From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 2:30 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@miamiferret.org Subject: FAIML #409; April 9, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #409; April 9, 2000 Hi! I'm back from work in Alaska, and it was a truly magnificent trip. Though the Northern Lights were out one night and I missed them! Of all stupid things I was in a karaoke bar waiting to sing a song while they were dazzling the sky... and I never did get to sing the song anyway. I've been waiting and waiting to see the Northern Lights.... Alaska is truly spectacular and I was lucky to meet many really great people through the training I coordinated. Also, thanks to those who sent well wishes and prayers to Wally. He's walking much better now! What a wonderful surprise that was. And, my car didn't get hit and run and totalled like last time I was in Alaska, so I had a nice long drive in the Seattle sunshine today. :)) Fuzzy hugs to you all. Lynn 1. can anyone out there help??? 2. Reply: FAIML #407; April 2, 2000 3. Brewers Yeast or Chromium? 4. yeast 5. ferrets need a home The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. can anyone out there help??? From: Putorius@aol.com Date sent: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 13:17:01 EDT Blizzard, our dark eyed white was operated on last year for adrenal tumours (they were malignant). Since that time he has recoverd to his old hale and hearty (and wild) self. This spring, as he and the rest of the tangle started their annual weight loss...his just kept on going...to the point where we had to take him in again (fearing the worst of course). He started to vomit and kept it up for several days on an in frequent but regular basis. We rehydrated...he ate and threw up. No scratching at this mouth...just tired. We took him in to the vets (she is ferret rated!) Xrays done...OK. Blood panel (standard ferret panel) has brought us nothing although the white cell count is a little on the high side of acceptibility. His activity was only about 15 minutes and then he would be back in the sack. When up he is attentive, playing and chortling... just skinny! (2.8 pounds is his usual weight and hes down to 2.0). We were down to exploratory surg and I did not want to do that unless it was a last ditch effort...AND then he kinda rebounded...more activity, no weight gain but stable where he is... So weve been feeding him duck soup and generally fawning over him every 2-4 hours around the clock, have him on a round of antibiotics (amoxy) and he seems to have perked up (the caloric intact is helping). As I said, his weight is stable. He drinks on his own and upon further observation...and here's the kicker...it became apparent that he is hungry and trying to eat...he takes solid food (crunchies and the like) and picks it up and moves it to a eating place...promptly drops it and returns for more. Raisin treats can only be eaten if cut into small pieces and then he chews like a dog with peanut butter in its mouth...VERY ANIMATED! This is frustrating to say the least...it appears he wants food (which is great news) but is having difficulty chewing and swallowing hard food...no pain evident, his mouth and teeth look OK (by vet check), his throat glands appear normal...HELP!!! Oh, he's urinating and poopin OK> One note of interest...he is grinding his teeth a bit and "smotching" even when not eating (or trying to). The poor little guy actively takes all soft food (ferretvite, ferretone, duck soup, ensure) offered by syringe but just can't seem to take it (well he does that) and CHEW IT from the food bowl. Any ideas out there??? P and the tangle of 11 2. Reply: FAIML #407; April 2, 2000 From: "Melissa" Date sent: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 13:55:26 -0400 >1. Bubba >From: Pgousie@aol.com >Date sent: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:11:02 EST > >My little Bubba-boy- my 6-yr old ferret and the love of my life- seems to >have >insulinoma.........symptoms: weight loss, staring at nothing, losing >control of hind legs, shudders....won't eat >much anymore..... and makes >funny noises, smacking etc., with his mouth. It could be insulinoma but it also sounds like a partial blockage and or ulcers which could cause low blood sugar from lack of eating. Check out the Helicobacter and ECE FAQs at http://www.ferretcentral.org for more information on ulcers. Definitely have your vet do an x-ray to rule out a partial blockage, and make sure you're seeing someone who is very experienced w/ ferrets. You mentioned you're feeding him a lot of nutrical. If it *is* insulinoma the nutrical may be doing more harm than good. It's got way too much sugar in it. I understand you're trying to get some nutrients into him, but he needs to be having high protien food (maybe Bob's chicken gravy recipes or baby food) and NO sugar. The sugar may make him feel better initially, but then it will crash him and make him much worse. Don't even leave it for him when you're not home. Leave him some high protien food that he likes. In my opinion, if it is insulinoma, surgery is best if the ferret is strong enough for it. DO get back to the vet though asap and rule out the other possiblilties. -Melissa >2. My sick ferret >From: Lam101101@aol.com >Date sent: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 13:34:04 EDT > As you asked, Bear is four >years old. .....Symptoms that began >lately: 1. Sluggish and slight depression 2. Difficulty in walking - >hind legs >not very "mobile" 3. Vet said extreme low white blood cell count Bears past >symptoms that still occur (past vet said nothing to worry about): 1. feces >"gluey" and/or "grainy", (like grains of sand) 2. constantly grinds his teeth, >which my current vet already said this is unrelated (?). ......As for the vet >reference, I live in Orlando, Fl. I would obviously be willing to take him >elsewhere. The grinding teeth and gluey/grainy stools suggest digestive problems. It's important to determine the cause, but in the meantime, you may be able to treat the symptoms. Check out the Helicobacter and ECE FAQs at http://www.ferretcentral.org for some treatment ideas. Further treatment may be indicated depending on what's really causing all of this and it could be any number of things, but it's a start. I'm hoping some of the Florida people have already contacted you with vets, but if not, ferretcentral also has a vet listing by state. You may be able to find some names there. If you haven't found a vet yet, please post your request again. As yo know it is very important to find someone who really knows what they're doing so they can really pinpoint the cause -and hopefully save you money in the long run by not having you waste money on the wrong tests and treatments. >4. Insulinoma/ulcer question >From: "Dale Nupp" >Date sent: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 07:21:44 -0400 >.....I rushed my Odo to the emergency vet on Saturday night. >Except for seizures, he has been experiencing all of the classic signs of >insulinoma; drooling, lethargy, hind end weakness, lack of appetite, >pawing at >the mouth and weight loss.......he seemed to drop weight dramatically >over the past few days. >.....I got a call from the emergency vet at 3:00am this morning who said >that the >blood work was indicitive of insulinomas. ........The emergency vet also >said that he thought Odo may >have stomach ulcers. > >I guess my first question is if anyone has ferrets that have stomach >ulcers. If >they hurt from eating and stop eating, would that mimic the signs of >insulinoma? Yes! I feel like I'm posting the same reply over and over today :0) If your ferret is eating less it could cause low blood sugar. Make sure your vet does an xray to rule out a partial blockage. That would be my first concern given the sudden weight loss. Also look over the Helicobacter and ECE FAQs at http://www.ferretcentral.org for ulcer treatments. I think surgery is a good way to go for insulinomas (if that's what's wrong) if the ferret is in good shape, but this sounds more like a possible blockage to me. >5. UK Vet needed – >From: Zatsusan@aol.com >Date sent: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:45:05 EST >....If anyone at all knows of a fert vet anywhere in the UK, >please tell me. Any advice would be very gratefully received! Are you in touch with any of the ferret clubs or organizations in the UK? If not, let me know. I think I have them listed somewhere but I'm not sure where right now! They might be able to put you in touch with a more knowledgeable vet. -Melissa 3. Brewers Yeast or Chromium? From: "Mary Rogers" Date sent: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:26:38 -0500 OK, you're trying to confuse me! I've heard/read that you are suppose to give Brewers Yeast to insulinomic ferrets. I know there is still controversy on the use of Chromium picolinate. (I wasn't aware that Chromium was a yeast.) Clarification please! I'm already having enough trouble with Bob's chicken gravy on whether to put in the Nutrical or honey! Thanks, Mary 4. yeast From: "Glenn Johnson" Date sent: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 11:40:05 -0700 Hi Barbara, >Please clarify the yeast business for me - - I will stop it immediately >if it is lowering his b.s. Many thanks. I wish I could! My post to the FAIML, which may have lost all formatting by time it got to you (it did with my copy) was very difficult to read. It said that my Chuki, who is insulinomic, was getting yeast twice a day, along with his pediapred and hi-protein diet. The amount of yeast was actually less than the usual recommendation of 1/4 teaspoon twice a day. Dr. Murray's FAIML post 402, cites Science Diet and Iam's as a source for his statement that yeast (chromium) is used to treat diabetic dogs (diabetic=high blood sugar), to lower the blood sugar, and may indeed be harmful if given to a ferret that is already suffering from low blood sugar. Because I have kept a faithful and accurate record of Chuki's activity level, it was easy to see that withdrawing the yeast resulted in an unmistakable increase in energy. But this is one experience, with one ferret. I am not a vet and I cannot presume to advise others. Our very best wishes for you and your Bodhih. Glenn and Chuki MODERATOR'S NOTE: Sorry the message got scrambled Glenn. I'm not sure what happened; it looked fine when I sent it out. Lynn 5. ferrets need a home From: "Darla Callender CGS UG" Date sent: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 08:15:03 -0400 Hi to all. I have a small request to ask any of you. I have a co-worker who asked me if I knew anyone who would be interested in these two ferrets whom his sister owns. I told him I would try and ask some of the people I knew who had ferrets. Maybe someone is looking for some. (I wish I could but the funds are extremely low for me now!). Here is my original message from him: Darla, Here's the answer to your questions, thanks for the assistance. If you post this you can put my phone number on it, (248)328-0951 or 753-3644. These are my sister's in Pennsylvannia but she is coming up here for the weekend April 14th and could bring them. With that, if this were to happen it probably would have to be pretty quick. Thanks again. Mark They are a male and female, female born Nov 1998, male born Jan 1999. They have both had their shots, spayed and neutered, and descented. Good with cats. Male turned solid silver this past winter, then shed it all. Two Ferrets for sale asking $250 for both plus a 2 story cage, litter boxes, feeder and water bottle, shampoo and ear cleaner. It's all you need to keep them healthy and happy. I will also be available to contact if anyone needs too. e-mail: fzvmff@tpc.natp.gmeds.com phone: work/(248)753-0562 and home/(248)618- 0291 Thanks very much! Sincerely, Darla ----------------------- End of FAIML #409 -------------------------