From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 6:27 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Subject: FAIML #411; April 16, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #411; April 16, 2000 1. Bandit Update; Questions 2. surgical specialist in SC 3. Response for Buddy: FAIML #410; April 11, 2000 4. My mind is spinning 5. Re:More Chromium info 6. Depotmedrol 7. Get To The Source of the Problem The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Bandit Update; Questions From: Cjbandit@aol.com Date sent: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:55:07 EDT Hi Wendi, (and all) It's Christina and Bandit writing with some questions again and also to give you an update on Bandit. (Just as a reminder Bandit has an enlarged right adrenal and is four years old.) Bandit went back to AMC on Saturday to see DR. Adamkack who's done many Lupron studies-so now I got it straight from the horses mouth "to do the surgery" based on her findings she still recommends the surgery. So now Lupron can be put to rest that is until I schedule the surgery with Dr. Weiss. The DR. gave Bandit one more shot of Lupron this time 150mcg they work by administering gradual increments of the drug-remember the first injection was 100mcg. for one month. It seems the drug has taken affect, his urination is still good and I just started to see peach fuzz coming in where he had lost his hair. However, there is now another problem the blood glucose that was taken was 52 (to LOW) I was really surprised only because a month ago his reading was (91) and about (6-9) months prior it was in normal range. So Dr. Adamkack gave me #30cc PediaPred to be given 0.55cc twice a day for one month. I need to know if I give him this drug will his body become dependent on it to manage blood glucose levels??? The vet said I could wait another two weeks to do another reading before administering the drug if I preferred. What do you think? And do you know where I can get info. on this drug specifically? Also I know based on what I've read online that PediaPred is usually given with Proglycem but she did not mention that and I didn't realize it at the time. She also suggested Science Diet W/D which actually is a low fat diet for cats but very high in fiber. She said the high fiber will help keep the sugar in the blood because it helps slow metabolism down (something like that anyway). Also I noticed this W/D it has Creatine in it which is supposed to help metabolize fat in the body for energy. What do you think I hate to give him such a low fat diet because I know FAT is very important for ferrets. Oh one other thing I should mention Bandit's hema Cretin (?) was high she said that it might suggest he's a little dehydrated. I myself don't think he's drinking enough water so I was thinking of softening his kibble with water and adding pedialyte to his regular water? I know I'm a Panic but I can't HELP IT! By the way I tried your recipe and whipped it up quite easily but Bandit doesn't seem to like it. I wondered if I made it to lumpy by putting to much kibble?? Is the consistency after you add the kibble porridge like?? I guess I just have to keep trying. I know I'm asking a lot here but I value your advice Thanx Christina 2. surgical specialist in SC From: tduffy@attglobal.net Date sent: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 21:33:06 -0400 I'm new to the list so please bear with me. First, condolences to all who have lost a little fuzzy friend. Two months ago our 2 1/2 year old ferret Rascal was diagnosed with an adrenal tumor via ultra-sound. It looked like a right. After agonizing for a week about where to take her for the surgery, I faxed a long list of questions to Dr. Jevens at Upstate Veterinary Specialists in Greenville SC. He was nice enough to call me on a Sunday morning to discuss everything. Although he isn't a "ferret specialist", he is a surgical specialist. He is board certified which involves an extra 3 years veterinary surgical residency after vet school, rigorous testing etc. I was very impressed with his honesty in answering my questions. He doesn't see very many ferrets but all he does is small animal surgery. No shots etc. The regular vets in town all send their difficult surgical cases to him. I opted for him to do the surgery. It has been 6 weeks since and she is almost fully "furred" now. Dr. Jevens did an excellent job. I have every confidence in him. I found him to be very pleasant, great with animls and very skilled. I will have not hesitatein going back to him if further surgery is needed. Our regular ferret vet sent us there. If any of you need a ferret surgeon in or around South Carolina I would highly recommend him. His name is Dr. Dermot Jevens Upstate Veterinary Specialists Greenville, SC 1-864-233-7650 I'm really picky about who operates on my animals. I had show dogs for years. Sorry this was long but there may be someone in my area who needs his services like I did. Tommie Duffy 3. Response for Buddy: FAIML #410; April 11, 2000 From: KFor651676@aol.com Date sent: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:43:14 EDT Response for Buddy' My ferret acted in a similar way when she had an ulcer. She had lip smacking and tooth grinding. It sounds like he is in pain and has nausea. Whenever my ferret is sick she chews on a tied up sock that she has had for 4yrs. It is a pattern I have noted. She used to go over to the bowl to eat and then run to get her sock and chew the heck out of it. She has had several different illnesses and when she is ill she needs her sock! I usually try acidopholous when my vet has no answers for me it may help her tummy, also ask you vet about an acid blocker. I think Pred can be tough on the tummy but I am not sure? Good Luck Kelly Foran & The 4 Foran Furbutts 4. My mind is spinning From: "Vicki L. Henderson" Date sent: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 00:17:33 -0400 Ok, just recently lost a ferret to insulinoma and cardiomypathy. Been told 2 years ago by ferret knowledgeable vet to feed him turkey and rice or chicken and rice babyfood after surgery, he wasn't eating on his own and had loose stools. The rice will help firm the stools up. Ok. Did that. Anytime he came down with loose stools I would add a small amount of rice baby cereal in his goop to help him firm up. Iams cat food has rice. Rice is suppose to be safe for them to eat? And then studies come out showing that rice might be responsible for causing insulinoma, by making their pancreas overwork breaking down the starches in the food, making their glucose levels fluctuate? And now, after being told by 3 different ferret knowledgeable vets that brewers yeast helps elevate the glucose levels, and when his readings were low told to increase the brewers yeast, that it actually may have been harming him and not helping him? What this boils down to, is lots of money spent on vets, medication, special diets, etc. to help my ferret and it turns out that all these "ferret knowledgeable" vets were wrong and I was actually contributing to my ferrets demise? I am confused and angry, this is all making sense and not making sense. I don't want to feel responsible for my ferrets diseases, even though I do, and there is no one specifically to blame if there is not enough properly educated ferret vets out there. This makes me fear for the health of my remaining 4. But, what am I to do? Vicki L. Henderson-aka-Ferret Fanatic Woody, Miss Tizzy, Ginger Snap & General Kaos! Sadly missing "Buzz"-who will always be in our hearts The Fearless FLO! http://www.geocities.com/vlh1 Ferret Xmas Ornaments: http://members.home.net/ferretfanatic ICQ: 11898312 5. Re:More Chromium info From: AFERRETVET@cs.com Date sent: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 23:26:49 EDT Sounds like I have caused some confusion about the use of chromium (or brewer's yeast) for ferrets with insulinomas. Chris wrote on the April 11 issue that Richard Anderson Ph.D. says "it seems to work by improving insulin efficiency, or the ability of insulin to escort glucose into cells where it is burned for fuel," and "it seems to normalize insulin levels and insulin function which in turn normalizes glucose levels." These are great things IF you or your ferret have DIABETES (type 2) and you are trying to LOWER the blood glucose levels. However in ferrets with insulinoma it is the exact OPPOSITE problem. They already have a blood glucose that is to low from to much insulin! You do not want to give chromium (or brewer's yeast which contains chromium) to help the insulin lower the blood glucose even more when it is already too low to start with! Dr Anderson's 2 articles: Chromium, glucose intolerance and diabetes; and Elevated intakes of supplemental chromium improve glucose and insulin variables in individuals with type 2 diabetes- both show chromium to lower blood glucose levels. In insulinoma ferrets you want some that will RAISE blood glucose levels (i.e., pred and proglycem); however, you do NOT want to give something that will lower blood glucose levels and make things worse (i.e., chromium, brewer's yeast, vanadyl, or insulin ). Jerry Murray, DVM 6. Depotmedrol From: teckart@oznet.ksu.edu Date sent: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:18:02 -0500 Recently we had the opportunity to try Depot medrol when pred caused an ulcer. Depot medrol is an injectable time-release (depot) steroid and can last 2-6 weeks. Our vet had been hesitant to use it previously because it isn't a steady dose of steriod as our daily pred doses are. We were quite pleased with the results. If your ferret seems to be having difficulty with pred or the daily dosing is inconvenient, you may want to try Depot medrol injections. Warm hugs to all. tle Troy Lynn Eckart Ferret Family Services http://www-personal.ksu.edu/~sprite/ffs.html http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Haven/5481/ Please sign up to support our charity http://www.iGive.com/html/ssi.cfm?cid=46&mid=58395 7. Get To The Source of the Problem From: "Erin Shepherd" Date sent: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:40:53 -0400 it's only been seven months since Reggie, my five year old male ferret, had adrenal surgery. now the doc has diagnosed him with insulinoma. the doc wasn't surprised by this either.. if the adrenal / insulinoma is so common, and it's a result of improper breeding and other unscrupulous activites at ferret farms (mainly), why does it continue? don't get me wrong, i LOVE my ferrets; but, to be perfectly honest, i would NEVER have taken home ferrets from the pet store had i known what it would be like several years down the road. i can't stand to see Reggie suffer. the doc wants to do another surgery, but i've read that tumor recurrence is very high - and, besides, it's so invasive. i won't permit him to be slit from neck to navel again. we do our best to deal with our sick ferrets, but have ferret owners joined together in an attempt to right what is so obviously wrong. what efforts have been made politically to go to the source of the problem and correct breeders? is anyone else FED UP? e ~~<:))))><~~~<:))))><~~~<:))))><~~~~~~ >*)((((((>>><~~ Erin E. Shepherd ees@ahhif.org Make A Donation To A Great Cause! http://www.freenet.tlh.fl.us/~wild/index.html ----------------------- End of FAIML #411 -------------------------