From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 10:12 AM To: mjanke@miamiferret.org Subject: (Fwd) Adrenal List #42 Forwarded message: From: Self To: @SENDLIST.PML Subject: Adrenal List #42 Reply-to: Lynn McIntosh Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:15:01 Hi there! Michael. So glad to hear Max is holding his own! Keep watching that pee stream like a hawk to make sure he doesn't block up. Wally (with the huge adrenal tumor which will either be removed through vena cava ligation or worked on with Lysodren), had blood in his urine but no UT infection was found. The theory is that the big tumor is putting some pressure on his kidneys. He's not showing signs of urinary problems, though he does pee drips, and I must check to see if others pee drips or streams - urinary and bowel habits certainly take on new meaning in the medical care of ferrets! I'm off to bed - exhausted! Fuzzy hugs to all, of course, Lynn Mc. P.S. I"m thinking of the eight year old fuzzy who recently had surgery (mentioned in the list here) and hoping he or she is doing well... L Adrenal List #42, dated August 29, 1997 1. Adrenal LIst #41: Reply re: Max 2. Adrenal LIst #41: Reply re: Max 3. Max update 4. Adrenal LIst #4: Reply re: EB & Fiona; Max; Seldon 5. Reply re: Fiona 6. Fiona's Insulinoma problem 7. More on Max (post) 1.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:01:10 -0400 (EDT) From: ferretwise@top.monad.net Subject: Re: Adrenal LIst #41: Reply re: Max Mike, Sorry to hear that poor Max is having so many troubles as of late. The enlarged heart is relatively common in older ferrets and in adrenal / lympho ferrets -- in MY EXPERIENCE. If the readings look OK, do not fear this - at least not now. It sounds as if Max has a prostatic cyst-- many other adrenal kids have had this same trouble.... I hope they can find out and fix it with surgery before his kidneys take a toll... I will keep you both in my thoughts... hugs to you both!!! Alicia a shelter Mom 2.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:23:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Lynn Mcintosh To: "Michael F. Janke" Subject: Re: Adrenal LIst #41: Reply re: Max Hi Michael. I wasn't sure if Alicia sent this to you. I am thinking of Max, and hoping for the best. I hope Max and Wally's stories turn out to be good ones, among the many sad ones of late! Percy's enlarged prostate was evident on an x-ray, but his vet knew what to look for as her Robbie had had an enlarged prostate. My understanding is that nothing can be done surgically for an enlarged prostate (though a cyst could be helped surgically I would suppose). Lupron is what Robbie was given when he blocked due to an adrenal-related enlarged prostate, which led to a complete urinary tract blockage. If you would like more info on Lupron I'd be happy to send it. It shrunk Robbie's prostate and he never had another problem urinating. Please know I'm thinking of Max and give him a little hug from me in Washington state, Lynn ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:01:10 -0400 (EDT) From: ferretwise@top.monad.net Subject: Re: Adrenal LIst #41 (fwd) Mike, Sorry to hear that poor Max is having so many troubles as of late. The enlarged heart is relatively common in older ferrets and in adrenal / lympho ferrets -- in MY EXPERIENCE. If the readings look OK, do not fear this - at least not now. It sounds as if Max has a prostatic cyst-- many other adrenal kids have had this same trouble.... I hope they can find out and fix it with surgery before his kidneys take a toll... I will keep you both in my thoughts... hugs to you both!!! Alicia a shelter Mom 3.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 07:43:27 -0400 From: "Michael F. Janke" Subject: Re: Max update > I am thinking of Max, and hoping for the best. I hope Max and Wally's > stories turn out to be good ones, among the many sad ones of late! Thanks Lynn. I too hope this turns out happy and we both appreciate the good thoughts! I'll mention the lupron to my vet. > From: ferretwise@top.monad.net > Mike, > Sorry to hear that poor Max is having so many troubles as of late. The enlarged > heart is relatively common in older ferrets and in adrenal / lympho ferrets -- > in MY EXPERIENCE. If the readings look OK, do not fear this - at least not now. Alicia, that's the same comment I had. In the past, with Duncan, we did an ultrasound with a Dr. Burke. He has done hundreds of ferrets (he did our whole shelter in one fell swoop to develop a guideline) and told me (and the vet) that an enlarged heart in older ferrets is not unusual. But, my vet says Max's heart is REALLY enlarged, not the normal (if you can call it normal) enlargement of older ferrets. Still, the heart problem doesn't seem to be a problem at the moment and I'm more concerned about the bladder problem. Max seems to be holding up ok, but he's still peeing blood every time. He doesn't seem to be straining as much or trying as many times last night and today, so maybe that's a good sign. Thanks to everyone for the good thoughts. For the ferrets, Mike 4.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:27:15 -0400 From: "Mary L. McCarty" To: Lynn Mcintosh Subject: Re: Adrenal LIst #4: Reply re: EB & Fiona; Max; Seldon Hi Jill, >Adrenal (EB) what do others do when surgery is not an option? Good vets >are hard to come by in my area. (My vet came highly recommended by a >ferret group some people drive a couple of hundred miles for him to do >surgeries) I haven't heard anything about the U of TN panel being inconclusive. I just had an estradiol test done by Cornell (who only test for estradiol, not the other hormones as U of TN does) and it was fine. It is actually a bit cheaper than the U of TN test and is supposed to be even more reliabile (not that U of TN is not reliable). It's up to you if you want to get the test done, your vet should be supportive if they are any good. If the ferret is in good health, there is no reason to avoid surgery. However, you have to feel that you did the right thing and if you decide to not go for surgery, there are other things to look into. Have you talked with Carin Riley about her homeopathic adrenal fix? I am starting one of my guys on that as soon as I get all the ingrediants together. >Insulinoma (Fiona) what is the least stressful way to give medication? >Since her energy level has dropped since I started the pred what does >that mean? I give her the pred after she has eaten in hopes that the >food will coat her stomach. Would she be better off without the pred? >My only concern here is the quality of life for these two, I will do >whats best for them. What would be the difference in the quality of >life with medication vs without? Sorry I am asking so many questions My Maggie has major adrenal problems - half bald on the bottom half and still losing hair everywhere else - and he also has insolunoma. I give one 1/4 tablet of 2mg pred, crushed up with Ferretone and let Maggie lick it up. You may want to try the pill form rather than liquid, although I heard the liquid is great. He eats most of it and I figure that is better than nothing, since he spits everything out that I try to put in his mouth (whether by syringe or popping the pill down his throat, etc.). Maggie reacted the exact opposite of Fiona as far as energy level. He was a different ferret once I started him on the pred for the insulinoma - he acted like a kit again, although my vet at the time felt that surgery wasn't warranted because of age (Maggie was 6 then, now he is 6.5 - will be 7 in January) and don't I wish I had changed vets then! Maggie is still doing well, but I don't know if he is strong enough for surgery. I think that the reason Maggie has hung on and still had a quality life is the prednisone. He sleeps more than he did before, but he still gets up and around, is very sweet, plays when he wants with his buddies, eats alot, poops well - what more can a fuzzy ask for? > Todd, >I don't know if this will help but my vet told me that adrenals and >insulinomas feed each other. They compensate for the others over/under >production. In his opinion you generally have both because of the >compensation. I don't know if that is correct. This is interesting - maybe this is why Maggie is doing better because he has both problems? I had never heard this before. Does anyone else have more info on it? >Subject: Max update (post) >I feel so helpless that I don't know what to do and watching him trying so >hard to pee breaks my heart. Mike - I went thru all of this with Bear (Max is actually doing much better than Bear, so take heart in that) and that helpless feeling never goes away. I hope they can get him fixed up with the bladder surgery - our prayers are with you both. Kisses to all your adorable kids - Mary and the gang.... Fatso, Skinny, Maggie, Sweet Pea & foster ferret, Spigot (what a loverboy!) In remembrance of Bear, gone to the Rainbow Bridge on June 28 1997 5.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 01:34:46 +0000 From: Beth Subject: Reply re: Fiona Jill, When Sully had Pred we found the easiest way was to crush the section of the tablet & mix with heavy cream. It was a very small piece in about a teaspoon of cream. We also found that he loves vanilla Ensure Plus so that's another way to disguise it. Somehow he knew if it was in the Ferretone or Ferretvite. I'm suprised the Pred makes her lethargic as it should increase the appetite. I have a friend with lupus who takes pred every other day. She will try to take it on the days she has a lot to do as she feels better. Can you find another vet? A second opinion wouldn't hurt as both conditions can be treated with surgery. Your vet may just be considering the average life span of a ferret which really seems to be 5-7 years & will surgery really prolong their lives? Although my vet just did an adrenal on an 8 year old! I'm taking the "found" ferret for shots tomorrow so maybe I'll find out how she did. Beth 6.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 11:11:33 -0400 From: Rick Riley Subject: Fiona's Insulinoma problem Lynn, In Adrenal list 41, Jill posted about her ferret Fiona and her Insulinoma problem. I wanted to share my experience with her but she posted anonymously. If you could forward this to her, I would appreciate it. If not, you may post it if you deem it appropriate. Thank you, Carin Riley Dear Jill, I read about your problem with Fiona and I wanted to offer my experience to you in hopes that it will help. It may at least give you an alternative to consider. The following is my story. I had to say goodbye to my first ferret, Stinky, last August after a year long battle with insulinoma. The vet had her on Pred and proglycem (too much in my opinion) and I slowly saw not only the disease wear her down but the medication as well. At the end it had effected her liver as well as her adrenal and it tore me apart helplessly watching her go. I tried Mary Van Dahm's insulinoma elixir with little success but at least felt I was not harming her by trying it. After she was gone I vowed I would never put any of my ferrets on those medications again. I really believe it shortened her life and did little to give quality to the life she had left.. Within a few months of losing her, I noticed my second ferret, Squeaky, coming down with the same symptoms. How could life be so cruel? I immediately started her on the Science Diet A/D and Gerber chicken baby food mixture to supplement her diet and although saw some improvement, I still saw obvious signs. (i.e. going right back to sleep after waking up in the morning and sleeping almost all day, nausea-pawing at the mouth and occasional vomiting, weakness of the hind legs, and a nasty seizure during a bout with ECE) Then in April, I was given information about Noni juice. It is juice made from the Morinda Citrofolia (Noni) tree in French Polynesia. The Tahitians have used it in their healing preparations for 2000 years. I read people's accounts how it had cured their diabetes, low blood sugar, high blood pressure, low blood pressure, arthritis, tumors, etc. etc. It seems to work with your body's own healing properties to attack your specific problem. Anyway, being a little sceptical but very interested in natural remedies myself, I bought a bottle and was thrilled at how within a week, it gave me so much extra energy and regulated my blood sugar(I'm borderline hypoglycemic). I figured since it was helping with my blood sugar and is completely natural and organic, it might just help my little insulinoma victim. I scaled down the dosage to ferret size (three drops per day) and started giving it to her in her soft food mixture. I am not exaggerating when I say that within a week and a half, I had a new ferret. My whole family is in awe of what has taken place in this ferret. She gets up in the morning and stays up, she runs everywhere, she plays with the others (even the young ones and she is 6), all signs of nausea have disappeared, no vomiting, full use of hind legs, no seizures. Whenever I go into the ferret room any time of day, I call her name and she wakes up and comes to greet me. I can't express how excited I am about this product. I can't guarantee that it's reducing the tumors on her pancreas (although Noni has been proven to have anti-carcinogenic properties), but it is definitely regulating her blood sugar. I have since increased her dosage to 6 drops a day with even more dramatic results. She has been on the Noni every day since late April and there have been no side effects and never an "off" day. The results are consistent every day. I also have a two year old who had a nasty reaction to a new litter I changed to. I won't get into all the details now because it's off the subject, but with Noni and colloidal silver, it cleared up in a few days. I assure you I'm not a wacko mad scientist, I just believe there is something to natural remedies and I love my furkids so much I don't want to see them suffer anymore. I have recently learned of a vet who has used Noni in over 2000 cases with miraculous result. Noni is distributed by Morinda, Inc. which is a network marketing mail order company. If you know of an independant distributor in your area, please at least get some information on it. If you don't, I have some I can send you. Good luck, Jill, and my best wishes and prayers for your little ones. For the Ferrets, Carin Riley Development Committee Chairperson South Florida Ferret Club and Rescue, Inc. 7.---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 21:51:28 -0400 From: "Michael F. Janke" Subject: More on Max (post) First I want to say thank you so much to everyone that has written to me with suggestions and prayers and well wishes for Max. Here's some things I know and also a few things about what's going on with Max at the moment. I have heard from a few here that an enlarged heart is not all that abormal in older, adrenal ferrets. I also heard this from a Dr. Burke, who I believe is a board certified Radiologist. He did an ultrasound on our Punky Doodle last year after an x-ray revealed an enlarged heart in him. Some time prior to that, he performed an ultrasound on something like 100 of our shelter's ferrets in order to develop some sort of a baseline to go by in future cases. He said that enlarged hearts in older male ferrets (not necessarily adrenal ferrets) seems pretty common. The thing that worried Max's vet is that his heart appears MUCH larger than any they have ever seen, and I'm sure they've seen a lot, since they care for our shelter's ferrets. Still, he's not showing any outward signs of heart troubles and his EKG was normal, so that's one sigh of relief. Nevertheless, they don't want to do any kind of exploratory until Max has been on Lasix and Enacard for at least a week and another x-ray indicates some improvement. So, right now poor Max is getting Lasix, Enacard, Baytril (we switched from Amoxy) and Torbutol shoved down him. Other than the straining and the blood in the urine (its still there every time), he seem relatively normal. Or at least as normal as a 5 1/2 year old ferret with adrenal disease can be. He eats and drinks well and pees puddles, so there's no blockage. It's just that he doesn't stop trying to pee after his bladder is empty. Poor guy tries so hard. He sleeps most of the time, but then I'm keeping him confined to his cage 99.9% of the time. He's not in any mood to play anyway and there's nothing wrong with lots of rest when you're ill. I feel so bad when I hear Max whimper a bit when he's straining to pee, but I do my best to be cheerful when I'm around him. It's not easy, but I don't want to send him any bad vibes. So, Max is holding his own right now and I'm just praying that his bladder will ease up on him a bit and give him some relief. Until then, the torbutol seems to help ( I believe it's a narcotic) and he sleeps soundly for hours at a time. Thanks for all your support and prayers guys. Max really appreciates it. For the ferrets, Mike ------------------------End of Adrenal List #42----------------------