed overnight and was hydrated with IV fluid until he got >urine. About 3 days later he said the test indicated adrenal disease. Can you please advise what the name of this new test is? If there's another test (perhaps cheaper than the U of TN blood panel), I sure would like to know about it. >The options given to me were surgery and possibly drug therapy. As I am >retired and on a fixed income I was not able to spend the money for an >ultrasound and surgery. He stated that drug therapy was available and was also >expensive.Neither was guaranteed to cure this disease and the drugs could be >toxic. Is there a way that your vet would let you make payments or perhaps swap something in exchange for some vet bills? Our one shelter does computer work in exchange for vet care and most vets do let you make payments if medical care is otherwise inaccessible. >have been told by others the only way to diagnose Adrenal Disease is by >Ultrasound, blood test or her vulva (which is fine). The only test that I know of is the hormone panel (which can be done at the University of TN and Cornell can also do the estradiol test, one of the hormones in the panel). If you want to diagnose via symptoms, a swollen vulva in females, aggressive sexual behavior, "marking" in males, hair loss, etc. are somethings to look for - please read the Adrenal FAQ on Ferret Central (www.ferretcentral.org) and check out Mike Janke's incredible Adrenal website at http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/. Ultrasounds can be done, but for adrenal diagnosis they are, in my opinion, not worth the money. >3. Spring Hair Regrowth >I posted a while back regarding Luella, my seven year old ferret who was >just starting to lose her hair a few months ago. She had no other symptoms but >hair loss which has progressed so she's now pretty bald. I was struggling >between surgery vs. Lupron. The Lupron was going to be logistically very >difficult for us since the vet is not near us, and I am short on time. Since I >am an anesthesiologist, I am accustomed to the idea of surgical therapy, so I >wanted to be sure I was not being too aggressive with my otherwise healthy but >older ferret by scheduling surgery for her. My vet, who elects to treat with >Lupron only when there are true contraindications to surgery, advised to wait >until the April or May to schedule her for surgery because she's sees a fair >percentage of ferrets who have adrenal hyperplasia that resolves with the >seasons. Luella was getting Seasonal hair regrowth is extremely common in adrenal ferrets, but don't be fooled. The adrenal problem is *not* going away, just the symptoms. Some people think 7 years old is too old for surgery, but that's a personal choice. If the ferret is healthy and you want to do surgery, why not? >Hello. My name is Stephanie and I am owned by 4 fuzzies with one watching over >me above. My dearest ferret Keegan has been diagnosed with Insulinoma. > She underwent the surgery to remove the infected half of her pancreas. She is >doing well for now. But I was told she would probably only live another year at >the most. Is this correct? Keegan was diagnosed last year with adrenal disease According to Dr. Weiss' study, a partial pancreatectomy has the best prognosis of about 2 additional years. This was done to my ferret, Skinny, who went 1.5 years after surgery before starting to exhibit signs of insulinoma again. He is currently on 0.5 cc of Pediapred while surgery is being looked into for a second time (he also has adrenal disease and just turned 6 years old today!) If during the surgery a partial pancreatectomy is not possible, then removal of the tumors is your next best option. Lastly, medical treatment only (i.e, Prednisone of some form and then eventually Proglycem when the pred stops becoming effective) is supposed to be the least effective treatment. Dietary changes (i.e., removal of surgary treats, high-protein supplements like a duck soup or chicken gravy, etc.) always help no matter what option you choose. >bad luck. The other 2 Kayla nd Maya are only 2. I have heard that early >spaying can cause the adrenal disease. Is this true? I rescued all my babies so I This is one of the theories, but there is no hard proof that early altering causes adrenal disease. Most likely, it is a combination of several items (like diet, environment, light cycles, etc.). >6. partial pancreas removals >I interviewed my vet today for a web page I'm making him and asked about his >experience performing surgery on insulinoma ferrets. He says he has done some >of those, but sometimes there is a problem with leakage when he removes some of >the nodules. He also said he prefers to treat with the more expensive drug >that is called for after pred. is no longer effective, the one that also starts with P. >He would use that drug alone instead of pred. if the client can afford it. He has I don't know what leakage he's referring to, but the other drug he is talking about is Proglycem. It is normally used after Prednisone is no longer effective and runs about $100 - $125 per bottle, depending on where you get it. >One great thing about my vet, he is always open to information I bring him and That's great! If you can't find a ferret knowledgable vet, than grow your own >7. Nutrical in Chicken Gravy >From: "Ann Barzda" Good post, Ann! Mary Mary McCarty-Houser, Director Pennsylvania Ferret Rescue Association of Centre County http://www.ferretrescue.com 6. NY Vet Referral From: "Francine Prager" ate sent: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 01:40:55 -0800 Hi Lynn, I use Dr. Quesenberry at the Animal Medical Center in N.Y.C....Dr. Rosenthal is no longer there. I wrote to Christina telling her a little about the hospital and gave her my phone number if she needed directions to get there. The place is quite expensive (I warned her :-). but she and the little fuzzy will be well taken care of. Francine Prager. 7. Bob Church's Gravy? From: Cjbandit@aol.com e sent: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 09:53:22 EST Hi, Can anybody tell me where I can find Bob Church's Chicken Gravy, Karo- Syrup or any other nutritious complements. Bandit is a very finicky eater and i thought these additions might help in proporiton to his regular food. The Karo- Syrup I would like to have on hand in case of an emergency. My vet mentioned something about AD and babyfood (chicken or turkey) and something called Nutrient Recovery-anyone ever heard of this and know where to get it?? Also been meaning to ask but always forget/ why do ferrets lick the salty areas of your body??? Bandit always seems to lick the crease in my elbow and then start nibbling. I always though it was a salt thing and it was normal, but i would like to know for sure. Christina ----------------------- End of FAIML #401 -------------------------