From: Lynn McIntosh [faiml@uswest.net] Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 2:24 AM To: FAIMLanon; FAIML Cc: faiml@miamiferret.org Subject: FAIML #423; May 18, 2000 Ferret Adrenal/Insulinoma Mailing List (FAIML) #423; May 18, 2000 1. Urgent Post Please - Scooter's Glucose 2. Re: Urgent Post Please - Scooter's Glucose 3. Re: Urgent Post Please - Scooter's Glucose 4. Is it time to let go? 5. Surgery May 22; Need Advice 6. Pred belly 7. Weasel 3rd time adrenal please post 8. Buttercup is doing well 9. Re: Urgent Post - FAIML #422; May 17, 2000 (Toya) 10. Re: Urgent Post - FAIML #422; May 17, 2000 11. Adrenal ferret recovery (Toya) 12. Re: Urgent Post - FAIML #422; May 17, 2000 (Toya) 13. An update on Toya 14. Swollen Vulva: How long can she go? 15. Re: Flea products. 16. re: fleas FAIML #422; May 17, 2000 17. Fleas 18. Fleas The FERRET ADRENAL/INSULINOMA MAILING LIST (FAIML) is a group that's come together to share support and information about adrenal and insulinoma diseases. FAIML comes out in digest format three to six times per week, depending on the number of posts sent, and their surgency. FAIML information is the opinion, only, of subscribers, mostly ferret caretakers. It is not medical advice, comes with no guarantee of accuracy, and is not meant to replace the examination and medical oversight of a qualified veterinarian. If your ferret is sick or exhibiting signs of illness take your fur kid to the most ferret- experienced vet you can find! A ferret- experienced vet is one of the most important services you can provide to your ferret. TO POST: Write POST at the end of your subject heading (the more specific you can be in your subject heading, the better) and send to . URGENT POSTS: If you feel the message is urgent please mark it POST URGENT and I'll send it out to subscribers as soon as I can, then include the message in the next list. CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS: Please write POST ANONYMOUS after your subject heading if you don't want your address or last name published. SUBSCRIBE/UNSUBSCRIBE: Just use the one address for posts, subscription questions, requests, cancellations, comments, etc. The list is run by hand so just send me an email. ADRENAL/INSULINOMA WEBSITE: FAIML ARCHIVES/PHOTOS: Past FAIMLs are being archived, with a search feature, on Michael Janke's adrenal/insulinoma web site: . Michael is also kindly posting pictures of FAIML subscribers and the ferrets at this site in the FAIML Album. Check out his site for more info. PAM GREENE's FERRET FAQs: I suggest people read (and reread) Pamela Greene's Disease FAQ's on Insulin and Adrenal diseases, as they offer a good background. I forward them to all new subscribers, and will gladly send them upon request. I also send the "Disease Package", a file that tells how to get all six of Pamela Greene's FAQs on ferret diseases. Pam also has excellent FAQ's about general ferret care as well, and a link to these may be found on the FERRET CENTRAL web site: . THE FERRET MAILING LIST (FML): The FML has 3,000+ ferret-loving subscribers and the topic is simply ferrets, ferrets, and more ferrets. Moderated by Mr. Bill Gruber, it's a great source of ferret entertainment and information. Visit FERRET CENTRAL on the web (see paragraph above) for more info on the FML. To subscribe to the FML, send email to its moderator, Bill Gruber, at and ask to be added. You can also try subscribing automatically by sending email to with the command SUBSCRIBE FERRET in the body of the email. 1. Urgent Post Please - Scooter's Glucose From: "Mary Rogers" Date sent: Thu, 18 May 2000 11:13:10 -0500 MODERATOR'S NOTE: This was sent out on its own earlier today but is being included in the next list, as usual. Lynn Lynn, can you please post this today so I can get some answers quickly, Thanks! My Scooter "crashed" big time yesterday with a glucose of 23. Unfortunately the first sign. Of course I took him to my vet. Brought him home last night. He's still pretty lethargic, on pred twice a day, and fights when we force feed him. I'm hoping we can get enough food in him to get him over this hump! I should have the blood panel test back sometime today. He just had adrenal, spleen, and hair ball surgery in January. He's Scooter, the wonder ferret because of it. I've only had him since November of last year and he's probably around 4-ish. After the blood panel comes back we'll decide on surgery. Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated to get him better fast! I don't want to loose him!!!!!! Thanks, Mary and The 12 Munchkins mscritrs@aol.com (home e-mail address) 2. Re: Urgent Post Please - Scooter's Glucose From: "lynne wooldridge" Date sent: Thu, 18 May 2000 21:11:39 -0500 Mary, I have a few suggestions. (1) keep karo on hand, nearby in case you need it.(2) try feeding Scooter from your finger. Sometimes ferrets will take food that way. Are you feeding duck soup? You may want to try a simple mixture of A/D, chicken baby food and a little water, warmed slightly in the microwave. Stir carefully to mix in any "hot spots". (3) Don't panic. If you can get him to eat a little every three hours or so, you can help him stabilize his blood glucose level. There are other medications to try. My Dustie was having a dreadful time with insulinoma. He was taking pred twice a day (one half cc each time). It was not enough. We added diazoxide (1 cc twice a day) and it has helped so much. He is eating again, very little nausea, and he is interested in life again. The diazoxide is expensive, but worth it if it helps Dustie. Keep fresh water available for him, and be sure to add a bit to his duck soup. These are things that have helped with my Dustie, and I hope that they help Scooter!! Keeping you and Scooter in my thoughts, Lynne and Dustie in Austin, Texas 3. Re: Urgent Post Please - Scooter's Glucose From: "Melissa" Date sent: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:20:25 -0400 >From: "Mary Rogers" >Subject: Urgent Post Please - Scooter's Glucose >My Scooter "crashed" big time yesterday with a glucose of 23. Unfortunately >the first sign....He's still pretty lethargic, on pred twice a day, and fights >when we force feed him.... Whenever there's an initial blood sugar crash, my first thought is to check to see if the crash might be from the ferret not eating. I don't always assume it's insulinoma (though it may be that as well). I realize your ferret just had hairball surgery, but is it possible it has another hairball or a partial blockage from something else? Could it have ulcers? I'd look into these possibilities and try to rule them out first. It *could* be why your ferret is fighting against forced feeding. Hope things start looking up for this little one. -Melissa __________________________________ http://members.aol.com/NYCFerrets http://home.att.net/~The_Ferrets __________________________________ 4. Is it time to let go? From: "Susan D." Date sent: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:45:03 EDT Hi, I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. Oscar is old (age unknown). Had insulinoma surgery in Jan. Was like a new ferret. Now he's starting to go into these coma-like states where he's non- responsive. I haven't yet seen any seizing with it. This past Sunday he was like that all day. I was going to go ahead and have helped across the bridge, but I fed him baby food all day, water, and gave him some extra pred and the next day it was like nothing happened. I made Bob Church's chicken gravy the next day and fed him a lot of it. I know the tumors usually come back but I just didn't realize they'd come back this quick! Before the surgery, he was having seizures. Now it's these coma- like episodes. I don't know what to do from here though. He's on pred. Do I let him keep doing this? It is not any kind of quality life at all, but yet he doesn't apepar to be in pain. Do I just keep feeding him and giving him his pred? Last time he was at the vet for this, they were unable to get blood out of him. I have been reading through all the information I have gathered from ferret central and when I posted months before when he was having the seizures. >From what I'm reading, pred and special diets only work so long. So I guess I need help in determining "how long". When he comes out of these comas, he's perfectly fine and normal. I just don't know how long he's in them before I find him. But Sunday he was like that all day. Thank you for any advice or help you can provide. Susan Moderator's Note: Hi Susan. Wally goes into bad seizures now and we put dextrose, 50% solution, on his gums. This stops the really bad part of the seizure fairly quickly, then he's out of it for awhile (maybe five minutes), but eventually he comes around enough to give a little ferretvite or something sugary, then turkey baby food. I wouldn't be without it! Vets sometimes can't get blood from ferrets. It depends ont he vet, and the ferret. Our Wally has slightly low blood pressure, though. Our Wally just started having the really bad type of seizures, and it's really tough. We've increased the pred. again (he had surgery in December and has gone from .5 2x/day after surgery to 1.0 2x/day, plus we've added .1 of Proglycem. He's still slim though, having lost a pound post surgery (he was fat!). You might try adding Proglycem. Keep us posted! Lynn 5. Surgery May 22; Need Advice From: "SAM MANGHAM" Date sent: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:49:48 -0500 Hi, I have 2 sick ferrets that are both scheduled for surgery on Monday, May 22. One has the insulin problem and the other the adrenal problem. They are 4 & 6 years old. My question is how do I subscribe to your info about these problems, and I also want to try and fatten them up before surgery. My vet said no sugar - just protein. They now eat Mazurri ferret food but I would like to try and supplement. The insulinoma ferret goes down very quickly and I am now giving her pred as of today. I cannot find the ferret food "Totally Ferret" in my area (Little Rock, AR). If you have any suggestions to help stabilize that ferret I would appreciate it. Thanks, Dawn P.S. They both weigh under 2 lbs. 6. Pred belly From: "Thomas Osburn" Date sent: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:40:34 -0400 Is there anything that can be done for pred belly?. My Missy is so bloated and looks extremely uncomfortable. Her pred level is .3 two times a day along with proglycem. Does anyone know what makes her swell like this? Thanks so much! Mary 7. Weasel 3rd time adrenal please post From: "Holly Domanick" Date sent: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Hi Lynn & everyone. I am sad to say it looks like weasel is adrenal again. Her left was removed in June 98. Her right Dec.99. The right was complicated with the fact they had to remove a portion of her liver. She lost a lot of blood and it was touch and go for a day. I trust Dr. Marx and know she did everything humanly possible to get as much of the right as possible. She feels bad it is coming back so soon. Two weeks ago is when I noticed her vulva swelling and it looks like someone cut the end of her fur tail off with sissors. She is also starting to lick my arm again. This is how it started last time. She is very active and eats well. I know she has a strong will to live. With what she has gone through already. It is still in the early stages and I know I have some time before I have to make a decision. I pray I make the right one. I love this special angel! I don't know if it would be best to go with the lupron or another surgery. Dr. Marx said they will be getting a cryo surgery unit within the next cople of months. How many of you have gone through this 3 or more times? It's so hard to see them sick. Weasel is a MF female. 31/2 yrs.old. She never really acted sick or lost her energy with her other adrenals. She also just got over giardia ad clostidal enterotoxicosis(from drinking bottled water,I thought it was better for them;but it's NOT) My other twoferrets and cat had it also. They now get our tap water filtered through a pur water filter. At least I know where it comes from. Sorry this is so long. You all have helped me so much in the past. To Mary State College pfra shelter. I hope I can get off work the day of your open house. Thanks for your help. Eileen and her 3 special fur angels http://community.webtv.net/hjdom/WelcometoHollys http://community.webtv.net/hjdom/STARTREK 8. Buttercup is doing well From: "Clare Sebok" Date sent: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Hello Lynn and everyone, Buttercup had her surgery today, and she is doing very well. Dr. Weiss removed a large right adrenal tumor and her spleen. While Buttercup was having surgery, we sat in the waiting room and talked with Maggie Smith, whose ferret Squirrel also had surgery today. The conversation really helped us through the tense time while we waited to hear from Dr. Weiss. Buttercup recently got up and drank some water and ate some of her soup. I'm surprised at how bright her face looks only a few hours after surgery. I hope her recovery continues to go this well. This was Buttercup's third surgery; she's had one each year since 1998. Thanks to everyone for your advice and support. Clare, Bill, Buttercup, Bridgett, Bonnie, Charlie, Patrick, and Felix 9. Re: Urgent Post - FAIML #422; May 17, 2000 (Toya) From: "Melissa" Date sent: Thu, 18 May 2000 13:28:48 -0400 >1. Help, I think I need advice quickly--URGENT POST >From: "Lora Smith" >Date sent: Wed, 17 May 2000 00:36:49 -0500 Hi Lora, My answers are below: >....My >elderly parents have a female ferret--Toya-who is approx. 3 yrs old. She has >surgery about a month ago for an adrenal tumor on one side. ....after surgery >she does not seem to be eating. She was on the prednisone for 15 days......she >was nippy at first after surgery......She has lost considerable weight, she >looked poor with no hair anyway, but really does now. She has lately been >sleeping alot. She has not really eaten much......she has a greenish loose >stool. ...Her hair is starting to grow back by the way, so I feel the surgery >was successful..... Sounds to me like it was successful. She may need to go back on the pred or she may need some hormone replacement therapy for a little while. Was she put on any antibiotics after surgery? That might be another route to go. Regardless, it is *very*important that you get food into her. Would you consider taking her in to live with you for a bit so you could be sure she's getting fed? The best thing you could do is keep her on as normal a diet as possible so her system doesn't go haywire. Whatever food she normally eats, soak it in water so it gets mushy and gently hand feed her with a syringe at least 3 times a day. You may not need to hand feed her water since there will be water in the mush. Hand feeding may be neccesary for at least a couple of weeks. >He did say that it had grown around the artery, but got >most of it. Then it was the "more difficult" side. Though that shouldn't really make much of a difference if he got most of it. >I do not feel like there are any vets with very much ferret exp. in my >area. What is your area? Maybe some of us can reccomend a different vet. I wouldn't give up on her yet. She needs a lot of extra work and attention right now but I believe she can come through this fine (but I'm not a vet!). However, she won't make it if your parents just "hope for the best". -Melissa ________________________________ http://members.aol.com/NYCFerrets http://home.att.net/~The_Ferrets __________________________________ 10. Re: Urgent Post - FAIML #422; May 17, 2000 From: "Joyce Snyder" Date sent: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:22:29 -0400 (EDT) HI....so sorry to hear of the little one having such a problem....you said you had tried the ducksoup...not sure what you are using...I use a simple blend of l can canine/feine AD to l small jar of GERBERS STAGE 2 chichen baby food...mix that up in a container that you can seal and put in frig...when I make the small batches for feeding I use about 2-3 tablespoons of the food and warm in the microwave til warm like you would do with a baby...and add l small squirt of whipping cream to it...they like the taste plus it adds calories...sometimes it just takes work getting them to start eating...with mine I dab a little on their lips to let them get the taste of the food and then finger feed from he bowl....also there is a drug used for cats called CYPROHEPTADINE..that can be used in ferrets to stimulate appetite and it also increases the absorption of food...the doseage is in 4 mg tablets which are cut into quarters and you give one quarter table twice a day...I bought a pill splitter and crusher at Walgreens drug store....crush the pill and then I use my fingers to mash into a fine power and then put that in the palm of my hand...add a dollop of nutrical to it and scoop it up with my finger and they lick it right off...in just 2-3 days notice a HUGE increase in the appetite....the vet will have to call this in for you to the drugstore...it can be used at the same time that they are on the pred too what doseage is your pred....don't give up on the little one...it takes hours of patience to work with them after surgery..and some recover faster than others....if you have any questions please feel free to email me at my email address and I will be glad to talk with you about the little one. Joyce Snyder and the 8 fuzzies 11. Adrenal ferret recovery (Toya) From: Linda.Doran@att.net Date sent: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:44:34 +0000 Hi. I would like to respond to this urgent message. After one of my ferrets, Lucky Charm, had her adrenals removed, we put her on a daily dose of Florinef. It's kind of expensive -- I think I pay around $27 for a bottle of tablets at Wal-Mart -- but it's essential for some ferrets who no longer have any adrenals. I cut the little tablets in half, grind the portions with a pestle and mortar, and mix the powder with Ferretone or Nutrical and give it to her. She likes it and it keeps her mineral corticoids (did I spell that right?) at the essential level for survival. Linda 12. Re: Urgent Post - FAIML #422; May 17, 2000 (Toya) From: "sharon wagner" Date sent: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:19:01 -0400 (EDT) I have a 7 year old who had a lymph node removed, tail amputated, tumor from one adrenal gland and cost almost $500 but well worth it at the time. She still has a tumor or an adrenal gland that they cannot do because it is so close to vena cava that I could lose her so I chose to put it in god's hands. I remember when this first happened mine had green stools but it was due to change of diet. He had it done last September and I find him always sleeping but I think he runs at night. I remember I could not get him to eat so I tried gerber's baby food (Chicken and Turkey) for about a month along with sustacal and it is six months later and his hair is starting to come in finally but he now is always licking and gagging after licking himself. I know the feeling. I took him to my regular vet of 30 years (not a ferret vet) and she recommended another ultrasound and more surgery. I chose not to put him through it again and as long as he does not appear in pain, eating, I will put him in God's hands. This happened about two months ago and he is now starting to perk up again. It seems he changes with the weather and he has been on 1 mg prednisone once a day. I am not a vet, but try baby food or sustacal and see if it helps. I remember when I went through it I hurt probably more than he did. He is 7 years old and I am not going to pay $500 and may lose him anyway so I take one day at a time. At first everyday I thought I would find him asleep but he seems to be coming around now. I am sure if a doctor doesn't see your urgent message you can search the symptoms somewhere on this web site. When I was going through emotions of surgery or putting him to sleep I fearned alot just by searching this site. There isn't an answer I don't think that you can't find. My prayers are with you and hopefully a vet would be able to assist you better. I sure wish you well and hopefully someone more knowledgeble will answer you. 13. An update on Toya From: "Lora Smith" Date sent: Fri, 19 May 2000 00:50:18 -0500 Hi everyone, First I want to thank you all for you overwhelming responses. You all have helped more than you will ever know, what a wonderful group! After receiving several of your posts, I decided I was indeed right to be worried and called the vet and took her in. They gave her subq rehydration, he force fed her some food and sent her home on antibiotics. I talked frankly with my dad and told him how important it is going to be to feed her regularly until she is well. He was willing to learn so I taught him how and after only 1 day is doing much better. She was really dehydrated and looks so much better now. We are feeding her the Science diet a/d mixed with water and pedialyte. We are in Springfield, MO. I did finally find a ferret club here in town and they had a Dr list of recommendations and so I took her to one on the list. I think with persistence she will pull through. I will keep you all posted and again thank you all soooooo much:) Warm fuzzies, Lora 14. Swollen Vulva: How long can she go? From: "Derek Walker" Date sent: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:46:22 -0400 Sorry to hear about your news. Our female sable Dolly lived about a year with a swollen vulva. She was about 5 when she got it. She seemed happy and acted normal for most of the last year even though it looked really bad. During this time, she lost her hair and it grew back several times. During the last week or two, she quit eating and wouldn't do anything but sleep. She became very weak and dehydrated, so we put her to sleep. Good luck. Derek and Liz Walker 15. Re: Flea products. From: AFERRETVET@cs.com Date sent: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:35:41 EDT There are several good flea products that can be used on ferrets. Advantage (kitten size) can be used, and it works well. The disadvantage to Advantage is- it will wash off if you give them a bath. Frontline (cat size or spray) is another good flea product. Frontline is both water and bath proof. It will last 30 days. The Frontline spray is applied at one spray per pound. It can also be put into the ears for ear mites and is the most cost effective if you have several ferrets. Revolution is the new flea product. The kitten size is safe for ferrets. It also kills ear mites and prevents heartworms. The other pets in the house (dogs/ cats) have got to be treated to prevent fleas from coming into the house! If you already have fleas in the house: then spraying the house with a house flea spray that kills both flea adults and flea eggs is needed. In severe cases spraying the yard every 3 weeks is also needed. Fleas can become a nightmare, so treat all the pets if you are seeing fleas on your ferrets. Treat the yard and the house if you are seeing fleas in the house too. Jerry Murray,DVM 16. re: fleas FAIML #422; May 17, 2000 From: "Barbara Carlson" Date sent: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:46:31 -0400 > What advice do you have re: fleas on ferrets. I have used Advantage for > kittens per one vet. It is very short acting approx 1-2 wks. OF course, > prevention is the key but my kitties and dog bring them in. Any ideas for > safe treatment.? I like Frontline. It lasts for 1-3 months, is waterproof once it's dry and kills ticks (for 1 month) as well as fleas (for up to 3 months). I use 1 drop for small ferrets, 2 for medium and maybe 3 if he's really big with thick fur. My ferrets have had no reactions. The stuff is the same formula for dogs & cats and if you get the "large dog" one you can treat a number of ferrets with just one tube. I use a syringe with a needle and suck it into the syringe, then take the needle off and use the syringe to apply it to the skin at the back of the neck. --Barb-- 17. Fleas From: "Thomas Osburn" Date sent: Thu, 18 May 2000 15:47:19 -0400 Mary - in regards to your question about fleas. I live in Florida and we get them pretty bad here. I don't have any other animals to bring them in the house and my eight babies never go out because of fleas and mosquitoes. But my husband and myself manage to somehow carry them in the house on our socks or slacks. My vet recommends Advantage. I give them all .2cc on the back of the neck between the shoulder blades and it seems to work. Hopes this helps. Mary 18. fleas From: "Debbie Magerr" Date sent: Thu, 18 May 2000 12:26:08 -0700 I also used Advantage type drops on my ferret, just use 1/2 the dosage for kittens. It worked immediately, you need to use it on your other pets too! Debbie ----------------------- End of FAIML #423 -------------------------