From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 2:20 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@miamiferret.org Subject: FAIML #407; April 2, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #407; April 2, 2000 Hi! I'm off to Alaska again, Anchorage, from April 4-8, so there won't be any FAIMLs during that time. I'll send one more out Monday before leaving. Hopefully we'll be automated one of these days so there won't be lags between lists while I'm gone. Michael Janke is helping with with majordomo, but I've been working ten-hour days getting ready for my work in Alaska, so I've let the ball drop on working with Michael to get the list on that software..... Glad to hear Trish was okay in the tornado! Lynn 1. Bubba 2. My sick ferret 3. My sick ferret 4. Insulinoma/ulcer question 5. UK Vet needed – 6. Yeast supplement 7. Yeast supplement- reply Dr. Murray 8. Last nights Tornados-Ft Worth & Dallas TX area The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Bubba From: Pgousie@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:11:02 EST My little Bubba-boy- my 6-yr old ferret and the love of my life- seems to have insulinoma. The tests aren't all in yet, but he has the classic symptoms: weight loss, staring at nothing, losing control of hind legs, shudders through his body which I suppose are convulsions. He won't eat much anymore either, and makes funny noises, smacking etc., with his mouth. If I hand feed him nutri-cal, he'll take about 5 dabs, maybe equalling a teaspoon, but he won't eat any of it if I leave it on a plate while I'm at work. If I'm home I can get him to take nutri-cal every five hours or so, and he seems to do pretty well- has energy and curiosity and playfulness. Unfortunately, I work at some distance from home and can't make it home at lunch. I keep thinking about this little guy going through convulsions and disorientation etc., because I'm not there to hand-feed him. Any advice anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated, including a)whether you think surgery is worth it in cases of insulinoma-does it buy much time? is it quality time? b) how much should you let these little guys suffer- how much of this is painful to them? where do you draw the line? c) are steroids, etc., going to help him much? what do you do for pain? Thanx for any help. Regards to all ferret-lovers. Pat Gousie 2. My sick ferret From: Lam101101@aol.com Date sent: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 13:34:04 EDT Dear Lynn McIntosh, Hi, my name is Laura, I understand that you probably get a ton of email, but I do not know what else to do, will you please help me? My ferret, Bear, has become ill within the past few weeks, and I don't feel that my current vet is overly familiar with ferrets. However, my funds are extremely limited and I am worried to make the next wrong move - every option takes the funds away from what later might be needed. In other words, I am despperately trying to make the right move from here forward. The situation is as follows: A few weeks ago, Bear got fleas, and soon became "sluggish," so I brought him to the vet. The gave him advantage for the fleas, but they also gave him a depomedrol injection (steroid shot?) beacuse they noticed he was ataxic in the rear (I had related his "sluggisness due tot he fleas). Anyhow, they said to feed him Ensure plus with some pet tinic (supplement) and call back in two weeks to see how he is doing. Well, a day later, Bear had extreme difficulty in walking. I brought Bear back to the vet two days later for some blood work and such. The vet called me later that day and said he suspected distemper, as that causes weakness in the hind legs. Bear's blood work showed that his white blood cell count was at a low 2000 - the vet explained it should be between 9000-20,000. The vet then said to call back in 3-5 days. I have since called the last vet Bear went to get his yearly shots information (to see if distemper was included), but they have yet to call me back. I called the vet after the 3-5 days to say Bear still can not walk properly, and that he's still "sluggish". The vet said I need to bring him to a specialist in Gainesville (closest to my location in Orlando, Fl) to have spinal tap done to confirm distemper - I sadly do not have the money for this, and it seems the only other option the vet has for me is to put Bear to sleep - I CAN NOT do this without knowing distemper is it! I know you can not help me with this, but hopefully you can help me with what my step should be, in which is affordable. See, I am not comfortable with the fact that the vet is not concerned with any other possibilities. He was going to email a few "vet friends" to see if they had any ohter ideas, but has said nothing since. The only reason the vet assumed disoemper is because Bear has extreme weakness in his back legs. Here are Bears symptoms: 1. Sluggish and slight depression 2. Difficulty in walking - hind legs not very "mobile" 3. Vet said extreme low white blood cell count Bears past symptoms that still occur (past vet said nothing to worry about): 1. feces "gluey" and/or "grainy", (like grains of sand) 2. constantly grinds his teeth, which my current vet already said this is unrelated (?). Anyhow, I understand you are probably very busy, but I would be ever so appreciatitve if you could suggest the next SMART move I should make to help Bear. Sincerely, Laura 3. My sick ferret From: Lam101101@aol.com Date sent: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 16:00:15 EDT Lynn, Thanks for responding, especially so quickly! As you asked, Bear is four years old. As for the other info you requested me to send, I am uncertain of what you meant (sorry). What did you mean by, "Then, if you'll send me a message with this info plus Bear's age, if he's been vaccinated for distemper, and what city/state you're in with a request for a vet reference, I'll post it." Did you mean Bear's symptoms? if so, here they are: Symptoms that began lately: 1. Sluggish and slight depression 2. Difficulty in walking - hind legs not very "mobile" 3. Vet said extreme low white blood cell count Bears past symptoms that still occur (past vet said nothing to worry about): 1. feces "gluey" and/or "grainy", (like grains of sand) 2. constantly grinds his teeth, which my current vet already said this is unrelated (?). As for the distemper shot, that is the info I am waiting on. The last vet I went to has been transferring info into their new computer system and are suppose to call me back when they find Bears info (?). I wish I knew for sure, but I normally just take Bear and request his "yearly shots". As for the vet reference, I live in Orlando, Fl. I would obviously be willing to take him elsewhere. Thanks again! Laura 4. Insulinoma/ulcer question From: "Dale Nupp" Date sent: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 07:21:44 -0400 Hello All: I posted last July about Chloe (the most perfect DEW in the whole wide world) who had adrenal symptoms. She had her surgery back then which slowed her down for about two days and she is now back in perfect health. Now, I'm in crisis mode again. I rushed my Odo to the emergency vet on Saturday night. Except for seizures, he has been experiencing all of the classic signs of insulinoma; drooling, lethargy, hind end weakness, lack of appetite, pawing at the mouth and weight loss. Since he is now shedding and loses weight every spring, I didn't think anything of it until he seemed to drop weight dramatically over the past few days. All of these signs have been occuring only over the past few days. I got a call from the emergency vet at 3:00am this morning who said that the blood work was indicitive of insulinomas. In my sleep, I didn't think to ask what the number was. The emergency vet also said that he thought Odo may have stomach ulcers. I guess my first question is if anyone has ferrets that have stomach ulcers. If they hurt from eating and stop eating, would that mimic the signs of insulinoma? I won't actually be abe to talk to my regular ferret vet until Tuesday so I want to be prepared to talk to him. I looked at all of the info at Ferret Central and miamiferret about insulinoma and I was not quite sure if surgery is the best option or if medication is the preferred beginning treatment. Any thoughts? Odo is four years old and is in otherwise good health and my ferret vet is an experienced surgeon so I am willing to have the surgery if that is the best option. Any help would be appreciated. Dale 5. UK Vet needed – From: Zatsusan@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:45:05 EST Hi all, I'm quite a new member here so please forgive my ignorances. I'm trying to learn as quick as possible about the various adrenal symptoms etc. My 3yr old Tally, had his spleen and his left adrenal gland removed a month ago. I took him to an exotic specialist vet but I really need a ferret vet. Tally originally went in to have the spleen removed and then at the last minute, I asked the vet to check on the adrenals as Tally had a bare patch on his right arm. The left was the size of a golfball. Trouble is, what do I do now? The scariest part was when the vet told me (a week later!) that he could lapse into a coma in the first month of recovery. Total nightmare, he was checked on by friends and neighbours while I was at work and seems okay-ish now. Sorry this is such a long post. If anyone at all knows of a fert vet anywhere in the UK, please tell me. Any advice would be very gratefully received! Luv Susan, Tally, Bailey and Fane. 6. Yeast supplement From: "Glenn Johnson" Date sent: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 20:14:08 -0700 Friends of the Ferret,  I have an observation concerning the use of a yeast (chromium) supplement for insulinomic ferrets. But to get to the bottom line, I first need to provide a little history.  In late December, 1998, my Chuki (then 5.5 years old) had pancreas surgery. Since his glucose level remained low after surgery, I started him on a simple hi- protein supplement, 3 times a day. I also started to maintain a faithful and accurate record of his activity for each and every day. At month's end, it was averaged, and I now know exactly how long he was moving and active for any given day.  He did extremely well with only the diet, no medication, until November, 1999. Then the energy level started to fall and in January of 2000, after a fasting glucose reading in the 60's, I started him on Pediapred at .4mg twice a day and added yeast twice daily to his hi-protein supplement. Not the usually recommended 1/4 tsp, but about half of that. I did that not so much with the expectation of great things, but with the thought that it might help and "can't hurt".  But then, in FAIML 402 , there was a post to the effect that there be might be harm, insomuch as yeast lowers the glucose level after a meal. So Chuki had his last yeast on March 23, 2000. Now we can get to the figures!  Daily average active time in hours and tenths of hours:  For December, 1999 2.51  January 2000 2.40 ( pred and yeast started Jan 26)  February 2000 2.55 For March, thru the 23rd 2.49 For March, 24th-31st 2.72  By the day, March 16th through the 23rd: 2.75 2.16 2.33 2.50 2.58 2.58 2.25 2.42  By the day, March 24th through the 31st: 2.83 2.83 2.50 2.83 2.75 2.66 2.58 2.75  Nothing else was changed. Will it stay this way? I wish I knew. Should anyone wish further details, just email me.  For what it's worth.......  God bless our ferrets,   Glenn and Chuki  PS for Dear Lynn. I'm using Eudora Pro and it is NOT user friendly. Should the formatting be a mess, please simply trash it and let me know. Thank you!  7. Yeast supplement- reply Dr. Murray From: "Glenn Johnson" Date sent: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 14:10:51 -0700 Lynn, a copy of my yeast supplement post also went to Dr. Murray, who responded as follows. >From: AFERRETVET@cs.com >Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 15:44:49 EST >Subject: Re: Yeast supplement >To: johno@ctaz.com >X-Mailer: CompuServe 2000 32-bit sub 101 > >Thanks Glenn, > >That is very interesting. >The new "Veterinary Medicine" magazine (March 2000) has >an article about using Chromium and Vanadium (vanadyl sulfate) >in treating diabetic cats. Of course diabetes is just the opposite >of insulinoma. In diabetes you have high blood glucose levels that >you are trying to lower by giving Chromium and/or Vanadium. >In the chromium section it says," the nutitional supplement chromium >picolinate LOWERED concentrations of blood glucose, glycosylated >hemoglobin, and cholesterol; it also reduced the need for insulin and >other oral hypoglycemic medications in about 70% of diabetics." >Again the opposite of what we want for an insulinoma ferret! >Actually we want something to RAISE blood glucose levels. >That is why we give pediapred and proglycem. >Thanks- Jerry Murray,DVM. >P.S. yes it is fine to forward this to the FAIML. 8. Last nights Tornados-Ft Worth & Dallas TX area From: Ferrets1st@aol.com Date sent: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:26:50 EST In case anyone is concerned, here is some info on last nights storms here. Tornados ripped through Ft Worth last night. I happened to be near that area. Parts of downtown were totally destroyed, mostly large buildings were destroyed or suffered heavy damage (banks, atty's buildings, the Tandy Center, and many small businesses were destroyed). Downtown Ft Worth looks like a war zone. I happened to be working with a rehabber, about a mile (maybe a mile and a half) south of that tornado. Another one hit just south of where I was but did much less damage. Tornados ripped through Arlington, Grand Prarie and southern Dallas county, too. The news this morning says there were 6 touchdowns confirmed in the Dallas/Ft Worth metroplex area. Downtown FW was the worst hit, there is glass and debris everywhere. The police have the entire area closed off, one of the main reasons is there is so much broken glass in the high-rises just waiting for a gust of wind to dislodge pieces. One newscaster just said that years ago he had seen an incident after a hurricane in Houston, after the storm and wind had died down a large piece of glass somehow dislodged and fell 20 stories and went through the hood of a car and the *engine*. As usual the storm came though Weatherford and the area I live first, then went through Ft Worth, etc. I waited out the storm before driving home. Upon arriving home all seemed okay, nothing was damaged and fuzzies were sleeping peacefully. So, we are all okay here. News this morning is saying 4 dead so far, over 100 injured. The storm hit between 6:00 and 6:30pm. Many people were downtown at restaurants and such, some were in the office buildings working late. Most took cover when they heard reports of the storm and when the warning sirens sounded. I am sure you will be hearing of the devastation of this storm in your local areas soon, if you have not already. Kisses to the fuzzies, Trish ----------------------- End of FAIML #407 -------------------------