From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2000 3:04 PM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@miamiferret.org Subject: FAIML #418; May 6, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #418; May 6, 2000 Hi. Just a reminder that I'll be in California from May 7-11, so there will be no list during that time. But you can always post to the daily FML (see info in paragraph below). Alaska, as always, was incredibile. I met a mucky muck from the Dept of Agriculture, stationed in AK, on the way up, and shared a seat with another mucky muck from the AK Dept of Fish and Game (who didn't know anything about the CA Fish and Game, lucky for him). So, I got to hear about really neat projects to restore wildlife and fish habitat, etc. The view of Denali from the plane out of Fairbanks was jaw breaking, and earlier I'd driven into Denali Park, which presented beauty I'd heretofore never encountered. Had to wait for a huge moose to move out of the road, and saw a momma grizzly and her cubs (from afar). The gravel road was open to the public as it is sometimes in early May! As I drove back to Fairbanks the world grew more and more silver until about 1am, when darkness finally fell. It was magical and mystical. Well, back to ferrets, and there are plenty of questions this issue, including one about Buttercup, a ferret I've never met but is yet near and dear to my heart, so I hope we can help Clare and Bill decide what to do. Other important questions, too, about other sweet fuzzies. This will be the last list until May 11, though I will get anything pressing out tonight. So, make sure, if you post the list, that you also send the message to anyone to whom you might be responding. Fuzzy hugs. Lynn The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Buttercup: third surgery? 2. advice needed soon! 3. New to List 4. update on Jonesy 5. Duck Soup/Chicken Gravy Question? 6. Tally is fine 1. Buttercup: third surgery? From: "Clare Sebok" Date sent: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 00:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Buttercup has developed more adrenal symptoms, and her third Lupron shot didn't reverse them (unlike the 1st and 2nd Lupron shots). Dr. Weiss also discovered that her spleen is very big. She was anemic, but after a few weeks on PetTinic, her hematocrit is back to normal. We took her for an ultrasound on Wednesday. We know she has a malignant right adrenal tumor; we wanted to find out its size and whether it is occluding the vena cava. The ultrasound showed that the tumor is about an inch in diameter and is not blocking the blood flow through the vena cava. The ultrasound also showed that her left kidney is so small that she is probably living on her right kidney. Now we are trying to decide whether or not a third surgery is in her best interest. Buttercup is 6 years old, very strong, active, and interested in her toys and raisins. She had her left adrenal gland removed in June 1998 and has had adrenal symptoms off and on ever since. She had a second adrenal surgery in March 1999. This time it was adrenal carcinoma on the right side. She still had adrenal symptoms after surgery, but Lupron reversed them for several months. She still has a beautiful coat, although her vulva is some- what enlarged and sometimes she acts like she doesn't feel well. We have to decide between surgery and lysodren. The decision is difficult because it would be the third time for her to go through major surgery, and her problems are similar to Jasmine's. Jasmine also had a huge spleen and right adrenal tumor and died two days after surgery last June. On the other hand, lysodren lowers blood sugar and her last blood glucose was 85, not really as high as it should be. We would appreciate any advice about this difficult decision. How do ferrets tolerate lysodren? Does it affect their quality of life? How dramatic is its effect on blood glucose? Does it damage the kidneys? On another note, is it inhumane to put an animal through major surgery three times? Clare and Bill 2. advice needed soon! From: "Clare Sebok" Date sent: Thu, 4 May 2000 23:24:08 -0400 (EDT) Buttercup is scheduled for adrenal surgery on Wednesday, May 10. I am not sure this is the right thing to do, and we really need some advice and information. History: Buttercup had her left adrenal gland removed in June 1998. She had her right adrenal gland partly removed in March 1999. The pathology report said it was adrenal carcinoma. She has done well for a long time on Lupron, but adrenal symptoms started coming back about two months ago. She had an ultrasound last week which revealed a right adrenal tumor about 1 inch in diameter. It does not appear to occlude the vena cava, and it is not attached to the liver. Also, Buttercup's spleen is very large, and her left kidney is very small. The radiologist thinks she is living on her right kidney. Her BUN is normal, but creatinine is elevated. (Her BUN has been high in the past, and sub-q fluids brought it back to normal.) Her last glucose test was 85. Buttercup is 6 years old and still strong and active, though sometimes she acts like she doesn't feel well. Question 1: Is it cruel to put an animal through major surgery a third time? The tumor is very big, so she will probably have a rough recovery. Our last ferret who had a huge right adrenal tumor removed didn't survive, and I'm afraid this could happen again. Question 2: Would lysodren be a good option in this case? What are the side effects? Would it damage her kidneys? Would it interfere with her quality of life? Would it stop the tumor's growth enough to enable her to live for another year? We would truly appreciate some help with this agonizing decision. Thank you, Clare and Bill 3. New to List- Jack Date sent: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:46:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Jennifer Hudson" As much as I was excited to join the FML two+ years ago, it is with some regret I have followed Mary Rogers suggestion and sign up for this list also. My silver mitt, Jack, was diagnosed last Sunday/Monday with insulinoma and possibly adrenal. I pulled him out of the Chester County SPCA in Pennsylvania over 18 months ago at an age guesstimated to be 18 months. He was rough and scraggly and blossomed into a vibrant drop dead handsome sweetie. We noticed he was looking a little rough, but Jack tends to be a little messy during shedding seasons. About 12:30 on Easter we went to round up the ferrets before company arrived for dinner and Jack was missing. He had been trying to climb my leg not 15 minutes earlier when I was cleaning cages, so I knew he was somewhere in the rec room. He is extremely predictable, so I figured he would be in his favorite desk drawer. I found him completely limp and barely breathing under the desk. After 5 frantic calls, I found an emergency vet hospital who would treat a ferret in such a state. After a 25 minute drive (that should have been 40!), we arrived at Old Marple and they immediately started him on glucose and not sure what else (my thinking was not terribly clear at that very moment). He bounced back very quickly, but they kept him overnight for x-rays, more bloodwork, IV fluids, etc. I transferred him in the morning to our new vet, Karen Allum of Creature Comforts (an incredible ferret vet and wonderful person). Definitely insulinoma, concern of adrenal because of unsual shedding on his tail, but not exactly baldness. He is on 2ml pred daily, with the hopes of stabilizing him so he is strong for surgery (aiming for end of next week - early following). I have ceased all sweets including raisins, any type of cereal (fruit loops, apple jacks), cheweasel toys, etc. He is eating TF kibble and a mix (or mess?) of AD, TF, ferretone and baby turkey food. Kim Rushing of Kista is sending me a block of Bob C chicken gravy. Jack has gained back a bit of the weight he lost and is quite active and spunky, showing not a single symptom. He goes back tomorrow (Saturday) for another blood glucose. I am floundering on the brewers yeast, reading both positive and negative. Any suggestions, hints or direction??? I've educated myself with reading, but I have found in my years of ferret adorement, that what works may not be what the book says!! So, here I am asking those who have traveled this road before me to avoid the major pitfalls. Thanks to all. Jen and Gang ........................................................ iWon.com http://www.iwon.com why wouldn't you? ........................................................ 4. update on Jonesy From: "Sue Stout" Date sent: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:19:06 -0500 Jonesy had his surgery yesterday. Vet took off the growth on his little foot. A biopsy was taken and sent off somewhere. We are back to playing the waiting game until the results come in. In the mean time, he is on amoxi drops and his prednisolone. He gets around like the dressing on his foot and leg doesn't bother him at all! If the biopsy should come back as cancerous, the vet says we will have to remove his toe (littlest toe on his foot). Sure hope it doesn't come down to that! Jonesy has also been aggressively dragging one of my little girls around by the head, neck, ear, etc while trying to mount her. (He was neutered long, long ago). Vet says this could possibly be from the prednisolone. Anyone have any experience with this type of behavior while on prednisone? Vet says this is not enough to suspect adrenal disease since there are no other symptoms. Well, thanks for listening (reading). Any input would be great. Sue 5. Duck Soup/Chicken Gravy Question? From: JHerge9760@aol.com Date sent: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:57:27 EDT I am confused. I am very thankful for all the advice but I have heard different things and don't know the difference or which one to use. Chicken gravy or duck soup what is the difference and which one should I use. Also Keegan is eating her food - Kaytee Ferret Food per usual. She has kept up her eating and treating eating habits minus the sweet stuff. I use to give her cheerios and raisins often. So should I still feed her this in addition to what she is eating. I have 3 other ferrets and I just fill their bowl up everyday. I don't feed them seperately. I don't think I could find the time to feed four ferrets every 3 to 4 hours. It would be hard for me to stop Keegan from eating her everyday food unless I isolate her which is something I am NOT willing to do. HELP!!! 6. Tally is fine From: Zatsusan@aol.com Date sent: Tue May 02 05:29:26 2000 Dear All, I posted recently on Tally grinding his teeth. I took him to the wonderful ferret vet I have recently found and she gave him the all-clear. She's not sure why he's grinding his teeth but he isn't in pain or uncomfortable. Just thought I'd pass on the good news and many thanks to all those who e-mailed me with suggestions. Thank you all again! Luv Susan, Tally, Bailey and Fane. ----------------------- End of FAIML #418 -------------------------