From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 10:28 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@miamiferret.org Subject: FAIML #410; April 11, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #410; April 11, 2000 Hi. Sorry about the muddled list that went out by mistake. I can't wait until I can get the list automated! Just need to take the time to study a bit... Lynn 1. Re: FAIML #409; April 9, 2000 2. adrenal ferret question 3. Help/Chromium, Brewer's Yeast, and Blood Glucose 4. Lucky Charm: Seeking vet recommendations 5. sending Rascal Over the Rainbow Bridge 6. sending Rascal Over the Rainbow Bridge 7. FAIML #409; April 9, 2000 8. brewer's yeast/chromium 9. FAIML #409; April 9, 2000 (Chromium) The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Re: FAIML #409; April 9, 2000 From: Rikkie2000@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:02:50 EDT To "can anyone help out there". My 5 year old also quickly lost 4 0z in one week. He seemed to have great difficulty in chewing and kept rubbing his face on the floor. He spent 3 days at the vets, and after a battery of tests nothing conclusive was found. I will note however, that he had his annual shots the Monday before I took him in for the weight loss. He was on antibiotics for 10 days and came around very nicely. In that all of his tests did not indicate a specific disease, their thoughts were that he may have had an intestinal infection, or a reaction to his shots (rabies and distemper ) . The later I found quite unsettling. 2. adrenal ferret question From: Rikkie2000@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 19:26:01 EDT Rikkie, my 6 year old adrenal ferret has diligently been licking her back leg and now has a sore about the size of a nickel. What do you think could be causing this sudden behavior? Thanks, Becky 3. Help/Chromium, Brewer's Yeast, and Blood Glucose From: "Buetow" Date sent: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 15:36:21 -0500 (CDT) I'd like to know if the following symptoms sound familiar to anybody. Buddy has been having soft stools for a while. They run the gamut from very mucousy and runny to just very soft and grainy. Now she has started arching her back at times when she passes her stools. She has also been acting very nauseous--grinding her teeth and smacking her lips when she wakes up or eats or when she gets her meds. This morning she ate some kibble and then I heard her chewing on her sleeping towel. Her activity level seems to be decreasing as well. Two weeks ago when I visited her vet, we tested a stool sample and she had a high count of e-coli. She has been on antibiotics in the meantime (bactrim) and it helped a WEE bit with the nausea, but not the stool. Her blood glucose was also very low and she is on pred and proglycem. I know the low glucose can cause nausea, but I'm wondering why she would arch her back upon passing stool. Any advice would be appreciated. As to the question of chromium/brewers yeast and blood glucose. I'm not sure of their expertise, but I checked Prescription for Nutritional Healing by James and Phyllis Balch (New York: Avery, 1997) and they say chromium "maintains stable blood sugar levels through proper insulin utilization, and can be helpful both for people with diabetes and those with hypoglycemia." (24) And Home Remedies, What Works, by Gale Maleskey and Brian Kaufman (Emmaus, Pennsylvania: Rodale Press, 1995) says "Chromium, an essential trace mineral and the same shiny stuff that's used to put a gleam on car bumpers, has been found in several studies to improve the symptoms of hypoglycemia. 'It seems to work by improving insulin efficiency, or the ability of insulin to escort glucose into cells, where it is burned for fuel,' explains Richard Anderson, Ph.D., a biochemist at the Beltsville Human Nutrition Research Center in Beltsville, Maryland. 'It seems to normalize insulin levels and insulin function, which in turn normalizes glucose levels.'" (288) Sorry this ended up so long. Chris and the Sunshine Gang With AD and Pippy always in my heart buetowc@sls.lib.il.us 4. Lucky Charm: Seeking vet recommendations From: Linda.Doran@att.net Date sent: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 14:55:36 +0000 Hi, everyone. I'm so busy I haven't posted in a while. Lucky Charm has insulinoma and our vet has informed us that the charge is $1,200 for a partial adrenalectomy. (They want $1,000 for a left adrenalectomy on Chocolate Moose.) I am in shock. That seems so far beyond anything else I've ever encountered it's hard to fathom -- unless VCA is just charging a whole lot extra for corporate profits. If anyone here has a recommendation for a ferret vet in or near Albuquerque, New Mexico, please let me know. Thanks. Linda, Lucky Charm, Chocolate Moose, & Zipper 5. sending Rascal Over the Rainbow Bridge From: "Mary Tremblay" Date sent: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 23:18:50 -0400 As you go on vacation - we are preparing our remaining fuzzies: Goofy, Bear, Phoebe & Nike to send their 6 yr old brother Rascal over the Rainbow Bridge to meet his brothers: Mickey, Daffy, and Casey. It's hard for us "Big Ones" because he is the first one both of us adopted from the SPCA four years ago. Rascal had done well, but now we realize we are only keeping him on "life support" and are having to adapt our lives to keep him alive. It's not right for him or us to have to go thru his trauma when we can't get home in time to give him his meds. It's hard for us because we love him and would like to keep him alive, but realizing his needs and the fact no one could give him the love and attention we do when we go on vacation, have decided to send him on to see Mickey, Daffy and Casey over the Rainbow Bridge - we know they will be on the other side to greet him and show him the "ropes". We will miss him, but know it is the best. On Saturday we will take him to the Vet's and then bring him home to rest under the Lilac with his brothers. RIP Rascal! 6. sending Rascal Over the Rainbow Bridge Date sent: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:52:37 -0400 From: "Mary Tremblay" We almost lost him Friday before he made it to the Vets. I got home he was convulsing alittle, but would not take his normal jump start of Karo - I ahd set him in the carrier to sleep 2 hours later he was awake and dragging himself across the rug. Not wanting to watch him squirm I tried the Karo again which he gladly took. I think that probably what I had gotten into his system through his gums ahd probably taken effect. He made it through the night and went peacefully at theVets, He now has his place under the Lilac with Mickey & Daffy. We know what we did was best since he wasn't improving with medicine or the Insulinoma Elixer we found on miamiferret.org -- 7. FAIML #409; April 9, 2000 Date sent: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:13:10 EDT From: WGHOL@aol.com In a message dated 4/9/00 11:30:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, faiml@uswest.net writes: << One note of interest...he is grinding his teeth a bit and "smotching" even when not eating (or trying to). The poor little guy actively takes all soft food (ferretvite, ferretone, duck soup, ensure) offered by syringe but just can't seem to take it (well he does that) and CHEW IT from the food bowl. >> You could be seeing a case of ulcers and/or insulinoma here. Did you do a blood test which checked his glucose level? If not, I'd have one done a.s.a.p. I never recommend a fasting blood test, as if he is insulinomic, he may seizure (hypoglycemia) from lowering the sugar level from no food. If his levels are low, they'll show regardless of fasting or not... Ulcers are common, are his stools tarry or sticky and dark looking? Insulinoma and adrenal most often go hand in hand, and It sounds to me like you're seeing a case of extreme naseau here, which is a typical sign. Keep him on the soup mixture, be very careful to make it as bland as possible, I've enclosed one that is simple and contains no added sugars... avoid any ensure, whipping creams, honey, ferretvite...until you are sure he is clear of insulinoma... let me know how it turns out, Wendi 8. brewer's yeast/chromium From: "fetS" Date sent: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 20:49:18 +0200 hello everybody, don't know if it's custom on this list to introduce yourself, so just in case... My name is Stef and I live with my wife Tania and our 2 ferrets Odo, Neelix and Kahless in Belgium.  We have been involved with ferrets for 15 years. Just wanted to vent a small reaction on the brewer's yeast/chromium thingie. The chromium is just an ingredient of the brewer's yeast. The effect the chromium has is that it keeps the glucose level in the ferret's blood to a more stable level. No more, no less. It is not going to turn an insulinomic ferret into a diabetic one or vice versa. fetS,  fets.ferretpower@yucom.be  www.ferretpower.yucom.be 10/04/00 at 20:35:02 9. FAIML #409; April 9, 2000 (Chromium) From: WGHOL@aol.com Date sent: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:23:30 EDT In a message dated 4/9/00 11:30:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, faiml@uswest.net writes: << OK, you're trying to confuse me! I've heard/read that you are suppose to give Brewers Yeast to insulinomic ferrets. I know there is still controversy on the use of Chromium picolinate. (I wasn't aware that Chromium was a yeast.) Clarification please! I'm already having enough trouble with Bob's chicken gravy on whether to put in the Nutrical or honey! >> This is from Dr. J. Murray's post: "CHROMIUM The mineral chromium (brewer’s yeast) appears to improve glucose metabolism by increasing insulin’s action. Chromium supple- mentation improves glucose tolerance (high levels) in diabetic people and dogs. In dogs, chromium increases glucose clearance from the bloodstream without a change in insulin concentration. Basically it lowers blood sugar levels after a meal to prevent stimulation of the pancreas or insulinoma. Some vets report adding brewers yeast (1/4 teaspoon) or chromium picolinate (10-20mcg) to the food helps increase energy levels. On the other hand, animal nutritionist at Iams and Hills (science diet) do not recommend adding chromium; because, it does LOWER blood sugar levels! I do not recommend chromium supplementation; because, it may do more harm than good." I think the confusion is that Insulinoma is often confused with Diabetes. They are almost opposite diseases. Where Chromium helps Diabetes, because Diabetes causes high levels of sugar, Insulinomia is caused by low blood sugar. Brewer's yeast (chromium) lowers the blood sugar, so by giving it to a fert with insul,. you're actually working against the medication which is working to raise the sugar level, while the chromium lowers it more. The Soup mixture apparently contains very little honey or nutrical, and in some cases a bit actually helps out. Keep the amounts low, and if it's working fine for you, then go with it. If you keep the sugar out completely, and notice an improvement there, than go with that. Unfortunately, its a real hit and miss process. No two ferts respond the same it seems. good luck, Wendi Easy Chicken Goop - in a slow cooker with distilled water, cook your chicken/or/turkey pieces. (lamb is also a good choice) (chicken is easier to digest) use an oven if a slow cooker is not available. Leave skin and all fat on the pieces. - in a blender, pulverize a good quality ferret food (Totally Ferret or similar...) - When meat is cooked, puree it in the blender with the water (using all the skin & fat), keep the consistancy like a thin soup, add water as needed. - Mix this with the ground kibble and pour into ice cube trays for freezing (or small tupperware containers) - For serving, remove several cubes and keep in the fridge. Take out enough cubes for about four days feeding. About 2 tablespoons every four hours if the ferret is losing weight. - To feed, heat the mixture slightly in the microwave (9 secs.) Stir well and finger test to be sure it has no 'hot spots' which could cause injury. - Add about a tsp. of FerretTone (Linatone) - Use a small plate to serve, and at first dip your finger into the mix and let the ferret lick it off. (it may take a while for them to get used to this mixture) This is a good mash for fattening up, it also helps ferrets take medications, which can be easily mixed into the chicken goop. Add some Pedialyte to their drinking water for electrolyte replacement. Add any medication or vitamine after heating! Good Luck WGHol@AOL.com ----------------------- End of FAIML #410 -------------------------